LifestyleA think a friend of mine is trying to convince me that trans people are "fine"

submitted by [deleted] from self.LGBDropTheT

So I got a friend who's pretty trans friendly to my chagrin but what can I do when so much of the (supposed) LGB people are into that shit. She's the type of "lesbian" that says that she doesn't mind "dicks" on "feminine presenting people". She never dated a transwoman tho, and only had relationships with average women. But whatever. Thing is, I told her I wasn't comfortable with the trans thing, the TQ+ thing. She knows it. We had discussions about it, we agreed that our opinions over the topic was different. But for a couple of times now, she's making me hang out with her trans friends, or trans people she knows. The last time she told me she was proud of me because "I was open minded" enough to "use the right pronouns" for a gal that uses he/him. We were hanging out and supposed to have a good time, not fight over pronouns. But she's making me hang out with her (the he/him chick) again and I'm just... I don't know. I don't want to be paranoid but I think she's trying to make me "realize that they're good people". But that won't work. I don't think the he/him chick is a bad person, I just think that's really dumb and regressive to play that ideology game on top of being unfair. I don't want to lose people over that fucking ideology every month or so... I already have an hard time connecting with other people into my hobbies (TVshows/animes/movies etc) because they're fucking insane and so deep into that trans bullshit... So what should I do ? Just play pretend, or die alone at this point.

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[–]TovasshiDefinitely a house plant 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You can clarify with your friend that you don't think their bad people, you just don't believe in their nonsense in the same way you don't think religious people are all bad, you just believe in their doctrine

[–]HelloMomo 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This. What individual character of trans-identified people is not the issue. It's about whether their ideology is coherent and defensible, and whether it infringes on the rights of other people.

This he/him chick could be the nicest person in the world, and still be wrong. But "wrong" as in "factually incorrect," not "immoral."

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She won't hear it. She doesn't really believe I think the way I think. Or she just doesn't want to. I remembered that, I once told her that JK Rowling was right and that it would make me a terf by LGBTQ+ supporters definition, she shaked her head in disbelief and told me that it wasn't true. That I wasn't like that. She doesn't want me to be that.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Just play pretend or die alone at this point.

You don’t have to do either. You can find other people to hang out with. But in the mean time, just hide your power levels unless you’re around people who agree with you on this issue.

I’m sure that woman your friend wants you to hang out with is a nice person, but she’s not all there mentally. Just occupy your time with meeting new people who understand reality, and developing new skills that make you more valuable and harder to cancel.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am not very social, I don't meet new people often or go out. I'm bad at social interactions or keeping relationships.

What kind of skills ?

[–]szalinskikidproblematic androphile 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I believe there is more to a friendship than just one thing you both like, or one aspect of your characters you both share. And I generally find it a desirable goal nowadays for people to again be able to remain friends even though their opinions regarding some topics are polar opposites. I genuinely hope this is that kind of friendship for you.

But just based on your text, without any background information or knowing you and your friend, it seems like you two are "tolerating" each other. Which sounds straining, to be honest. You have to decide if the basis of your friendship is solid enough to warrant this back and forth. She's obviously not seeing the world the way you do. That's normal but when it comes to a cultish believe like trans ideology, I'd find it hard to even talk about everyday stuff. Because in the end, she believes in gender identity, sexist stereotypes, compelled speech, homosexuals=genital fetishists, male lesbians and so on and so on. At least, that comes with it, even if she doesn't realize that. She must be a damn good friend otherwise for you to put up with this.

I think, the least she could do is to stop the "love-bombing" the moment you do something that she deems "right". That's conditioning. It's belittling and a constant reminder that regardless of every nice things she says, she's always thinking you're doing something wrong. Doesn't hat remind you of all the other "well-meaning" homophobes we've encountered in our lives? "Love the sinner, hate the sin". That's how she sounds like.

Maybe talk about that with her. Make it clear that if she values your friendship, she has to accept that she's believing in something that you do not believe in, and vice versa. No more attempts to convert you. She has to respect that. You're probably not sending her Magdalen Berns videos daily, either. Or start with that to make a point lol

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Besides all this BS she is a really good friend, and I love her. I just can't change, and neither can she so it's sort of doomed. There's no way I will be able to talk calmly about trans things anymore, or express my point of view whitout snapping if someone says something shitty. So I can't even have a discussion with someone who completely disagree from the go, all I will do is snarl. Maybe she'll tolerate me a little bit more, but I have a feeling that it won't last anyway because she's getting more and more involved with her trans crew, so I will be soon a monster to exclude.

[–]JulienMayfair 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I deal with it the same way I deal with people who are of a different religion, which is basically what this is. I will be perfectly civil and polite to them in social situations, but I will not allow friendship or person intimacy to proceed past a certain point.

