all 35 comments

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with all of this, though not sure of this statement.

But, of course, when Republicans were given the chance to write the bill, they had to throw sexual orientation in, too

I think parents are also uncomfortable with the rainbow swathed classrooms, and teachers coming out to students in those early grades. All the sexuality stuff, like r rated books for teens, kids coming home saying they are biromantic demi sexual lesbians, when they haven't even gone through puberty, or had a first kiss.

I think we are in a better place culture wise so not discussing even lgb in those grades won't matter, ironically thanks to corporate pride where lgb(tq) is all over the place. Personally, I think they could have extended it to more grade levels, not talking about transition options for gnc youth only helps us.

There will be backlash for us but I don't know if this is it.

Edit: Stuff like this, people like this are what I mean.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ni4VHDke7f4

[–]dramasexual 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

My whole deal is do we need discussion of gender and sexual orientation in schools before third grade?

People talk about this like nobody can talk about gay people all the way through high school. It's literally only for very young children and I would argue sexuality discussions from a non-parent with that age group are inappropriate anyway.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

No, we don't NEED any discussion of sexuality with literal children (3-8 year olds). Most people aren't doing that though. What they're doing is discussing gender identity.

The groomer-coomers have been making this happen, and reasonable and rational people are speaking out about it finally.

Straight people were dismissed as "conservative nazis" along the way, so now LGB is trying to jump in and fight it. But we're also the scapegoats, both the aggressors and the unwilling victims. Because it was all done in our name.

So we're kinda fucked unless we just shut this down hard.

[–]dramasexual 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Is there a good way to shut this down that helps us, though? It's part of a bigger wave of coming backlash, but the bill itself looks reasonable enough that us jumping on board with the obviously hyperbolic opposition will just make us look unreasonable in the eyes of the sane straights.

I want to say the best way to fix this mess in general is to break the forced-teaming with the T, but how would we do that with this issue? Campaign for sexual orientation to be removed from the bill but leave gender identity? I feel like your average het would go "why do these people want to talk about fudgepacking with little kids so bad?"

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The problem is that the Republicans have played this game well. I would wager that it's not even mostly the LGBT themselves that are teaching this stuff. It's just that Education Departments these days are über-woke and churn out ideologically-committed functionaries to carry out The Agenda. And they have handed Republicans mountains of evidence of what they are doing. For that matter, Republicans are not wrong in saying that Education these days is dominated by the far-left.

It's going to be difficult to impossible to disentangle the LGB from the T on this. Hell, even a lot of gay people don't understand that the gender identity stuff is the real target of this bill.

I'm not sure that the smart thing to do isn't just to let the Republicans have this victory because, like you say, fighting it tooth and nail makes it look like we want to discuss gay sex with 5-9 year olds.

The real lesson we should learn is that you should never even give the appearance of going after people's kids. I was a teacher, and I knew NEVER to do that. It was just sheer arrogance that led teachers to teach this stuff to young kids, and we know that arrogance is a primary TRA trait.

[–]dramasexual 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah that's kind of where I'm leaning. We really don't need to be talking about sexual orientation with kids younger than 3rd grade anyway.

The real lesson we should learn is that you should never even give the appearance of going after people's kids. I was a teacher, and I knew NEVER to do that.

Remember when the SF gay men's chorus made that We're Coming for your Children song and then acted all shocked that people didn't find that a hilarious joke? Good times.

[–]JulienMayfair[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Remember when the SF gay men's chorus made that We're Coming for your Children song and then acted all shocked that people didn't find that a hilarious joke? Good times.

Don't forget "Drag Queen Story Hour," which was a bad idea to begin with, and then they didn't vet the people they had reading and ended up having drag queens with sex offender and other criminal histories reading in front of kids. That's just HANDING conservatives ways to bash us. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don’t see the problem with talking about families in primary schools, like families with two dads or families raised by two aunts. But this bill is silent about talking about families. A 6-year-old in Florida can still mention in class that his two gay uncles have guardianship over him until he’s 18 and talk about his uncles. Worst case scenario, the child might get asked what happened to his parents.

The child doesn’t need to know why his uncle is married to another man, and he also doesn’t need to know what the word gay means. I didn’t know what the word heterosexual meant until I was 12 or 13, and I was raised by a dad and a mam who are married to each other. This bill takes nothing from gay teenagers (gay children don’t exist) or the children of gay people.

