METAWhy Do You Want To "Drop The T"?

submitted by [deleted] from self.LGBDropTheT

Right now we're a small group of people who fiercely believe that LGB and T need to be separated. We need to start acting in real life, no matter how big or small, and get our message out there. Wake up the rest of the world to the fact that LGB-alphabet-soup isn't us, will never be us, and it's not right how they're representing us. Hell, the TQ+ community has even isolated its own trans members (that's their problem, but it's certainly relevant).

Pro-TQ+ silenced the few of us remaining on Clayton's prior "DropTheT" sub, and since then, so very many more came forward in support. While we were forced to reconvene here suddenly, in our end-days on Reddit, we were 23K strong and growing by more than 1000 members each month. And there's nearly 2,000 of you here now!

That means there's so many more of us out there just waiting for direction, inspiration, a message of hope. They need to hear that they're not alone.

So talk now, here. Tell us your reasons why you think LGB needs to "Drop The T"

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[–]wendyokoopa1 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I know my reason why we need to kick the T out may seem stupid but I think it's valid. 1) Women can't even have dating preferences without someone some where saying calling us possibly transphobic. Sorry but people have dating preferences. Number 2: Women's sports and other biological female areas being hijacked constantly Yes Thankfully that trans lost the weightlifting in the olympics but sadly the real loser there was the female kicked out from HER competition her moment in the spot light. But nope gotta appease the trans and their fans or god help them they'll whinge.

[–]Rainmanslim 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

One thing I've learned since the TRAs took over the alphabet is that "justice" and "fairness" are just pointless buzzwords in their eyes to be deployed at their own convenience to get what they want.

5 years ago it was all about women women women, then after George Floyd it was all about black men black men black men, and now that's gone out of vogue now it's all trans trans trans. And anyone from the previous groups who doesn't immediately drop their own issues and focus on the new one get branded as "traitors" and turned on.

[–]wendyokoopa1 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yup. It's disgusting. Women are now losing so much to these disgusting perverted butt holes but nope that's suddenly OK. BTW it's not and I read on Twitter last night Surry UK dropped stonewall.

[–]Rainmanslim 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Good, the more people and places that drop stonewall the better. That place may have started out as an absolute net possitive for the lgbt community, but today they're causing a lot of long term damage.

[–]wendyokoopa1 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't disagree. They should have done harder gatekeeping.

[–]DimDroog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think they wanted to do harder gatekeeping, b/c Trans being oppressed= a money generating fund for them, if that makes sense.

Think about it: LGB people, at least in the West, are pretty much accepted.

They see this, and wonder where their next source of money is going to come from.

Mind you, they should have keep focusing on LGB issues, like homeless LGB, or their LGB sisters and brothers who are still murdered in other countries.

But that's not as glamorous is it?
It's too ugly, and it requires more work.

Frick them. Selfish and greedy.

[–]wendyokoopa1 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No argument here.

[–]clitoriana 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If it wasn't clear before this backlash to the BBC article, it should be now: they believe, against all common sense and morals, that their self-perception is more important than other people's sexual boundaries. Everything they do is to get more narcissistic supply, and they've used vicious harassment, shaming, sabotage, threats of suicide, and even violence in some cases to rope otherwise normal people into fighting for them. We've got thousands of sniveling COWARDS out there wringing their fingers over how this makes the poor transwomen feel, after lesbians finally got a voice in a major publication and were able to speak out about the coercion and homophobic assault perpetrated by trans-identified males. What happened to "believe survivors" and "believe women"? The majority of the sympathy and support is going to the predators. This is a monstrosity.

Drop the T, because they are far too likely to be homophobic rapists or sympathize with and enable homophobic rapists.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I wonder if this post would be better served by being a collection point for some of the better, definitive, sensible news, articles, books, etc. which have been coming out (yes, pun intended) in the last several months. That's the sort of thing that can be offered for others' consideration, and the fact that the tide is indeed turning a bit in some ways ought to make it easier for people to reconsider their fealty to this particular ideology. Unfortunately I'm writing this while I don't have time to grab the various links I am thinking of, but I see what you are hoping to do here and also the fact that nobody said anything.

I know a couple of us have attempted to warehouse some of this information on individual posts, but it's much harder to go back and find vs. a pinned post.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

We do have some resource information in our Wiki, which another user was awesome enough to write up for us originally (my apologies to that user, it was quite some time ago, so I don't recall who supplied it).

https://www.saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/wiki/lgborgs

I would love it if we could have three stickies. One for rules/announcements, one for "why drop the T" stories, and one for resources. But we're only allowed two, that's hard-coded into the site. So we defer deeper dives into research/information to the Wiki.

Do you think it would it be helpful to add a bullet point for resources in the quick links section of our Rules sticky?

https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7xce/rules_and_announcements

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Yeah, I do think that would be helpful. And not to put her on the spot, but one of our best collectors is /u/reluctant_commenter.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Hello! Sorry I'm late to this :) you are perfectly welcome to put me on the spot. The LGB Orgs one was also me! And it is now a little out of date, lol. I've been meaning to update that one.