[–]wendyokoopa1 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That sounds like how I handled Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus. Be nice only if necessary

[–]wendyokoopa1 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That sounds like how I handled Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus. Be nice only if necessary

[–]Chocolatepudding 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of you don't want to lose her as a friend try telling her it's a topic not up for discussion and you're happy to disagree? But I tend to go with other comment - likely you're being set up. You could tell her you don't think transpeople are bad etc and you're more than happy to agree to disagree.... if you are

[–]TransspeciesUnicornI sexually identify as a mythical sparkly equine 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

The petty/vengeful part of me feels like every time she tries to make you hang out with her trans friends, you should follow up by sending her an article about how trans people are sexually harassing gay people. Or how transwomen are destroying women's sports, or send her a tweet/blog post from a crazy TRA raving about how they want to submit gays to conversion therapy, etc. 😈😈 And be like, "Hey, what do you think about this??" 😇😇

Of course, that would probably prove inflammatory, so another option would just be to make an excuse about how you can't go every time she tries to get you to hang with her trans friends. Or you could always just stop hanging out with her. That's what I did with my "friends" after they were all raving about JKR. You know, someone who is your friend should be someone you enjoy being around and who doesn't make your life more difficult, right? That's the approach I took. I realized I just really didn't enjoy being around my pro-trans kinkster pickme libfem "friends" anymore. Seeing them bashing women for naming the truth (JKR) or talking about how BDSM relationships are sO mUcH mOrE lOvInG was just depressing. Why would I want to be friends with people that make me feel depressed? Maybe you should think about that too... do you enjoy hanging out with her enough that she's worth this stress she's bringing to you? Is she the type that will cancel you if you say something too "wrong"?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've talked to her about all that. She told me she thinks that's messed up, but I'm pretty sure that her trans friends will make her thinks that it's all terf rhethoric anyway. She really wants to be a good person, genuinely and she also genuinely thinks she's doing the right thing so that just makes me sad lol. A lot of those TQ+ dumbasses really think they're in the right too, and that makes all of this so painful. I'm really tired.

Besides all that I enjoy being with her, she's my friend and I love her.

[–]wendyokoopa1 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Another suggestion show this friend how they're entering women's jails and sexually assaulting and Impregnating women with impunity. Like I don't know if you're friend is a completely woked out zombie and missed a memo somewhere but often times when women end up in jail many times it's due to trauma or mental health issues that lead them there, and yes sometimes these traumas are due and I'm sorry dudes(male dudes) to men. We're talking women who might have been sexually abused and assaulted from childhood on. Women who might have turned to drugs, and prostitution to kill the pain and to survive now let's throw these women in with men possibly yes predatorial men who woke up one day horny af threw on Shania's hit (Man) I feel like a woman and decided to invade our prisons so he can get laid. Or showcase to her how insanely difficult it is for women to get our health care needs met. How these larping individuals have invaded women's reproduction clinics. Amongst other things.

[–]IridescentAnacondastrictly dickly 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There is a lot of misconception and just ineffective living that spouts from the good/bad nice/asshole dichotomy. There are a lot of other dimensions in life. Consider that a "nice" person may just simply be hiding a very predatory passive-aggressive streak, or else simply not confident or smart enough to enforce strong boundaries. Consider that someone you think is "bad" or an "asshole" may simply be enforcing a boundary. And then there is a whole other universe of adjectives that evade the good/bad dichotomy ("wise", "shrewd", "foolish", "inexperienced", etc.)

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

the good/bad nice/asshole dichotomy.

Flair checks out

Consider that someone you think is "bad" or an "asshole" may simply be enforcing a boundary.

Unfortunately I don't think most trans activists are much willing to think about this in anything more than 2 shades. "Transphobic" and "Non-Transphobic". One basically made a browser extension(shinigami eyes) that reduced the internet to just that.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One basically made a browser extension(shinigami eyes) that reduced the internet to just that.

The fact there is none for homophobia is so telling.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's telling, but I think it's good that it never devolved to that extreme level of black and white. For all TRAs talk about nuance and spectrums, they rarely accept any range of opinion when it comes to this.

[–]wendyokoopa1 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Personally I would try the other solutions my colleagues here have suggested but tell your friend that if they continue to disrespect you on this to lose your contact information. 2 years ago I made the acquaintance and was making a friendship with a really nice Scottish man I met on twitch(we're both doom fans) ultimately I had to dump him and this trans rights over biological female rights amongst other things(second was globalization and possible worldwide communism) was the end of our friendship. The other thing I had was a mom, my mom and even my sister who both knew I find a lot of Muslims rude, ignorant and despite what their book says very very sexist towards women. My mom would go out of her way to make me feel awful for my stance on them. I would routinely double down that I will be nice to them In various settings but I won't do it on dating sites. She was making me feel like your friend is making you feel like a freaking pariah for not dating or forcing myself to like them. So my thing is give your friend one more chance to respect your wishes then if if happens again which with tras it usually does(my God they're insufferable sociopathic children) dump her. You can't force someone to like everyone that's the crown jewel of sociopathy

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It might be good to ask if she's intentionally setting up these meetings in order to make you more empathetic to her ideology. At face value it might be normal but it seems like she's trying to indoctrinate you based on previous conversations.

[–]automoderatorHuman-Exclusionary Radical Overlord[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

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