DiscussionThat feeling when a TRA you don't trust tries to befriend you out of the blue

submitted by wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. from self.LGBDropTheT

Recently a MTF I distantly know through a social circle reached out to befriend me personally since I'd not been around that group for a few months. While that would otherwise be cool, instead of feeling safe to respond I'm wary, because I already did some due diligence on this one and know they're a TRA.

Plus they wanted to play up our sisterhood vibes as a selling point and I'm rather not feeling it, for obvious reasons. I already know how fast they'll label someone a TERF for having boundaries.

Not requesting advice, but lay it on me if you have some. Other than avoid. Unfortunately the means they used to contact me would show that the message had been received, so I can't really play dumb.

Just not sure I am in the mood for the high risk that comes with this and don't think I can fake the "oh yeah, we're totally sisters" bullcrap. This one seems like an AGP a bit as well.

ETA: Bonus points for trying to force their way into a nudity-allowing woman-only space and claiming transphobia when told no some years ago. This is one of those TRAs who pretends they don't know why women are uncomfortable with seeing male genitalia in a female-only space.

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[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's not worth it. Even if you try to remain neutral he'll see you aren't 100% supportive and will keep trying to bait you into arguments so he can accuse you of transphobia.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, this sort of entitled person (TRA or otherwise) is just a trap waiting to happen. It's so dumb how they sabotage themselves. It's not that hard not to be a creep.

Besides which I don't want to talk or think about TQ+ things the vast majority of the time and especially not at random times dictated by someone else.

[–]julesburm1891 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

This definitely isn’t advice I frequently give, but just ghost him. If you accept this guy’s already creepy advances, it’s a time bomb until you do something innocuous that’ll get you labeled a terf. (By creepy I mean, who rolls into someone’s DMs like “hey since we’re both women we should be friends?” That’s weird.) If you politely decline, no matter the reason given, you’re probably going to get called a terf and that’ll get back to your other friends. Just ignore this guy and carry on.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that's really it. If you engage then they'll come up with a problem for you eventually.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t have any advice for you in relation to your predicament. Except to ignore this fella. That’s all I’ve got. Of course, I’m assuming you don’t have any mutual friends and you don’t go to the places he goes to. Hopefully he loses interest quickly, but it is alarming that he has contacted you after months of no contact, because clearly he wants something from you.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah I'm not thrilled. The risk of a random encounter is close to zero though we know some of the same people, but yeah, this is a little weird from someone I hardly ever interacted with in that social circle as it was. Sucks to look sideways at someone but this one has put their attitudes on display publicly and we all know what these particular attitudes portend. I can think of a few MTF folks I would be happy to chat or hang out with (and have in recent years), but this is not one of them. Not because they are necessarily a terrible person in other ways (I wouldn't know), but because the odds of getting roped into a boundary-requiring situation which results in some sort of public lying about me being a transphobe are just too high. Responding to this is just asking for trouble.

I'm definitely a creep-phobe and this one has always struck me as a bit of a creep.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Don’t respond to him. If you rarely interact with him, there’s no need to reply. Anyone who believes his side without listening to yours can be dropped and replaced by new friends and acquaintances.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed, and I don't even have a "side" yet since we haven't interacted personally, just via group activities. This is the first direct personal contact.

[–]Mermer 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Have a FTM "friend" she seemed to like me a lot and there wouldn't be a problem... If she wasn't trans. When it got to the point the friend group (especially my best friend) started calling her by a male name and pronounce I just stopped referring to her all together. Stoped talking about her or If nessesary, avoided pronounce at all cost. Nothing much to add here, I truly feel sorry for her. It's clear she wants to escape womanhood but she will only hurt her body in the meaningless process. I can't say a word tho. Plus it's so clear no one actually buys into this but they have to for politics sake. I can see the exhaustion on my bsf's face whenever she talks about her and has to use the "correct" references or when she forced herself to talk about Demi Lovato as a "they" (big eye roll). Ugh I'm so done with all this I wished it stopped.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's like we're all collectively having to not tell someone that they have something stuck in their teeth.

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think I just wouldn't respond. He might try to put up a stink about you not responding but if you start talking to him out of a sense of obligation he'll probably just find a reason to label you a TERF at some point, like you said. If he's going to probably cause trouble for you either way you might as well save the time that would be wasted talking to him.