[–]hufflepuff-poet 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

This bill takes nothing from gay teenagers (gay children don’t exist) or the children of gay people.

More and more, I'm starting to think this is true. I've had a handful of students (IN MY THIRD GRADE CLASS?!) "come out" to me. I try very hard to be a safe person for my students and listen to what they have to say, but I have a hard time believing they actually know their LGB at that age and not just kids who have alot of emotions, social struggles and a desire for connection/solid social group. Sexual orientation requires sexual desire and feelings and an ability to process that (even as clumsily as teens try, atleast they can fumble their way through a consensual sexual/romantic experience with peers; a child cannot)

I'm not out at school (with my students) and I'm single rn so no pictures of a gf at my desk. And I'm increasingly weary of ever mentioning my orientation to kids for fear that they'll see me as another example of a "queer person" and inspire more "trans kids" 🙄

Had one of my students decide to get a "boy haircut" (her own words) and start going by "Jack" after we read "Jackie to Jack" a story about a tomboy who becomes a trans kid. This girl struggles socially, academically and has home life issues, ofc she wants to escape her life. So obvious this is a social contagion, sadly the area I work in is Wokesville and we actually do teach the gender crap to 3rd graders (with options for parent opt out)

[–]dilsencySame-sex community 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

(gay children don’t exist)

More and more, I'm starting to think this is true. [...] Sexual orientation requires sexual desire and feelings and an ability to process that

While I didn't know I was gay at the time, or what gay was, I remember being very interested in the older boys when I was in 3rd grade (so around 8–9 I guess). And showing no such interest in the girls. I don't think sexual desire is the only component of being same-sex attracted, all I wanted was a hug.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was drawn to boys before puberty as well. Not in a sexual way, obviously, but not in a just friend way.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is a good point. There are indicators of what sexual orientation a child would have when he or she grows up. When I was a small boy, I preferred sitting on my dad's lap than my mam's lap, and I stopped sitting on my mam years before I stopped sitting on my dad. But I was closer to my mam because she stayed at home and also took my grievances more seriously than dad did. Also when I was small, I liked being picked up and carried by my uncles and male older cousins, than by my aunts and female older cousins.

When I was child and we had guests come over, I got more attention from female guests than from male guests. But if a female guest ignored me, I ignored her as well. I was close to a lot of my aunts and older female cousins, but those women made a lot of effort to bond with me, so they easily won me over. Male guests would also seek my attention, but they didn’t have to. An uncle or older male cousin would visit the house and walk right pass me to talk to my dad or my mam, and I would follow him and sit next to him. He’d let me sit on his knee but he still focused on my dad or mam and otherwise ignored me. Which was still fine by me. I could remember being five or six and my aunt and uncle coming over to visit my parents. I played with and talked to my aunt, but I was leaning towards her while I was sitting on my uncle's knee, and my uncle was talking to my parents.

Maybe my parents knew I was gay all along.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Children have no sexual orientations whatsoever. They’re not gay, not bi, not straight. They simply cannot process sexual feelings or desires. They also have a shallow understanding of the differences between the sexes. It makes sense that groomers use the LGBT movement to prey on children, so that liberals won’t have a clue what is happening and will think that anyone speaking up against it is a homophobe.

I’m glad that parents can at least opt their out of these insidious lessons. But they should not be taught at all. No wonder you don’t want to come out to your pupils. It will confuse them. Which is incredibly sad, because before kids did not care about this stuff, but now they do but they cannot process it because woke activists have made this confusing on purpose.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Holy shit Julien, you weren't kidding! I just saw this post:

https://old.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/te4hgg/what_do_you_think_about_the_florida_sexual

For what it's worth, I use RES and I tag users as TQ+ and non-LGB supporters. Comments are lighting up with my tags. It's almost exclusively the same 5 or so users chastising gay men, but AGB is being hit hard and heavy with this topic by people I haven't tagged yet too. It feels like propaganda bots.

The amount of denial from gay bros is worrisome. As of the time of my reading, they're focusing on the old religious persecution and blaming conservatives overall, and not recognizing that the problem is "gender" and how it transcends everything. Average users are washing their hands and ignoring that it's literal children who are being impacted.

