Anyone else actually form strong bonds with men?

submitted by ColdSoup from self.Lesbians

I always feel like a fake lesbian whenever anyone brings up being incapable of deep bonds with men as a sign of their lesbianism. Actually I form very close friendships with men and have done from a young age because they're entirely non-sexual. Especially gay men as I've gotten older because I know for a fact they think of me the same way. However I've always had predominantly male interests and been a bit of a nerd and so I've had dozens of male friends and a few very close male best friends who have stuck by me for most of my life. I also bond well with women, and obviously relationships between women are magical... The emotional intimacy is nothing like I'd ever experienced with men, and if there's a sexual component that obviously changes the dynamic entirely. But I have deep platonic love for plenty of guys and I find our relationships to have a charming simplicity to them, just playing DnD or being in a band together since all of my band mates are male. I don't hate men at all and it makes it hard to relate to a lot of lesbians, and it's not like I haven't had bad experiences. There are just way more good ones.

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[–]begonia_skies 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing, especially since it does sound like you do in fact have interests that men tend to share. I don't have an issue with men, I have friendships with men but none of them are deep friendships by any means. My closest and deepest friendships are all with women. No, I don't "hate men" I just find straight men tend to be deeply problematic frequently, especially related to lesbian topics. I never seem to be taken seriously by them or they believe since we are friends they can ask me deeply invasive and inappropriate questions. It's not my job to help men grow (despite what every movie storyline depicts), and I just don't know that straight men can ever really overcome the "lesbians are a fetish" or women just deep down "need a good dick" belief.

I actually connect with gay men even less than with straight men. Generally, I don't have much in common with gay men and you can hate me for saying it, but I personally find a lot of gay men far more openly misogynistic than straight men, at least the ones I have encountered. The gay men I know all seem to hold the belief that women just aren't as good at the things they are, like decorating, fashion, cooking, etc. And a lot of gay men I know have this weird obsession with drag that just doesn't sit well with me (I won't bore you with my belief that drag is men mocking women).

I don't think anyone really cares if you have a lot of male friends and I'm glad you seem to have had mostly positive experiences.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I generally relate a lot less to gay men too, even though some of the sweetest guys I have met have been gay men. This was in high school and college before the world crushed us. Lol.

Sadly lots of gay boys were just sweeties who were ostracized and treated like garbage for not being “man” enough, and I think that’s where some of that “fuck you” attitude directed at women is from. It seems like many of them don’t care enough to examine their behaviour.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Totally. Lots of my best friends ever have been straight guys, a few gay guys, a couple trans “guys.” My friendships with men are also more simple in many ways, mostly because you can speak strongly to them without causing a huge issue (offline).

However, I find men are super super fucking clueless about women, and especially lesbians, to the point of it being pretty offensive sometimes. I just try to explain things in non-bitchy ways, but sometimes get pretty irritable with them. Especially the straight dude friends. They seem to literally believe in porn, and have a lot of really strange ideas of female sexuality. Thankfully that doesn’t come up much.

I find men easier to relate to than other women, but that’s because my feelings about women are a lot more complicated and I care more about not bothering them or hurting their feelings.

This is all generalized, because I don’t especially think it’s useful to make a huge distinction between males and females in terms of friendship, as if we are not all humans who are all different personalities etc. Almost all of my closest-emotionally friendships have been with women, but those bonds are much harder to maintain than non-threatening bonds like the ones i have with dudes. It doesn’t help that when I came out I was ostracized by other women, in high school. Women I didn’t even have crushes on, but was friends with, were saying how “gross” I was for being a lesbian.

Lol, most of my male friends have been into nerd stuff, games, or in bands. Sounds like our friend groups were similar.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When I was younger, yes. Now, no.

I don't care about men or like them at all. I can be on friendly terms with them but I won't go out of my way to befriend them. At some point or another they always end up doing or saying something sexist or homophobic and the older I get the less patience I have for them.

[–]LesbianInExile 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think being a lesbian means you can't have deep friendship bonds with men - Straight women usually have strong friendship bonds with other women, it doesn't mean they are secretly bi. Friendship is different from sexual and romantic attraction.

I think being a lesbian has actually made it more difficult for me to connect with most other women - specifically straight and bi women - because of the lesbophobia I have experienced from them and internalised myself - that I wasn't a real woman, that lesbians are creepy predators, that they don't feel comfortable being close to us. And my sexuality also means that I don't share a lot of experiences that are seen as common female experiences.