I wonder, does he know you're bi? Could that be the reason why he randomly reached out to you like this? If he knows you're bi then maybe he wants some sort of "kWeEr SiStErHoOd" with you? Or if he's one of "those" TRAs who refuses to date straight women, maybe he sees you as a potential romantic interest, as a "fellow WLW"? I'd definitely be very wary here as well.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wonder, does he know you're bi?

I am wondering this as well. It's conceivable that the couple of mutual friends we have could have outed me though I made clear why I wasn't out in that group of people, but I later had to back away from one of the ones I'd trusted with that info because they turned out to be a colossal ass in other ways. So, yeah. There's a slim chance they know. I didn't pick up any hitting-on-me vibes but who knows.

They'd probably try to find out at some point anyway and then it would be an issue, most likely, even if they don't already know.

[–]MarkJeffersonRaga Shave 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Even though the message has visibly been received, ignoring him still seems like the best option for now. Perhaps he'll move on to other people(yeah it still seems kinda bad but you gotta protect yourself).

So ignore until you can't ignore anymore and then if need be grey rock him hard and maybe he'll lose interest.

Hope it needn't go beyond that.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Me too. These people hunt the world for a stage on which to jump and play out their victim role. I'm gonna make sure that any "stage" I represent is well-greased.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlNe1adCP8qY7Ti/giphy.gif

[–]MarkJeffersonRaga Shave 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LOL ouch

[–]lunarstrain 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you're looking for a suggestion other than ignore him, I'd respond but make myself seem unavailable in some way, whether it be emotionally or temporally. If he responds to you after that, just don't read it.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, it'll be something like this.

[–]HelloMomo 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The basic options I see are:

  1. Ghost
  2. Make up a polite excuse for why not
  3. Say no. You don't have to really spell out why, but something like, "No thanks, I'm not really interested in hanging out, thanks."

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Number 3 is, of course, just asking for a "WhY NOt, ARe yOu tRAnsPHOBIC?!!?!?111"

I'll probably have to reply but after an unrewarding, long delay.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It sounds like a total ignore carries some risk you'd rather not take on. The best approach in this case is light and superficial engagement. Enough to convey plausible deniability but insufficient to kindle a true friendship.

This is actually an art worth practicing, it has helped me enormously in life.

[–]MBMayfair 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yeah, even though my gut reaction is "ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!", if totally ignoring him will cause this creep to try to engage further, I think IridescentAnaconda's approach is best. Just as totally noncommittal a response as possible. And also use Athelhilda4's idea too, maybe briefly mentioning how busy you are. If he contacts you again, make your reply even shorter. After that, ignore him.

I wonder too if he's contacting you because he somehow found out you're bi, and so many of the trans crowd think for some reason that bisexuals should be so much more able to be interested in them. 🙄 Tread carefully, but you got this.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Hi! Great to hear from you. Hope you're doing well!

Blah blah blah we should hang together I've always thought you were cool and blah blah blah trans rights blah blah my pronouns blah blah blah TERFs blah blah blah Harry Potter blah blah stunning brave blah blah We really should hang together.

One week later: Oh gosh, what a week I've had, yes that's so interesting, gotta go!

Rinse, repeat. It may take several iterations but eventually he'll find some other victim.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, exactly.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, there's some concern here that I've been sniffed out somehow despite not openly sharing that info in that group.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wonder too if he's contacting you because he somehow found out you're bi, and so many of the trans crowd think for some reason that bisexuals should be so much more able to be interested in them.

Yeah, that's true enough, in both senses of "interested": finding them to be kindred spirits somehow... and finding them fuckable. (Indeed, being obligated to fuck them, as per the standard transologist line aimed at bisexuals: "well, YOU like BOTH, so you have no excuse for not being attracted to trans people!1!")

This seems to be the result of their misunderstanding bisexuality as something other than a sexual orientation. Which allows them to write in the definition that best serves their purposes. Usually something along the lines of either our being indifferent to biological sex (so all that we notice about anyone is "gender"), or being this kind of indiscriminately-accepting affirmation-blob who loves EVERYONE (like Jesus).

