all 26 comments

[–]Ladis_Wascheharuum 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In order of escalation:

  1. Just don't state pronouns, ignore the request if you can. (i.e. If asked for name and pronouns, just give your name, and move on.) If pressed, then move to the next step.

  2. "I don't feel comfortable doing that."

  3. "You're making me feel really uncomfortable. Please stop."

  4. Go for the outwoke route you mentioned. Explain that demanding pronouns can be traumatic and triggering for various people, including trans people who aren't out, gendervariant/genderflux/agender people, people who are questioning their own gender, etc.

[–]jim_steak 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this is the best route. I would also recommend not arguing about it at all, if it becomes a topic of debate you lose automatically because you're debating in an environment where your opposition has all the power. I would present it more like your personal boundary than an ideological/political belief, because boundaries are far less negotiable than political beliefs.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 17 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

You put #1 twice but they go together as long as you don't phrase it too rudely.

Don't refer to their policy as "woke" with a negative connotation or you might set off alarms that you engage in wrongthink. I find work email signatures to be annoying and cluttered already without adding more crap. Especially in a long email chain I hate when the body of each reply email is 1% of the signature. Ok if you want to send a formal email you can add it but it's just way too much when you need to sift through 30 emails.

Side note is I work for an Asian owned company in STEM and their attempt at gender diversity training was uncomfortable enough to make even me think the training itself was transphobic. They basically went straight to telling you not to post jokes about the MtF coworker's genitals in the break room. I was like ... ... ... WHAT?

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 14 insightful - 15 fun14 insightful - 14 fun15 insightful - 15 fun -  (1 child)

So where is the appropriate place to post jokes about coworkers genitals?

[–]fuck_reddit 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The wall of bathroom stalls /s

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 13 insightful - 4 fun13 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I find work email signatures to be annoying and cluttered already without adding more crap. Especially in a long email chain I hate when the body of each reply email is 1% of the signature. Ok if you want to send a formal email you can add it but it's just way too much when you need to sift through 30 emails.

Emails are ponderous in themselves. The headache of email threads in particular are why chat apps are taking over.

Side note is I work for an Asian owned company in STEM and their attempt at gender diversity training was uncomfortable enough to make even me think the training itself was transphobic. They basically went straight to telling you not to post jokes about the MtF coworker's genitals in the break room. I was like ... ... ... WHAT?

I kinda like how straight to the point they are though. It's like the more Asian-style directness trying to conform to the standards of contemporary Western woke dogma, with less tact but also lacking the pretenses, with less roundabout finessing and finagling.

"Making fun of their penis- Not allowed!"

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True but that would be true regardless of a person being trans or not. Sometimes I think they take some of their own training modules and try to direct translate them to English and it comes across as a bit much.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If absolutely forced, put I/me.

[–]strawberrysun 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Using that exact strategy, I once outwoked a freelance client who wanted me to set up his website so that pronoun stuff would be forced on all his customers and employees. He backed down so fast. It was pretty funny.

[–]JoeyJoeJoe 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I personally managed to change the policy for an industry online gathering by simply sending a DM to the organiser asking for pronouns to be made optional, as "not everyone is comfortable with that". One message, asteroid nudged to a new trajectory. Be proactive. Be early.

[–]SolRosenberg 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I’d just tell them it’s homophobic. Gay men fought for SAME SEX RIGHTS and the ideology that sex takes a back seat to gender is erasing that progress. That’s what i’d tell them, assuming you are homosexual.

[–]artetolife 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I prefer the last option because it's true. People with gender dysphoria don't like being made to misgender themselves.

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just say the question makes you uncomfortable. You don't need to go into why.

Or "I'm fe/male. People usually use fe/male pronouns to refer to me."

[–]szalinskikidproblematic androphile 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I'd choose 1, or a version of it. I'd keep it shorter and just say "I don't believe in pronoun sharing", or "I don't feel comfortable with the idea of pronoun sharing". That way, when they get triggered they can't claim that you were intentionally stirring things up. You didn't start the discussion. You could also say "I have male pronouns" or "I'm male". This is a middle way between not making a big scene and calmly making a point about biological sex, your believe that pronouns are sex based language.

[–]brialaisbae 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

My last job played this game. I told them I didn't feel comfortable having to state my identity for everyone and that I felt it would draw attention to how I presented, leaving them confused and annoyed.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Beautiful.

[–]verystablegenius 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i would choose number 1.

[–]tu_jode_mucho 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you just want to collect your pay in peace, then just ignore and outwoke if they push it further. HR will back off pretty quickly if you imply you might be a genderqueer. If you take a stand be prepared for the fallout--ostracized at work, passed over for raises/promotions, and potentially be let go.

Although I don't believe in the pronoun game, I don't think it's a big enough issue to warrant a fight at work for me. I'd rather troll HR and keep my job. However, my job before the big P was in office and several TW used the women's bathroom and I would have to go downstairs from the 33rd floor to avoid them. My manager once grilled me about being away from my desk for 15+ mins at a time several times throughout the day and I straight up told her "I have to go downstairs because men use the women's bathroom in this office". She dropped it immediately and never mentioned it again but I was fully prepared to lose my job since I feel much stronger about that issue.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Number 1. It's most likely a fad that will die in a few years; Things that are this meaningless usually do, and the energy the sheep put into it will morph into something else equally trite. Reserve the right to say, "I told you so." when it does collapse, by not going along with it now, for as long as it's not officially mandated.

[–]TovasshiDefinitely a house plant 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I tell them I don't have preferred pronouns, because it's true.

I'm a grown-up. I have more important things to care about than if someone calls me she/he or whatever when they're talking about me behind my back.

[–]soundsituationI myself was once a gay 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks, I'm making this my new default. Simple, neutral and sufficient.

[–]LizardDad 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"i'm [Name] and you can use the pronouns you think are appropriate"

But i also like the "they change with the phases of the moon" thing. Take it a step further and tell them they have to ask the moon

[–]Chocolatepudding 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Option 1 - how far are you prepared to take that? Almost better to make a silly stand (3) then a serious one that you back down from. Option 4 probably more sustainable but again how far to go with it!