It's scary the brainwashing. So many average users are just going with "I'm gay, this mentions gay negatively, must be bad" without any further look. And things like this are upvoted:

No one is out there discussing sex with children.

Nobody’s saying anything about talking about sex with kids.

Dont you think its hysterical to think talking to kids about sexuality must 100% mean they are being taught exactly about sex?

These idiots are totally brainwashed into thinking that 3-8 year old kids aren't influenced by authority figures, and neither were they.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

they're focusing on the old religious persecution and blaming conservatives overall

they are stuck in the past, fighting the old enemies, because thats an easy cash cow. Can't exactly blame it on own community, can you? Just look at the link in my comment above.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most people on AGB listen to CNN, MSNBC, Vice or Buzzfeed and treat these sites like they are gospel. They also have this hero/villain complex, where they are the heroes and they never do anything wrong. They refuse to acknowledge that there are bad faith actors on their own side for this reason.

[–]chazzstrong 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's essentially an anti-groomer law, and I'm not shocked at all to see who and what types of people are arguing FOR it. I don't want to add another dollar to the 'Alex Jones was Right' jar, but I'm starting to actually believe our entire world is ran by degenerate pedophiles. Maybe even lizard people.

The thing I'm seeing is people keep bringing up 'republican' or 'right wing' hating gays. I can't deny there's a fairly big subset of homophobia on the right, mostly due to incestuous southern white people still doing their song and dance, but the vast majority are against this because they don't want ANY sexuality being taught to their kids at that age straight or otherwise. Parents just want to raise their kids their own way, and not have to worry about some predator teacher grooming their kid into some trans sex object. This is one of the simplest straight-forward bills we've seen in some time...like it's so EASY to read it and find out exactly what it's for, so the outrage is just the reactionary victim squad doing what their masters are telling them to do: fight this bill. It reminds me of CNN when the big wikileaks thing happened telling their viewers that they shouldn't read the documents, but rely on CNN to read them and tell them the important bits.

Half our country, our society, no longer believe in free thought or expression. They are fully content to just lay down and let big government provide while they live in excess and privilege. I am so close to the point of just moving out into the woods and cutting off all contact with Humanity.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You’re not alone. I’m starting to think that the world is run by criminals. Which is why I hold a lot of antipathy towards politicians and journalists in general. I still think that a lot of conspiracy theorists are just a bunch of kooks who need a hobby, but I suppose I am better at empathising with them than I was five years ago, because some - and I mean some of the things they are saying are turning out to be true or somewhat true.

The media has had it out for Florida since 2020. Ron DeSantis locked the state down for two weeks, then opened everything back up and refused to implement vaccine mandates or mask mandates at the state level. Whether you agree with how DeSantis handled Covid or not, his actions made him enemy #1 of most of the legacy media and nearly all of Reddit until a few weeks ago; now he’s enemy #2. The media hates Ron DeSantis. If this bill was passed in the exact same form in another state, there would not be as much hysteria from the media. And yes, CNN is terrible.

Half our country, our society, no longer believe in free thought or expression.

Sadly, it’s not just America. Most people in most western countries have this sentiment where censorship is good. It’s becoming increasingly pervasive here in Ireland as well. The only countries where most people support freedom are South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and maybe a few other countries. And how old must you be to become transgender in those countries? 18.

[–]SolRosenberg 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Exactly! I had to leave that sub. It was just disappointing most can’t see. Unfortunately for me I live in Florida and so do most of my friends so i get to witness the meltdowns in my Instagram feed/stories. I just bite my tongue tho.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It must be interesting living in Florida, seeing what is going on and seeing how people from outside the state perceive your state.

[–]CleverFoolOfEarth 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Also, gators everywhere.

[–]SolRosenberg 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

yep but they don't mess with you. Just need to keep small dogs at a distance.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They make weird noises though.

[–]SolRosenberg 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's been something like that over the last 2 years. If a non-floridan listens to you news you'd think i was a death camp here with piles of bodies. In actuality it's been close to pre-covid normal for sometime now and everyone here is pretty happy.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’ve heard people from Florida over the past two years saying that they weren’t doing too bad with Covid despite not locking down nor implementing mask or Covid mandates, although some cities did. And Florida has a large elderly population. There were still Covid-related deaths, but no worse than New York or other states with a comparable population. The state has also seen a lot of inward migration from other states. Which is probably why the media is saying a lot of negative things about Florida: the journalists want to move to Florida before the houses get too expensive.

