RantI feel like I'm losing my marbles at work

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.LGBDropTheT

My workplace is very dominated by gender identity ideology. On a day-to-day basis, LGB and TQ-related topics don't come up much, fortunately, but whenever they do, the lack of knowledge and critical thinking skills my coworkers seem to have regarding these topics blows my mind.

An example: One of my coworkers told me recently that "sex is a spectrum" and that "different characteristics are used at different times to define sex." I said something like, "Well, there are two sexes because there are only two types of gamete. Right? The characteristics are all associated with one or the other." He looked lost. I didn't want to risk getting into an argument about it, so I just changed the subject. I am not sure if he didn't know what a gamete was, if he was questioning everything he knew, if he was bothered by what I'd said, or what. Conversations like this really erode my trust in the judgment of the people around me... like, if you believe this Flat Earther-type BS about sex, to what extent should I trust your other judgment calls at work? FWIW, this guy is actually pretty nice-- he's just very misinformed.

On the other hand, I've also seen some gender identity activism outrage/speeches (sorry I'm being vague, don't want to give potentially identifying details). Those drive me crazy because they make me feel like I'm invisible, just an onlooker watching misinformation spreading before my own eyes among the people around me, and they don't even know about it-- and I can't tell them about it, because that would probably get me sent to HR. It's especially alienating when I see other self-identified LGB people spouting this shit.

Thanks for listening to me rant. Feel free to share your stories about people you know who are also drinking the Kool-Aid. Or any other thoughts you have on the subject.

edit: typo

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[–]HelloMomo 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I would be curious to run a poll here with the question: "Did you at one point believe (even just vaguely or tacitly) in this shit?"

I remember being like 13 and on tumblr, and when I first heard of NB I thought it was kinda ridiculous. On some level I knew it was bullshit from the beginning, even as dumb kid. And yet despite that, I still kinda went along with it, tacitly believed it, for almost a decade more before consciously recognizing at 21 or so, "Absolutely not, this is bunk."

And I don't think my story is unusual. A lot of people believed it, at least a little. That's why we talk about "peaking".

I often have moments when I think how could anyone believe something so obviously stupid and baseless. And if a person does believe this, then how can I possibly trust or respect them in any other field? And in moments like that, I think it's good to remember that I too got caught up in this for a time.

[–]Wanderingthehalls 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a genXer. For a long time I guess I believed that someone could be born in the wrong body and as I thought of that as a terrible affliction, I felt very sorry for people who were born that way. Growing up I was aware of drag queens - gay men playing an act of a caricature of a women for entertainment, with quite benign, often thoughtful, characters like Lily Savage as the example I saw. Transvestites, men either straight or sometimes with an interest on children, who dressed up as women for sexual gratification. I was aware of the potential interest in children as the 'local transvestite' had come out from the side of his house, naked apart from his wig and make-up, to masturbate in front of my brother(6) and me(9) when we were on our way to school. (He did it to a number of children over the space of a few days and the school had to advise all parents not to let their children walk alone on his street. I don't know if the police got involved.) I've always had a wariness of transvestites since then even though I honestly didn't truly understand what he was doing at the time.

And I also knew of transexuals. These to me, seemed to be very unfortunate people. The main example I had of this was the character of Hayley in Coronation Street, a quiet, unassuming character played by a woman, who fell in love with gentle, likely autistic Roy Cropper. The other was Willy/Milly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willy/Milly who I thought was lucky to discover was happy as a girl after all. I had assumed that transexuals exhausted all avenues to help them feel content in their natural body and only transed as a last resort. I assumed that the issue of male born people in women's sports wouldn't ever come up as the male advantage was too obvious for anyone to pretend it wasn't. And I'm embarrassed to say, I thought transwomen were at a big risk in male toilets and should be welcome in women's because, I was thinking of Hayley Cropper not the man who merrily masturbated in front of me, my brother and a number of my schoolmates.