I also suspect that the vulnerability of bisexuals as a group (largely invisible, etc.) makes us targets for these exploitation-specialists: we're prone to believing these things ourselves... and not being much good at self-defense even if we don't.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, this is a useful tactic and the one I'm likely to deploy.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The safest route is to not engage at all. What do you think is the worst thing that could realistically happen if you didn’t respond? People don’t respond to other people all the time. That’s just life. Everyone is busy with their own lives. If you don’t respond and you see this person later and they call you out for not responding, it’s easy to say, “Oh sorry I totally forgot you messaged me. I was busy with X and got distracted by Y. How are you?” And then just have a brief grey rock-y small talk interaction where you share nothing about yourself, say “glad to hear you’re well” and give an excuse of having to be somewhere else/do something else to extricate yourself from the interaction quickly.

Another option is to act like you’re very preoccupied in your life with something either dreadfully boring or unpleasant such that they don’t want to talk with you. A tooth infection. Chronic joint pain. Your dog has an incontinence problem and you wouldn’t believe all of the things you own that Fido has shit all over. So now you’re constantly replacing furniture and blankets and carpets because you can’t remove the poo stains and it’s taking over your life. You keep taking Fido to various vets and they can’t figure out why Fido has such loose bowels and putrid shits. You’ve tried changing his food but that just resulted in flatulence problems.

People like this want validation so if you make yourself appear to be an unlikely source of it, they’ll look for an easier target.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL that would all be funny and also generate a lot of nonsense gossip so I think I'll go with boring or the light-but-meaningless approach you mentioned.

I definitely have cover to claim to be overwhelmed and busy though. That's an easy one.

What do you think is the worst think that could realistically happen if you didn’t respond?

Once in a while I go the "give them nothing" route because I know they'll grab onto anything I do or say to try to become a victim. I do hope it drives them bonkers that they can only be seen to be fighting with themselves when they are simply ghosted. That's the point. What are they going to do, whine that I'm not talking? When we have no reason to be talking? That can only make them look bad.

[–]censorshipment 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You should look into using third-party apps, if you use an Android device, so you can have more privacy. For example: instead of using the Instagram app from Google Play, I use Instapro which allows me to disable Seen and Typing (and View Stories) so no one knows I read their DMs nor watched their Stories.

I do the same on my Samsung phone... disabled Read and Typing. Disable Typing in case you ever start to reply but change your mind... the person won't see that and ask "what were you gonna say?" (I've been asked this shit before lol)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Handy tips, thank you.

[–]Athelhilda4Questioning 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Tell them you’re busy with work/family/other friends/whatever and don’t have time to hang out. You haven’t seen that particular friend group for awhile, so it seems like a reasonable excuse.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup. I faded out of that group last year so they're a little slow on the uptake to be caring now.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

tell him to meet you in a public place and show up in a posie parker women t shirt, with lgba pin.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or maybe just a T-shirt with an illustration of the female reproductive system on it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Hey! I missed seeing this post when you first made it, but how are things now?

Not gonna write out advice (unless you want me to!) not only because I'm late but because I see you already got some great thoughtful comments. :) Would definitely recommend Unseen for Facebook Messenger if you haven't heard of it, though. Got sick of having people passive aggressively ping me because I hadn't responded yet, lol. Off-topic but would also recommend this extension that shows Youtube dislikes if you haven't seen it already; it's not perfect, but it's way better than nothing.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Hey (thank you for those recommendations, by the way—I'm not going to look it up right now but I recall it not being possible for a non-friend on FB to see that you read their message, so I might be safe that way already in this case). I have not responded yet. Feeling a little sad about that, but as we discussed, there are other ways to feel a lot sadder that are baked into the attitude this person has displayed elsewhere. So I guess no news is good news for the moment—they haven't contacted me a second time so far.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So I guess no news is good news for the moment—they haven't contacted me a second time so far.

Glad to hear that! I hear you, regarding the sad feelings. I think sometimes about all the potential friendships, or current friendships, that I could've had or had be much closer with people I know IRL-- if it weren't for their intolerant beliefs about sex and sexual orientation.

Hope you're doing well otherwise. :)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm hanging in there! I hope you are too.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I am! Glad to hear from you :)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi.[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah sorry about being MIA, I usually use one particular browser with SaidIt and then I loaded that one up with 200 tabs of stuff that I am using on an ongoing basis, and relaunching it kept being obnoxious just to check social sites, so now I switch between...well four browsers at this point. Finally put SaidIt on one of the unburdened ones.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nothing to apologize for! I just miss seeing you around :) I say after an unintended 2-week break, lol. I hear you on tabs, I am also a tab hoarder haha.