Lesbian flags?

submitted by reluctant_commenter from self.Lesbians

I don't really know much about this but was curious what you all thought. I have seen on lgbt Tumblr (yeah, I know, that's my first mistake lol) like 3+ different "lesbian flags".

One is like, orange and pink: shorturl.at/ijpBY

and then there's one that's like pink at the top and fades to white and then red: shorturl.at/luJM6

and then there's a version of that one that has a lipstick mark on it. I've seen people call that one the "lipstick lesbian flag".

On Tumblr there are a bunch of people arguing back and forth about whether the pink and red flag is bigoted, and some are trying to get people to use the pink and orange flag. I have not yet fact checked or looked into any of this, I was just curious what people here thought about it.

What are all your thoughts about lesbian flags? Do you even care about flags, anyway? Do you like one of these flags better than the other? Do most lesbians even know about these flags...?

edit: I was thinking about this because I started looking at /s/LGBDropTheT and noticed they have a bunch of flags you can use as your flair. (I really like the blue one, but I think that one's for gay men, lol.)

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[–]VioletRemi 19 insightful - 4 fun19 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

There now so much of those flags, and for some reason - all other LGBTQ+ flags are fine, and someone always trying to change lesbian flags and only lesbian flags. Lesbian flags always either "bigoted" or "not inclusive enough". There even "lesbian+translesbian" flags. It is almost like lesbians must include everyone and not just lesbians. Annoying.

The only flag I accept is Labrys flag.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah there does seem to be a lot of bickering over it. I forgot about the labrys flag! Thanks for mentioning it. Why do you like that one?

[–]VioletRemi 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Labrys sign or tattoo, or violets flowers were safe ways to recognize each other here, without risking our health. Plus it symbolizes our struggle and that we always overcome. And violet color is good too, color of violets.

[–]WildwoodFlower 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I don't like any of the existing lesbian flags, especially that pink and orange one. I think there are too many pride flags in general. I can't even keep track of whose is whose anymore. The old-fashioned rainbow flag is good enough for me. But if I were to design a lesbian flag, it would be lavender and purple plaid, in homage to plaid flannel shirts. It would also be distinguishable from the various striped flags.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Omg. I would 100% go for a plaid lesbian flag. Now I'm tempted to make a design. I don't even know how to use Paint, though..

[–]WanderingElephant 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Flags are symbols so they can have a purpose, and I suppose some power, in certain circumstances (rallies,protests etc). I've never owned or used one. Back in the day, the fight for equality was based on highlighting our similarities with straight people rather than highlighting our only difference. Plus being LGB is only one small factor in multiple influencers on my individual identity. So, I guess for me it's been a political choice not to display/own a flag.

[–]VioletRemi 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LGB community was striving to normalize us, so we live like everyone else and not like someone alien to society. Blend with everyone and that everyone will not judge us on our sexual orientation, and we be just like any other person to everyone. So showing our difference with flags or anything else is counterproductive. However, just putting flag or Labrys tattoo can easily help you to find someone of your interests without asking every girl you like "are you into girls?". So they should be small, if used.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I getcha. I don't really know that I'd necessarily want one to like, put on the front of my house or something. Then again, when I see the gay pride flag on someone else's window it makes me smile, so I guess I am a hypocrite haha.

I was thinking about it because I thought it might be a nice thing, for visibility, to have as a flair on the other sub. But I thought I'd hear other people's thoughts first. Thanks for sharing :)

[–]Fraeulein 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

The lipstick lesbian flag was made by a lady back in 2010 who wanted a flag specifically for lipstick lesbians. A version without the lipstick mark caught on some time later because before then, the only other lesbian flags were the labrys flag and the rainbow flag with double-venus symbol on it, neither of which really fit in with other LGBT flags. Some lesbians didn't like the pink flag because they felt it excluded butch lesbians, so a butch version of the pink flag was made, where instead of pink and red, the bars were yellow and orange. From that, a new version of the lesbian flag started making its rounds that was a combination of the pink and orange flags, meant to represent both butch and femme lesbians. A couple years back, people started becoming uncomfortable with the pink flag being used as the lesbian flag because 1. as I said earlier, they felt it excluded butch lesbians and 2. the original designer said some things on her blog that really rubbed people the wrong way (which imo is a ridiculous reason, considering the flag is meant for the lesbian community, not the designer herself). Some other flags were proposed as "the new lesbian flag", such as the godawful catastrophe known as the "sappho flag." Luckily, these didn't catch on too much, and a lot of people switched over to the orange/pink flag since it was easily recognizable. The pink flag is still used, but more as just a femme lesbian flag. Atleast, that's from what I recall as a lesbian Tumblr veteran. I've seen a lot of other people here disagree with this, but I really like the orange/pink lesbian flag. I think the colors are very pretty, they remind me of a sunset. I think there is a misconception that some of the bar colors are meant to represent "nonbinary lesbians" and trans lesbians, which definitely was not the case, though some people have tried to pass it off as that after it was made. I still use the pink lesbian flag too, as a femme lesbian. Though, I still believe the labrys flag is the best lesbian flag. It makes me feel powerful.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks so much for the explanation! That makes a lot more sense. Yes, I had heard that the orange on the newer pink-and-orange lesbian flag was for nonbinary, which was part of my hesitation to use it.