These days I have a lot more female friends than male friends (mainly other lesbians but some straight/bi women too) but I still have some male friends and my longest standing friendship is with a gay man who I have known since we were both teens (a long time ago!). I do recognise the misogyny in some gay men and try to avoid those ones but I do think we have a lot of common experiences too and on an individual level there are also straight guys that are decent people who I have shared hobbies or interests with.

[–]lurkergirl 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Where is this idea of misogynistic gay men coming from? I've never felt it. Is it just a feeling that they're against women, or do you have a defined idea of how they're against women.

[–]lmaonope333 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do have friendships with several straight guys however I generally form closer bonds with women as I trust them more

[–]Lesbianese 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I love my immediate male family and my longtime best friend is a gay man. I get on pretty well with guys, assuming they aren't total jerks.

[–]FrostyNugs 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I was a huge tomboy growing up and most of my interests now as an adult are still those mostly shared by dudes, so I usually get along better with guys. I can also be very blunt, and guys usually respond better to that than women. The whole idea of not being able to have guy friends as a lesbian is dumb as hell. Not being attracted to dudes doesn't mean you can't form platonic bonds with them, and many are wonderful people and great friends.

[–]sickofit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Who are these people saying you can’t be friends with men? I have men who are like brothers to me. These people are probably political lesbians

[–]FrostyNugs 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think people underestimate how prevalent political lesbians are in 2020. The only difference between them then and now is that the modern ones don't outright admit it.

[–]sickofit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed... it weirds me out. Both "libfems" and "radfems" do it. Then in 2020 they try to redefine lesbianism in their image at the expense of actual lesbians.

[–]Shroomba 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Only gay men

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The majority of my friends have always been guys because I have interests that are "masculine" by society's standards. I actually had a much harder time connecting with other girls growing up, since they thought I was weird and excluded me in things.

I did notice as I got older that some of my guy friends confused our friendship with romance, and I lost guy friends because of that. It's very annoying.

Even though I have no issues interacting with women nowadays, I still find it much easier to get along with men than women. I think I always feel like (straight) women are judging me or something, like they did when I was younger. 🤷‍♀️

[–]VioletRemi 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Same here, but gladly men were gays, so not thought about any romantical involvement at all. Straight ones fell in love into me, but they seems to be okay with me being lesbian, and stopped any approaches. And from women I have like 1-2 geek girls who I know and talk sometimes, they are both 10-15 years older than me, and that is it. Only close women friends I had - all were my girlfriends, lol.

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t want male friends now for the most part, but I do know some men who I’m fine with and are good people. I had a lot of male friends when I was younger, I had a lot of misogyny to unpack after my friend circle changed. IMO it doesn’t make anyone less lesbian to have male friends nor does it make any lesbian less so for hating men just because it fits a stereotype. It’s a superficial gauge and irrelevant. Feelings about men are kinda separate, other than you know- the (lack of) attraction and desire part.

The people who get too caught up in that are the ones with the issue.

[–]circus_cyaneus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have been blessed with the presence of good and noble men in my life, among them my best friends, my brother, my father, teachers, professors, etc. Some men in my life I have trouble with, sure, but thankfully they're the exception rather than the rule.

[–]BigMommyMilkers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. I have always had tons of male friends, I think this is mostly because my interests are very male dominated and my personality is "not feminine" shall we say. Plenty have expressed their feelings or tried to hit on me over the years but when firmly put in their place I've not had any further issues. While I do have some female friendships I generally prefer being friends with dudes, in my experience they are more easy-going and fun in general to hang out with.

[–]Coffeebreath 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm very close with my brothers, much more so than my sister. We just have more in common in terms of interests, humor, and hobbies. I think it's silly that just because you are romantically and sexually attracted to women that you can't have platonic guy friends.

[–]Skipdip 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes! I made a post about my internalized homophobia and misogyny, and I talked a lot about men and how internalized homophobia and misogyny damaged my once-intimate relationships with them. It was taken down by the mods. Disappointing indeed. But yes I completely resonate with this. I love intimate connections with men and feel lucky that they aren’t sexual.

[–]MrFahrenheit46 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have also had plenty of guy friends. Oddly enough, a good amount of them are younger than me (I'm in my mid-teens and they're tweens/very early teens), which is awesome since we just hang out and play video games/watch TV and I don't have to worry about them trying to make a pass at me.