Wow so much woman-hating on a lesbian forum

submitted by Blueegg from self.Lesbians

Why is every thread in here a coliseum for so-called lesbian women to mock and hate on other women? As a straight woman who has always vigilantly supported gay rights, I find it incredibly off-putting and disgusting to see post after post full of bitter hatred and misogyny directed at heterosexual women.

https://saidit.net/s/Lesbians/comments/6smv/my_boyfriend_was_nasty_to_me_so_i_became_a/

In that thread, for example, there are numerous, up-voted comments dumping on women and insulting their intelligence and to top it off there's even a comment that says, “I cannot stand straight women, I couldn't care less about them” and another telling the women who help fight for YOUR rights to “Go away”.

https://saidit.net/s/Lesbians/comments/6szk/my_gf_seems_sexist/

In that thread, a woman in an abusive and controlling relationship is asking for help but the response is to victim-blame and call her a doormat or a troll. Just because YOU are uncomfortable with addressing issues of abuse and toxic masculinity in lesbians relationships doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I can't believe women are mocking other women for being in a relationship with an abuser.

And then there's the line up of threads dedicated to cherry-picked comments from possibly mentally unwell women who are confused about their sexuality that are clearly posted just to give another excuse to hate on straight women. Can't believe the misogyny allowed to run rampant in a community that's supposed to be about loving women. I didn't see one single comment calling it out.

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[–][deleted] 56 insightful - 2 fun56 insightful - 1 fun57 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

You're going to get removed because this is a group specifically meant for lesbians and you're not one, but anyway.

  1. Oh no, anything but lesbians complaining about homophobic straight women! Straight women who call themselves lesbians despite literally admitting to having boyfriends! How could the lesbians let this happen?
  2. If you can't tell that the "my GF seems sexist" post threw up a lot of this seems fake red flags for a lot of the women commenting, so a lot of women were responding in a tongue-in-cheek way. (Good job also ignoring the majority of responses, which were sympathetic.)
  3. Those comments from r/latebloomerlesbians aren't even cherry-picked. Just spend more than 15 minutes reading there and you'll realize it stretches as far as the eye can see.
  4. Lesbians cannot engage in "toxic masculinity" because lesbians are women. If you want to criticize women for being misogynistic, by all means do so. But don't pretend it's because we're somehow men.

[–]Rubyredpython 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This! I got nothing more to add that you haven't said. 👏👏💯

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you. The only thing I want to add is that I thought about this thread again and I wouldn't be surprised if OP (brand new account) is also behind the my gf is sexist thread (throwaway account). The weird fixation on trying comparing lesbians to men feels like she came here trying to stir the pot in order to prove a point.

[–]VioletRemi 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, comparing lesbians to men is way too homophobic, and not very common thing for many people with same views finding somehow this forum and writing here.

[–]TalerTest 36 insightful - 24 fun36 insightful - 23 fun37 insightful - 24 fun -  (5 children)

I don't know what to say but this is hilarious and I hope the mods let it stay.

[–]yousaythosethings 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. I don't want this deleted. At this point this post and our responses are a testament as to why female homosexuality is not respected even by other women. I still can't can't get over OP asking us why we don't talk more about men here.

The users indicating that this is likely a lesbophobic radfem who wants to selfishly misappropriate and re-define lesbianism for her own misandrist purposes are spot on. But lesbianism isn't an ideology, political mechanism or a solution to your problems, lady. A straight woman seeking to hijack lesbianism for political purposes is no better than a transbian and is also sexist af in her denial of female sexuality.

[–]SickOfThisShitNow 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think this post should stay up too. It demonstrates so much.

[–]Blueegg[S] 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (2 children)

hilarious how?

[–][deleted] 29 insightful - 18 fun29 insightful - 17 fun30 insightful - 18 fun -  (0 children)

If you want to get fellated for being an "ally", there's always Reddit.

[–]VioletRemi 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

We are discussing problems that are unique to our experience, homophobia and sexism we are surrounded all the time, sharing our similar experiences, trying to not let "I am bisexual but call myself lesbian" or "I am a man with penis but I am lesbian" to become main narrative (like it is in most "lesbian" spaces nowadays, where all lesbians are banned or pushed out, and only non-lesbians staying there). If woman comes and is shitting on us with homophobia - there nothing misogynyc in telling her to shut up in her homophobia/lesbophobia. Answer - if white woman comes to women of color forum and start speaking racist things about women of color - should she be told to shut up or it is "misogynyc" to do so, lol?