I get why butches might feel excluded from the all-pink flag, as well. I am not butch but lean more masculine and I feel a little uncomfortable with how pink it is. I had femininity forced down my throat as a child, though, so that's just how I feel about it-- I respect that other people enjoy it. I like how it looks but it's not really me.

I know flags don't mean a lot to people, and that's totally okay. I am a very visual person, and I like the visibility that seeing these sorts of symbols generates-- helps you feel like you're not the only one.

[–]Fraeulein 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No problem! I watched this weird flag discourse unfold from the start and it was a huge shitshow. Atleast it helped me to weed out any lesbophobes I had been following. I have seen a few people make posts claiming they are the original designers of the orange/pink lesbian flag and assigning meaning to each of the bars including "nonbinary lesbians." It's bullshit. The flags have existed before any of these posts were made. The only meaning they have is orange for butch and pink for femme. The white bar has no real meaning. It's just there because the preexisting butch and femme flags had it. Believe me, if it supported "nonbinary lesbians" or "he/him lesbians" in any way, I would absolutely never use it. I completely agree! Pink is my favorite color, and I think the pink flag is very beautiful! But, I do believe it is better off being a symbol for femme lesbians specifically. We're definitely not alone on this! I see a lot of people complain about having flags for different subsects of LGBT identities, but I love it, and I know plenty of people who do as well. It's fun to have the symbols that really represent you. I plan on ordering the labrys, femme, and orange/pink lesbian flags to hang up in my room.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have seen a few people make posts claiming they are the original designers of the orange/pink lesbian flag and assigning meaning to each of the bars including "nonbinary lesbians." It's bullshit. The flags have existed before any of these posts were made.

Omg. I know people go on the internet and say all kinds of stupid stuff, but seriously?? Who has the nerve to and claim credit for something like that? That really irritates me.

The only meaning they have is orange for butch and pink for femme. The white bar has no real meaning.

White is for emptiness, for the lack of thought these people put into their research...

I see a lot of people complain about having flags for different subsects of LGBT identities, but I love it, and I know plenty of people who do as well. It's fun to have the symbols that really represent you.

Thanks for backing me up, I appreciate it :) that's exactly where I'm at. I feel a little silly about it but it's something I think I'd really appreciate. Now if I could only pick one (or more) that feel the best, that'd be nice, haha.

Thanks so much for sharing!

[–]writerlylesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What did the Sappho Flag look like?

[–]Fraeulein 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It had purple, gold, green and pink bars with shades so vibrant and clashing that it could make a blind person's eyes bleed. The post in which it debuted was titled "A Lesbian Flag For EVERYONE," and the bars were meant to represent things like "strength, healing, and fragility." Y'know, some word vomit that has nothing to do with the concept of being a woman who digs only other women. It was meant to be bi-inclusive too, and apparently the colors were derived from poems by Sappho since lesbianism is a cult and totally not a sexuality.

[–]writerlylesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A lesbian flag for EVERYONE? Like...Isn't that a contradiction in terms? Oh dear...Maybe we need to start teaching the kids logic Vulcan style.

Everything about that sounds awful, thank god the pink and orange one prevailed. I think I'll always stick with the labrys personally, but at least the pink and pink/orange ones are reasonable to look at.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You can google it if you're curious, it looks pretty gross in my opinion, haha.

A lesbian flag for EVERYONE?

I'm kinda surprised at that wording too. Doesn't make sense. But maybe they just meant "sapphic".