I always thought NB was utter, narcissistic teen/young adult bullshit. But I figured it was just stupid and harmless and I had my own phase of faddish reality denying of stupidity as a young adult, so I was judging it from that perspective. 2018 London Pride was when I peaked, I had niggles before that, bursts of confusion or irritation at some of the activism of my peers, but I usually just allowed myself to accept trans-activist arguments. I didn't understand what had gone on at all, the newspaper articles on the Get The L Out protest confused me and didn't explain the issue. I actually found a thread by another confused person on Mumsnet and reading from the clued in posters I started to understand a little. Then I had a real life discussion with someone who said that as a 'white-cis-straight-man' they didn't really get to have an opinion on it. And when I said that actually, I think I could see where the lesbian group was coming from and why they had concerns, he just shouted at me for my bigotry until I changed the subject. And that was the moment I peaked.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, I've been thinking of doing a poll for a while! If people would be interested in it, I'll try to set one up on a trustworthy site.

I often have moments when I think how could anyone believe something so obviously stupid and baseless. And if a person does believe this, then how can I possibly trust or respect them in any other field? And in moments like that, I think it's good to remember that I too got caught up in this for a time.

Yeah, I hear you-- it's good to keep that in mind. Each person has only so much energy to spend in a day, and refuting bewildering ideological claims takes a lot of energy. For me, I guess I just never really thought about it, back in college... I had no understanding at all of why so many of my classmates were calling themselves "nonbinary" and whatnot, but I felt bad that I didn't seem to get it and accepted that they must just know better than me. Now it makes me kind of angry to think about the way I was mistrusting and putting myself down... but I need to remember that other people who are silent on the issue are probably having that same experience, I'm not the only one! Lol. Thank you for the indirect reminder of that.

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I never believed in non-binary shit. I concluded it was a phase popular among girls, who wanted to be special. I was more of a "truscum/transmedical" so to me a trans person was someone with dysphoria and good diagnosis screening. Technically nothing changed about it but I don't like how some trans people wanna be delusional about the fact they were born their actual sex (let's say a trans woman deluding herself even her body is male) but transitioned to resemble the desired sex. What changed was me realizing who hides behind the trans label today...

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yikes. Thanks for venting here so you can protect yourself there.

I know a bunch of woke people who are relatively smart but don't know what is actually going on. They don't really bring it up, but given an excuse, they will do some signaling, and I take note every time. I only know of a few people for sure who don't buy TRA bullshit, because they've brought it up first in private. (Being trusted has its privileges.) So I know we exist, and I know that some are being quiet right now. I am sure I could peak some of us easily, too.

Just keep venting here. I sincerely hope for all our sakes the tide turns soon. It's quite the laborious task to censor reality to cope with the groupthink.

Sending you fortitude.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for venting here so you can protect yourself there.

That's a really good way to put it, I appreciate that. I'm so grateful this place exists. Otherwise I would be absolutely convinced I'm going crazy.

They don't really bring it up, but given an excuse, they will do some signaling, and I take note every time.

I've noticed something similar with just a few people at my work. I am glad to see that when it happens. I wonder how extreme my workplace is compared to other places... when the topic comes up, people parrot TRA Twitter talking points, so I have to assume it's on the more extreme end. I'm glad you know of some other people IRL who are quietly dissenting, too!

It's quite the laborious task to censor reality to cope with the groupthink.

Yes. It really is. (And it annoys me that the indoctrinated people around me who are perpetuating the problem, don't even have to deal with this energy drain!)

Sending you fortitude.

Thanks. <3 You too.

[–]JulienMayfair 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm going to try to relate to your account from the angle of the expert vs. the lay person. Without getting into too much extraneous detail, I'm an expert on some technical subjects. I have also, at times, participated in public discussion forums on those topics.