[–][deleted] 32 insightful - 4 fun32 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Latebloomerlesbians is a dumpster fire of middle aged women getting divorced and running for the hills.

And then there's the line up of threads dedicated to cherry-picked comments from possibly mentally unwell women who are confused about their sexuality that are clearly posted just to give another excuse to hate on straight women.

At least we're not talking mentally unwell and confused women into being lesbians and getting a divorce because they're having a lousy time. I can sympathise with being in a crap relationship or going through a divorce but people have to learn to grow a spine and deal with their shit rather than using lesbianism as a form of escapism. Of course lesbians will be ticked off about it, and I'm hardly sorry they weren't polite about it. See a therapist if you want someone else to deal with your problems.

As for the other thread, most people were telling her to leave and pointing out that it's a crap relationship. I wouldn't know what else to say. I am not the coddling type.

[–]lmaonope333 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

alternatively, accusing lesbians of having "toxic masculinity" is lesbophobic. and if you were a true ally you'd respect this as a lesbian only space and you wouldn't be posting here. and it's funny how you think that straight women fight for lesbian rights, you are just pulling that opinion out of your ass

[–]Lesbianese 32 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

it's funny how you think that straight women fight for lesbian rights

Especially the type of heterosexual women we complain about most. Those women really don't care about us, if they did they wouldn't be pushing to redefine "lesbian" to include them and telling us that we can't be real lesbians because we aren't inclusive of women who are attracted to men and insist they're lesbians.

[–]pixipod 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it's funny how you think that straight women fight for lesbian rights

This. Straight women typically don't care about lesbians at all. Finding a straight woman who actually thinks about and is interested in lesbian's voices, our experiences etc is actually a nice surprise. I find straight women who consider themselves LGBT allies are really only concerned with gay men, their voices, their experiences.

[–]yousaythosethings 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I just want to say that this is at least partially an offshoot of the fact that gay men have generally been the face of the gay rights movement, and I think that’s at least in part because the general public saw/still sees gay men as a bigger threat than gay women. Lesbians were so invisible that when I was younger and liking girls and learned about homosexuality, I still didn’t connect that that was me because the discussion was always about gay men (see “It’s Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve” and Brokeback Mountain).

Since my closest friends are straight women, I have the good fortune of knowing straight women who are willing to listen to me and to learn about lesbian issues specifically, but if I didn’t tell them, they’d never know. And if I’d didn’t experience it myself, I don’t think that I’d know either.

But yea, someone who should know better, and comes here and sees the context of the comments she complains about is being a willfully obtuse selfish asshole. I don’t know what she expected us to say in response. “Sorry for talking about women, we’ll talk more about men” ??

[–]Vernalmuffins 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Tbh, why should a forum always be positive? Sometimes people just need to bitch about things or people, esp the people here who might not be able to complain in person. A lesbian forum is not meant for you, it's meant for the lesbians who have to put up with the bs in those posts.

[–]Blueegg[S] 1 insightful - 12 fun1 insightful - 11 fun2 insightful - 12 fun -  (2 children)

Why are you all so focused on directing your bitterness towards straight women?? Straight men are, in general, far more homophobic and fetishistic towards lesbians yet I see no mention of them. So why the obsession with straight women? it's like incel behavior

[–]yousaythosethings 41 insightful - 1 fun41 insightful - 0 fun42 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

u/Blueegg, where is your empathy and sense of nuance? Why are you cherry-picking and taking things out of context?

It's hilarious that you, a heterosexual women, think you have a better sense of the homophobia and lesbophobia that we experience and see in the world than we do. Straight men and straight women both often fetishize us. In this day and age, both try to misappropriate our sexual orientation and wear it as a costume. As it turns out, there are a lot of spaces for us to share those experiences about straight men such as s/LGBDropTheT, s/GenderCritical, and fucking anywhere because it's fashionable to complain about straight men everywhere. Why haven't you noticed that? But lesbians also face a great deal of homophobia/lesbophobia from many (but not all) straight and bisexual women that appears frustratingly invisible to everyone else because they cannot understand the dynamics or effects of it. This is our place to talk about that. I am a late-bloomer lesbian who has analyzed the grooming of mostly straight and some bisexual women by other straight and bisexual women in places like r/latebloomerlesbians to believe they're lesbians who then go speak on our behalf to our detriment. Likewise, you've glossed over the context, but surely you're reading the posts where even younger women who are cognizant of their attraction to men still call themselves lesbians and consider themselves to be lesbians. This is a problem uniquely experienced by no other sexual orientation than lesbians.