Do you think it would it be helpful to add a bullet point for resources in the quick links section of our Rules sticky?

I agree with u/TumbleweedFireflies 's suggestion, I think that might be helpful! I am not trying to speak for the community when I make these lists, though; occasionally I've messed up and included a source that turned out later to be at least somewhat homophobic. But I would be happy to contribute to that sort of quick link resource.

I'm extremely busy IRL at the moment, but I should start to free up in a couple of weeks (I'm just hopping on today to let people know I'm alive, lol). In the meantime-- if you guys, or other people, have ideas for types of resources posts, I would be happy to hear them. A couple ones that I've heard people state interest in in the past:

  • A resource post about research on transitioning children-- including the Dutch Protocol study and beyond

  • Some sorta resource post about activist orgs-- I did one on news but didn't really include most activist orgs, just a few that put out articles regularly (like TransgenderTrend).

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm just hopping on today to let people know I'm alive,

Thank you, I was starting to wonder!

I think both of your interest areas are worthwhile. I think one of the more compelling things we could compile is airtight examples of the problems with letting male-bodied people into single-sex spaces for women (including actual sports injuries, now that there are plenty of examples), i.e. the thing that most of us (except for the more conservative, who were the ones who issued warnings) were not worried would happen. The hard evidence is overwhelming at this point and that's what our woke friends still don't want to believe. At least for some of them it will just be (like it was for me) because they don't know.

I probably have some saved articles to contribute, assuming I tagged them well enough to find easily. Sometimes it feels like we are drinking from a firehose of this type of news.

Another one: Examples of outspoken people being forced out of their jobs for stating basic facts.

If we can easily lay our hands on a vetted resource list then it'll be easier to cut to the chase with the ambivalent and uninformed.

I'm not volunteering you to do all of that but just thinking out loud. I am busy IRL at the moment too, but am constantly reminded we don't quite have a clearinghouse that would help people.

ETA: Examples of people speaking up to protect women's & LGB rights and actually succeeding. Because it's important that people who are learning about this not feel helpless after reading a deluge of bad news.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you, I was starting to wonder!

Sorry about that :) I've missed being able to spend time on this place. Nice to hear from you!

Sometimes it feels like we are drinking from a firehose of this type of news.

I could not agree more. It overwhelms me, sometimes, the amount of useful content there is to organize... it's a good problem to have, but still daunting, lol. Sometimes I go on a few-hours spree of organizing it, then am glad I did but remain overwhelmed at the amount of topics that ought to be talked about. There is probably a better way to go about it, hahaha.

On the list, then...

  • A resource post about research on transitioning children-- including the Dutch Protocol study and beyond

  • Some sorta resource post about activist orgs-- I did one on news but didn't really include most activist orgs, just a few that put out articles regularly (like TransgenderTrend).

  • airtight examples of the problems with letting male-bodied people into single-sex spaces for women (including actual sports injuries, now that there are plenty of examples)

  • Examples of outspoken people being forced out of their jobs for stating basic facts.

If we can easily lay our hands on a vetted resource list then it'll be easier to cut to the chase with the ambivalent and uninformed.

I'm not volunteering you to do all of that but just thinking out loud. I am busy IRL at the moment too, but am constantly reminded we don't quite have a clearinghouse that would help people.

Completely agree, I think it would be a huge help. You know... I've debated making a post about this, but I often can't help observing in the back of my head how exhausting being in this position is-- feeling 1. isolated because most people (in my area, anyway) act in socially aggressive towards anyone who doesn't "toe the party line" on transgender movement topics, 2. depressed/angry/helpless at seeing all these LGB and GNC people being pressured into transitioning, people who will likely end up regretting it, and 3. tired/overwhelmed at the idea of having to explain-- very, very diplomatically-- the harmful and bigoted actions being perpetrated by some people in the transgender movement. It's kind of a lot, lol. And I've definitely heard other people on this sub express those sentiments. Just what's on my mind today, I guess, I've been hearing a lot of TRA-happy dogmatism from some people IRL recently...

Anyway. Hoping to have a little more availability for this sort of organization project in the coming weeks. Maybe if I can just make a habit of doing 10 minutes a day or something, I'll get somewhere with it faster, lol.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

socially aggressive

Funny how all of this enabling and abuse can be summed up so neatly. The perpetrator who claims victimhood always distracts people with that red herring at least for a minute. The ones who don't snap out of it turn into aggressors themselves.

I am reading through all of this and hope to catch up at some point, but in the meantime, hey, if you have 10 minutes a day...big things are built one step at a time. I will definitely dig up some of my collected links and hand them off for further consideration when I have some more brain space.

A section about legal cases would be good to add.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

socially aggressive

Funny how all of this enabling and abuse can be summed up so neatly. The perpetrator who claims victimhood always distracts people with that red herring at least for a minute. The ones who don't snap out of it turn into aggressors themselves.