[–]sootsprite 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Unpopular opinion, but I like the pink striped one. I just like the way it looks. I like the message behind the labrys one, but I think it's very ugly from an aesthetic standpoint.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To be honest, I kind of agree with you haha. I am a big fan of gradients and the labrys doesn't really do it for me (just based on how it looks). I wonder a little at it being pink which seems kinda gender-stereotyped, with gay men's being the same thing but blue; maybe a violet gradient flag would make more sense?

edit: VIOLET, not "violent" gradient. Jeez.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 7 fun5 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 7 fun -  (4 children)

All of the flags are annoying apart from the regular pride flag, IMO. What we are seeing now is like the flag version of 1 million pronouns.

And the lesbian flag looks like bacon

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Hahaha that's fair, I get why you'd feel that way. There do seem to be a ridiculous amount of options, kinda waters down the whole thing.

Hey, I like bacon. :)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I prefer the simplicity of having a single flag, at least for LGB. I think sub-flags are fun on forums and stuff but I wish every faction didn’t feel it necessary to be using different flags. The new pride flag is ridiculous and horrible.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I had to look up the new pride flag to see what you meant. That'll be a 'no' for me, dawg. Jeez, I wonder what people thought was wrong with the first one in the first place. A rainbow is like, pretty inoffensive, as far as I can tell.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are trawling for things to be offended by.

[–]Dykexmachina 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Labrys flag is best, case closed. It is law.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I don't care much about flags. Lesbians don't have an "official" flag but almost all of the ones I've seen are ugly. I kind of like the pink red and white flag without the lipstick but otherwise I prefer the rainbow flag.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeahhh, there's so many. I'm still on the fence about them all.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[–]xAcidRainx 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The all pink flag is pretty, but I prefer the labrys. I don't get the one with the orange stripe.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Based on this highly rigorous data collection method, it looks like there is a tie for popularity between the labrys flag and the rainbow pride flag, with many people endorsing general indifference towards flags or limited interest. The runner-up is the pink gradient flag, with the pink-and-orange flag in a distant third. RIP "sappho flag".

Thanks for the input everybody!

[–]LesbianInExile 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've been out for about 30 years and until the last few years had never seen anything but the traditional rainbow flag. I think all these million and one different flags are just a symptom of identity politics and all these different special genders and sexualities people identify as these days. We are included in the rainbow flag (or were traditionally) and there are versions of it which include the venus symbol so I think that is enough. I don't really like the labrys flag as it is a Lesbian Feminist thing so a) it doesn't include all lesbians (homosexual females) unless they hold specific political views and b) it's also the flag of political lesbians.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ah, I didn't know the labrys flag was a political one. Don't know how I missed that, that's interesting.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

[–]Maeven 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I like the pink and orange design because it's supposed to include masc lesbians and the lipstick lesbian one doesn't. It's annoying that it came from the QT crowd but whatever, I don't care who created it nor do I care who created the lipstick one.

Labrys without the triangle is cool too, but can't always use it. Too "terfy".

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I am in a similar boat. I am ok with the lipstick lesbian flag in the sense that I like it a lot as a flag, but it is not really me.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts! :)

[–]midnight305 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I use one that a vender at tsbasacon was selling.

Its purple yellow pink and green called sappic ( couodvif got the order of the colors wrong )

I use this one the most because it's not stereotypically all pink. And the colors are pretty diverse

That or the people battle ax flag is the only two I use.

I refuse to use the new one or old one because its stereotypically pink and the new one includes trans and non binary in it so fuck that.

Also it's nice to try to celebrate something ....and to try to attract a partner ....if anything cuz how is a girl gonna know I'm a kesbian unless I show it.....right ?

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ah, okay! So you're a fan of the sapphic flag. I feel you on not really relating to the all-pink flag.

Actually, one of the other commenters was saying the pink and orange one doesn't stand for nonbinary/trans, it was made to be more inclusive of butches! I might go look up that one a little more myself.

Lol, I get that. Somehow I tend to give off gay vibes anyways even without a flag, but I think it's good too to be like "Hey, this is something I celebrate, it's not something I'm ashamed of".

[–]midnight305 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Mine is more long the lines of I attracted guys because I'm more boyish in personality so they tend to fall for me so it's also to crib them from asking me out.

[–]reluctant_commenter[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have had that exact same problem, that's a great idea!! Didn't even think of that, lol.

[–]midnight305 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hehe see I is smart I is kind I is important.