[–]SolRosenberg 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All that is accurate. The media also shits on Florida because they hate Desantis too (while kissing Cuomos taint the whole time).

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cuomo put Covid patients in nursing homes. Even now the media is not talking about that.

[–]fuck_reddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My bf and I met one of his exes that lives in FL and even he thought florida was a death camp because of COVID.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve been saying it ever since I came on this subreddit in 2019. r/AskGayBros is not an oasis of intelligence within the LGB community of Reddit. The men there might be upfront about their right to say no to transgender people, but that is the only thing the users of that subreddit are clued in on. Like how a broken clock is right twice a day.

The people on that subreddit tie their sexual orientations to their personalities. Any criticism against the LGBT community, doesn’t matter how reasonable it is, is taken as a personal attack by most people on that sub. Criticise surrogacy? Downvoted. Highlight the pervasiveness of kinks at gay pride parades? Downvoted. In fact, while the sub may be against bullying homosexuals into having sex with transgender people, the sub still defends the idea of letting children transition to the opposite sex and the existence of pretend gender identities. You get downvoted for saying that there are only two genders, or for saying that you must be over 18 to get a sex change.

The mentality of that subreddit is trapped in the 2000s decade. Trump is a terrible president for a myriad of different reasons, but he is definitely not homophobic. You will get downvoted for pointing that out on AGB. That sub acts like every Republican is a homophobic vampire out to prey on homosexuals and bisexuals, even though some Republicans support gay marriage. The UK Conservative Party also gets accused of homophobia by AGB, even though the Tories brought gay marriage to England and Wales in 2013. I made a comment indicating support for the Tories back in 2016, and a commenter called me mentally ill. He got upvoted by the way. Now, I know that the Tories are a terrible party and I would never vote for them if I was British, but the party stopped being homophobic years and years ago. And you are allowed to support parties or politicians even if other people disagree with you.

And it’s not just LGBT stuff. That AGB is a liberal echo chamber in virtually every topic. You get downvoted for pointing out that Islam is just as homophobic as Christianity. You get downvoted if you oppose sex education in primary schools. You get downvoted if you criticise the European Union. You get downvoted if you provide alternative solutions to America's healthcare or college crises besides the solutions they promote. You get downvoted if you advocate freedom of speech. No dissent is allowed on that sub. You don’t get banned, but you do get downvoted and get called a horrible person.

The men and boys on that sub are brainwashed by neoliberal and woke media outlets. It doesn’t surprise me that they are angry about the bill in Florida, which in my opinion, doesn’t go far enough.

[–]ChunkeeguyTeam T*RF Fuck Yeah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Spot on.

[–]stunaep 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I disagree. Children are bombarded by heterosexual messaging non-stop, so simply informing them that there is such a thing as gay or lesbian is helpful for gay and lesbian children. "Children shouldn't know anything about sexuality" well they do. Heterosexual sexuality. And they will continue to be bombarded with such messaging and exposed to heterosexuality. So now we're going to make it illegal to learn that being gay is a thing? Everyone's acting like they're planning on playing gay porn over the projector. No, homosexuality is simply going to be given a tiny fraction of the attention that heterosexuality is given in these children's lives and education, and it will be helpful for homosexual children.

Yes, the trans kids issue did spark this, but Republicans are being homophobic by specifically excluding sexual orientation as well.

[–]MyLongestJourney 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was inevitable,since queer activists took over LGBT orgs. One good thing that might come out of this,is that perhaps more LGBs will distance themselves from the TQs and form their our groups.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hopefully we will form our own groups before it’s too late to reverse the damage to our reputation.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I checked the AGB thread and the caliber of the discussion was unsurprisingly not very high, which is generally the case for virtually every lay person discussing legal issues. Most people outsource their thinking to whatever their media outlet of choice is and treat it like a team sport. This is because most people have little concept of how laws work and do not look at the statute and the legislative history or at least a rigorously cited analysis. Fortunately or unfortunately, this is my trade, and I do have this skillset. I admittedly haven't looked into this law yet, but will hopefully be able to do so soon and perhaps will write up my own analysis.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What you’ve said is on point. Most people are lazy, so they let journalists do their thinking for them. Which is how democratic countries end up becoming dictatorships.