Yes, exactly, that does distract people. I find this pattern really hard to talk about, to put into words... it feels like walking through fog sometimes.

but in the meantime, hey, if you have 10 minutes a day...big things are built one step at a time.

You're completely right. :) Unfortunately I have obviously not done that the past few weeks, hahaha. Maybe even just 5min a day would be a good start.

A section about legal cases would be good to add.

Good idea!

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Of course it was you! How could any of us have forgotten, you're the bestest!

Making lists like these and gathering information together is SUPER helpful for us all, and you're not overstepping with your posts and/or gathering and sharing information.

Would you be willing to update our Wiki page of LGB Resources as you come across more? Us mods would very much appreciate help, and can give you permissions to edit that page.

No pressure to accept, and no hard feelings, if you don't want to. We do accept "no" as a complete answer :)

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Aw, thanks Tumbleweed!!! :)

Would you be willing to update our Wiki page of LGB Resources as you come across more? Us mods would very much appreciate help, and can give you permissions to edit that page.

Yeah, sure!! I would definitely be down. This doesn't require me to be a mod, right? I don't really feel ready for that (time-commitment-wise or otherwise), but I'll be posting more resources anyway, so I wouldn't mind just updating the Wiki. I can let you know when I update stuff, if you guys want to check through it and make sure it fits sub rules or whatever else.

One observation: the Wiki page is actually kinda hard to find; the sidebar doesn't link to it, AFAIK. I found the LGB Orgs page by clicking Review Our Mission Statement -> wiki page list -> lgborgs, which might be hard for users to find. Is the Wiki page supposed to be publicly accessible? It might make sense to link to it on the sidebar, or maybe on the "Why do you want to drop the T?" post, so that people could find it easier.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, you wouldn't be a mod, don't worry :) You would only have access to edit that particular Wiki page whenever you want to. And don't feel like you HAVE to update it either, like, this wouldn't become your responsibility. It's more like us thinking "hey, you're already making this awesome post, if you have the time, can you copy the text in there too".

the Wiki page is actually kinda hard to find; the sidebar doesn't link to it, AFAIK.

The sidebar doesn't link to it because we're running out of space to type anything else - unless SaidIt has changed something in last year, I think we only have about 20 characters left, LOL.

There's a Wiki tab at the top of the page in our header, where all the sort-by features are. Are you on mobile though? A limitation of using the mobile app is that it hasn't been worked on in a few years, and is missing features like linking to the Wiki, or a direct "message the mods"/ModMail link.

We've added those into our Rules/Announcements sticky post now though, after u/wafflegaff suggested it, so hopefully that will help!

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, you wouldn't be a mod, don't worry :) You would only have access to edit that particular Wiki page whenever you want to. And don't feel like you HAVE to update it either, like, this wouldn't become your responsibility. It's more like us thinking "hey, you're already making this awesome post, if you have the time, can you copy the text in there too".

Okay, then yeah that sounds great!! Thank you :) I'm not sure what sorts of other pages you guys would want added to the Wiki, but I'll likely make a post when I do a new topic, and then if you want me to copy it over, I'd be happy to.

The sidebar doesn't link to it because we're running out of space to type anything else - unless SaidIt has changed something in last year, I think we only have about 20 characters left, LOL.

Oh, that's frustrating.

There's a Wiki tab at the top of the page in our header, where all the sort-by features are.

Ah, okay, I totally missed that! Blended in against the background. Hopefully other people are more observant than me, lol.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Done, added the bullet point and it will be included on future updates. Thank you for the feedback/suggestion!

[–]MC-Chapati 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know it's been said before but I'm more than happy to add to this repeated mantra. Transgenderism simply contradicts reality, you cannot change your XX chromsomes into XY and vice versa. You cannot just flip flop from a man to a woman. I cannot say I am 20 years older than I actually am because that is biologically impossible.

And honestly, for those suffering through gender dysphoria, allowing "transitioning" (at least in my own opinion) is comparable to telling a schizophrenic that those voices are really there, or perhaps telling someone suffering from paranoia that there really are people in the walls.

That's why I wanna drop the T. The concept not only rejects reality, but does more harm than good.

[–]onenaivecanary 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me the main thing is that LGB people have different issues and priorities than trans people (regardless of how expansive or limited you want to view "trans" as a category). I care about continuing to live in a world that recognizes homosexuality and bisexuality as well-researched sexual orientations. My needs with respect to being a lesbian have very little to do with the medical establishment or changing the way other people view me on a daily basis. My main concerns are about access to employment, housing, and marriage for people who are gay and bisexual. I am not concerned with "mainstreaming queerness," which I see as a luxury issue that has very little pragmatic purpose beyond being a power trip for those involved in "queerness." I'm all for individual expression, I just think that if you are doing it to bait "normies" or generally disturb people, you should understand that you are basically bullying them.