If you've analyzed our posts so thoroughly, don't pretend that you haven't seen any of this. Don't pretend you don't know exactly why we're upset with a specific subcategory of straight woman. That you don't understand, are unwilling to understand, lack sympathy, and are instead hostile and reactionary is exactly why you're not welcome to post here. Especially if your entire point is that we should talk about men more here. Why the fuck do you want us to talk more about men in a lesbian forum?

Your comment calling us incels is also hilariously off-base and tone-deaf in this context because you fail to point out that the type of woman being called out is the kind of woman that fetishizes us and thinks that (1) she should be able to speak on our behalf despite evidently not being homosexual, and that (2) we should be sexually available to her to solve her issues with men and her own feelings of dissatisfaction with her life.

[–]SickOfThisShitNow 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Toxic masculinity", "incel behaviour" (despite no one that I've seen wanting straight "lesbians" to sleep with us - Every post I've seen has been saying please leave us alone.). So much of this reveals how you don't see lesbians as real women. If you actually supported lesbians you would stop saying we are like men and be concerned about the appropriation of our language and spaces - including by straight women. But I actually don't expect straight women to support us - If they would just stay out of our spaces, stop co-opting our language and stop speaking over us on lesbian issues, that would be enough and I really don't think that's too much to ask.

[–]Gynephile 24 insightful - 9 fun24 insightful - 8 fun25 insightful - 9 fun -  (4 children)

I'm glad you used my comment. I still cannot stand straight women, I still couldn't care less about them! Big surprise but you're not that better than straight men and I could care less if you're a woman, I am not in solidarity with het women at all, I don't give a fuck if that offends you.

[–]begonia_skies 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For real, how many straight women are true allies to lesbians? This lady is a perfect example, everything is about them and the "gay rights" they support are almost always for and about gay men and maaaaaybe trans women (again, men....).

[–]BigMommyMilkers 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Lmaoo my man

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Gynephile 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    Wow. Thx I appreciate it <<<333

    [–]Lessom 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Funny how you don't mention the blatant lesbophobia and misogyny from the straight women pretending to be lesbians. Your 'allyship' is clearly on the basis that as long as we don't call out straight women for this , you are our 'supporter'.

    [–]SickOfThisShitNow 24 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    Ah, a lesbophobic radfem. I've seen this many times before. Lesbians complain about straight women in straight relationships calling themselves lesbians (in fact, IIRC, straight/bi women being the exclusive representatives of what it is to be a lesbian on a radio item supposedly about lesbians) and we are criticised for pointing this out and called "so-called lesbian women" - ie questioning whether we (female homosexuals) should even be allowed to call ourselves lesbians - because they don't just want us to be inclusive of straight/bi women - They want to redefine the word lesbian, speak for us and throw us out of the group if we don't conform to how straight/bi "lesbians" want us to behave. And we are supposed to be grateful for this support.

    [–]reader 17 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

    And then, they go and complain about redefining the word woman. The lack of self-awareness is astonishing.

    [–]SailorMoon2020 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Women aren't children, darling; they, we can hold our own. If your wittle weelings wre wurt then you're no different than those women who like to treat other women with passive aggressive behavior, or condescending statements as if every thing has to be explained to them like they're five.

    Grow up.

    [–]yousaythosethings 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm going to address the fact that you emphasize what a good ally you are and that you have always supported gay rights. Recent events have made it clear to me that a lot of putatively left wing people supported gay rights for reasons other than respect for male and female homosexuality. This is evidenced by the fact that it is now trendy for many of those same people to call our sexual orientation having "genital preferences" and the massive amount of pressure on lesbians and gay men to open ourselves up sexually and romantically to the opposite sex. Not to mention the perpetuation of the stereotype of bisexuals as promiscuous and undiscerning in supporting the idea that bisexuals have no excuse for turning down a mentally/personality-disordered person with a Mr. Potato Head assortment of organic and bootleg artificial parts.

    If you can't acknowledge and respect the existence of female homosexuality as a natural state of being, then it is clear that you were not an ally to us, but saw gay rights as a means to your own end. It's far more likely that your support was premised on weakening the patriarchy/straight men's position of power. So we were a means to an end and now you're upset that someone has turned the microscope on you. None of us are angels, but we all have the right to identify and call out our own oppressors. I hope you learn something from this.