Here's the thing. A lot of people aren't very bright. Most people are of average intelligence. They may be perfectly competent in a certain area that allows them to make a living, but beyond that, they are just floundering around. Point number 2: These people hate it when experts enter a discussion and make it clear that they really don't know what the fuck they are talking about, and that quickly turns into hating the expert. I've learned this the hard way on these public forums because what you'll have is a bunch of people who don't know how any of this works circling the wagons and defending each other. I can know I'm right and they're wrong, but they don't even know enough to understand my explanation of why my advice is right and theirs is wrong. And their heads are so full of misinformation and urban legends, that it's an uphill battle all the way.

So my approach to these forums now is that I read them just to gauge the general ways in which amateurs are thinking about the issues I'm an expert on. Occasionally, when someone else who actually knows something pops up, I'll contribute something, but most of the time, I can't be bothered to correct all the misinformation and bullshit.

This is how I stay sane. As to the judgment question, I'll go back to what I'd call the narrow competence I mentioned above. People may be perfectly good at what they do for a living, while having very little common sense about anything else. Our modern world of specialization has created many people like this. I look at my local Nextdoor website and see how many professionals in their field can't manage to use Google to identify a snake in their back yard. But, as above a lot of people aren't very bright.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They may be perfectly competent in a certain area that allows them to make a living, but beyond that, they are just floundering around. Point number 2: These people hate it when experts enter a discussion and make it clear that they really don't know what the fuck they are talking about, and that quickly turns into hating the expert. I've learned this the hard way on these public forums because what you'll have is a bunch of people who don't know how any of this works circling the wagons and defending each other. I can know I'm right and they're wrong, but they don't even know enough to understand my explanation of why my advice is right and theirs is wrong. And their heads are so full of misinformation and urban legends, that it's an uphill battle all the way.

You're absolutely right, Julien. Sadly, I've witnessed situations like this on Reddit... I watched a guy who was a professional get downvoted to oblivion once when trying to inject a dose of reality into a conversation among laypeople. Eventually he stopped contributing. It was so frustrating to me, like this person was taking his time to actually give some valuable and otherwise-hard-to-access information! It's one of the reasons why the internet, while an incredible place to start learning, is often a poor place to pick up very specialized knowledge... in-person communication's always gonna be useful for that.

As to the judgment question, I'll go back to what I'd call the narrow competence I mentioned above. People may be perfectly good at what they do for a living, while having very little common sense about anything else. Our modern world of specialization has created many people like this.

That's a great observation. Yes, we do live in a world of specialization. That has its pros and cons. It's funny, there has been such a shift against being a generalist in the US it seems, at a cultural level... I'm on the older end of Gen Z and out of college, but when I was applying for it, being "pointy" or overly specialized was all the rage. And in kids, we're talking... with so little emphasis on situation-generalizable critical thinking skills.

Thanks for sharing your perspective, I appreciate it. Those are some grounding observations.

[–]Chocolatepudding 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd be tempted to say that it sounds like flat-earthery to me! But I understand we all have to work!

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

He probably didn't know what a gamete was, though it was possible he was having trouble figuring out why your programming was different from his. (bzzt...error)

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hahaha lowkey seemed like he was mentally buffering or something. I was just like-- Ok, time to move on lol.

[–]xanditAGAB (Assigned Gay at Birth) 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

"different characteristics are used at different times to define sex."

this is true as tra's will use whichever characteristic at the moment proves they are women/men.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, exactly. Ever-moving goalposts. Luckily, objective reality is not so wildly inconsistent. (At least this aspect of objective reality. Guess we still haven't figured out quantum physics yet or whatever.)

[–]INeedSomeTimeAsexual Ally 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel the same and I believe a lot of the non-trans people from my group are also misinformed and just very confirmist. I know this seeing them struggling with the whole pronouns game... like when they kept "misgendering" a woman who said she is non-binary and goes by they/them. Though it happened without her presence but it was so telling to me these people just wanna be polite so their politeness is being basically exploited.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's true! I've seen three people at work now do the accidental "misgender" thing. It's like a massive game of pretending that there is a Santa Claus... but on a society-wide level. Insane.

Seriously, people in like 50 years are gonna look back on this time and be like, "What was wrong with them???"