    [–][deleted] 13 insightful - 10 fun13 insightful - 9 fun14 insightful - 10 fun -  (0 children)

    Leaving it up, but banned OP

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]ShotsFired 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      Those comments were not that awful imo. I don't think there's anything wrong with calling an idiot an idiot. OP seems to be surprised that we call out women on stupid behavior, she probably thinks lesbians love every single woman on the face of the planet by default.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]ShotsFired 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        That comment was actually

        I cannot stand straight women, some women have said that I am a misogynist because of this but I haven't found them to be any less homophobic than straight men. I couldn't care less about them

        I like how she took out the rest of the quote haha. That person wasn't just hating on straight women specifically. She was hating on straight people for being homophobic. But I can see how that would hurt feelings. Oh well. Like you said, this isn't her place.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]SickOfThisShitNow 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

          I assume she's frequenting the Lesbian forum because either a) as a straight radfem she views lesbians as basically a service class of women whose job it is to serve the feminist cause and support all (but of course mainly straight/bi) women - which is why we are called "so-called lesbians" for not being obedient little lesbians or b) her "Nige" (husband/boyfriend) is pissing her off so she's considering "becoming a lesbian" (ie cutting her hair short and calling herself a dyke) to piss him off and escape into this women-centred fantasy world that her radfem books tell her about.

          [–]Philliy 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Why as a straight woman are you in a space for lesbians?! And then you have the nerve to get mad about us venting. How does that make sense.

          [–]TheSunAlsoSucks 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          You kind of answered your own question, there. The women being mocked are heterosexual despite all the machinations and gyrations they go through to try to squeeze into the lesbian label. Hell, even YOU are here because somehow, you feel entitled to some degree of this label and therefore entitled to make your opinion heard.

          It doesn't apply to you. Lesbian isn't a description for anyone who feels like a woman and can visually see other women in their periphery. It is a valid and specific identity and the vitriol you are seeing is borne of years' worth of absolute bullshit.

          Enough is enough. And in my opinion, enough became too much about three overrun subs ago.

          I know it sounds harsh, but at this point we have tried talking. We have tried being nice. We have tried calmly and kindly asking to stop getting erased. It hasn't worked. And eventually, folks just lost patience. That this sub even has to exist is proof positive that people like you are destroying what was once a vibrant community that never caused harm to anyone.

          Fuck a whole bunch of that.

          [–]cervusc 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Another heterosexual trying to police and shame lesbians for discussing their experiences, how surprising. Lesbians are in no way obligated to humor your opinions. Heterosexuals have little respect for us or understanding of our lived experiences. Especially those who go around white knighting and concern trolling 'what about the straights??!!' in our communities, which in essence is exactly what you're doing here. Anyways, some of the most blatant and aggressive homophobia I've seen has been, you guessed it, from 'heterosexual feminist allies' who hate our guts. Trying to say that because we're all women we're all sympathetic to one another is a lie. Trying to guilt trip us into being submissive buttercups to heterosexuals is sickening.

          Plainly, there is no misogyny, you're twisting the words of the women here to suit your agenda. We tell it as it is. We're tired of having our identity misappropriated by heterosexuals who think its cute and trendy, dissolving the meanings of our words by rampant misuse. We don't exist to coddle the confused or curious. Bisexuals are not lesbians. Women are not men and will never be men. Even if we could somehow engage in toxic masculinity, where would it have been learned from? Oh, that's right. The straights. You all impose it upon us, expose us to it from day one along with all the other unsavory behaviors stemming from your patriarchy that you rigidly enforce.

          What we say offends you, because you're straight, not because we're women. There is no solidarity, just whining because it hurt your feelings that posters here aren't holding punches. If you want a safe space to get validated and salivated over for your supposed ally status, go post your beloved feelings on Reddit, at actuallesbians or something like that. They LOVE that kind of karma farming bullshit from the heteros.

          This community was not designed for you nor any of your other entitled hetero brethren that like hijacking everything from us. You don't belong here, never will belong here, and you know it. We're not interested in your 'but, but..what about me???' content. Go back to Reddit where they kiss your ass and grovel, because it isn't happening here.

          [–]DaniilDankovsky 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Pathetic

          [–]Borderline29 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

          Is internet. Maybe is like the incel hate but between lesb women with straight women? I have no idea.

          [–]TalerTest 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Umm no. Read the comments. There's no "incel hate" here.

          [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          comment you replied to: posted 9 hours ago

          account from commenter: created 9 hours ago

          I would be shocked if this wasn't OP again after being banned with very poorly disguised typing. In her other comment she compared lesbians to incels too.