Why can’t lesbian just be female homosexual?

submitted by CuntWorshiper from self.Lesbians

I’ll probably get banned for this post but whatever..

I know some may disagree but for me, as I see at this point, political lesbians are no different than transbias and bisexuals who larp as lesbian to look cool and sexy; they all appropriate lesbianism; they all give lesbians a hard time; they all feed lesbophobic fallacies. I think everyone can agree that the things lesbophobes like to say the most is:

  • “lesbians are women who hate men”.
  • “lesbians are just girls who were sexually abused”.
  • “she became lesbian because such and such” as it being a rational choice while believing in male homosexuality.

Many political “lesbians” at some point get tired of play pretend and then go to “I was a lesbian once but now (...)” but even when they don’t get tired of pretending they still go on and on trying to make lesbianism male-centric instead of simply sexual attraction towards women. I feel like no one respect female homosexuality, not even feminists. Bisexual women, bi/het political lesbians, transbias, they all might have have different reasoning for it but they are all equally willing to try to make lesbianism about everything but female homosexuality.

Been recently reading in this sub about how many have been sexually abused got me wondering how it must have very few actual lesbians, meaning actual homosexual women instead of ‘I have a problem with men’ women, in a already very small lesbian forum. I’m a lesbian because I just happen to be homosexual. It’s not a political statement nor a moral choice nor a sexual abuse cope. I just like women a lot and for some reason only get heated up and wet for women and that’s it, there are any other woman like that here? That are not here because dislike of how men treat you, or because feminism, or because sexual abuse, or because it’s cute, or because porn. But simply because you like women? Can’t no one relate to that!?

I can’t shake the feeling of being alienated in every ‘lesbian’ space I go, online and offline. I’m starting to understand why so many actual lesbians refuse to call themselves lesbians or participate in lesbian spaces. I wonder if this moment is coming to me.

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[–]Lessom 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I was agreeing with you until the sexual abuse part. I feel fortunate to have have not gone through such traumatic experience but would never shit on other lesbians who have by doubting them because of this. The fact of the matter is that sadly many girls and women regardless of their sexuality have been attacked by men.

[–]CuntWorshiper[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

The fact of the matter is that sadly many girls and women regardless of their sexuality have been attacked by men.

Yes. That’s true. It could happen of a lesbian get raped and in this case the rape has nothing to do with her sexual orientation but I’m not talking of this. I’m talking of women who “decide to become a lesbian” because they were sexually abused, or because mEn SuKc (might not be abused but have problems with men), those women do exist. You haven’t really looked around on internet you haven’t seen them yet, they are on anything “lesbian”. While I feel sorry for anyone who have been sexually abused, including them, I won’t stop see them as what they are and do to lesbians when talking of lesbian stuff. They appropriate lesbianism for political reasons and they feed lesbophobic bs and that’s not the only bad part, imagine you’re in a relationship with a woman and then find out that she isn’t doesn’t even genuinely like women, you’re just a cope tool for her to have a false sense of control!? They are political lesbians, political lesbians are bad for lesbians.

Being a rape victim can’t keep one from criticism when criticism fit. Understanding someone’s behavior originates from deep trauma don’t absolves them from their responsibilities nor necessitates our absolute silence tolerance.

Also, why don’t they just stop putting themselves in relationships with men? If they don’t want to be in relationships with men, or have anything to do with men because of trauma. They don’t need to be “lesbians” for that, as far as I know, hetero/bi women have the right not to fuck men as much as lesbians do.

But my annoyance is more than just what sexually abused political lesbians. My annoyance is that everyone non lesbian feel entitled to lesbianism despite the requirements for ‘lesbian’ being so simple. My annoyance is that, even in so called “lesbian spaces” I have to be thinking of who is actually lesbian and who is not because everyone else already went so far at turning ‘lesbian’ into political statement, hobby, fetish, moral choice, trauma cope, sexy attention magnet or whatever. It seems lesbianism is everything but female homosexuality. Lesbians are not only rare on “open world” they are also rare on “lesbian spaces”, that’s the annoying depressing thing. But of course, it’s too politically incorrect so you to ever say it out loud. See, another annoying thing, everyone is entitled to their opinion but lesbians have to think twice about what they say not to hurt transbias, not to hurt bisexuals, not to hurt men, not to hurt political lesbian.

[–]CatsOrGoHome 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My annoyance is that, even in so called “lesbian spaces” I have to be thinking of who is actually lesbian and who is not because everyone else already went so far at turning ‘lesbian’ into political statement, hobby, fetish, moral choice, trauma cope, sexy attention magnet or whatever. It seems lesbianism is everything but female homosexuality. Lesbians are not only rare on “open world” they are also rare on “lesbian spaces”, that’s the annoying depressing thing. But of course, it’s too politically incorrect so you to ever say it out loud.

This right here and the rest of what you said have summarized what I feel too. People here are assuming you are attacking rape victims when you are criticizing the fact a lot of "lesbians" just have a problem with men due to their trauma. I know this is a general internet problem, but I wish people here would get some basic reading comprehension. If you are an actual lesbian, you would immediately understand what she is trying to say.

[–]Lessom 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

'Been recently reading in this sub about how many have been sexually abused got me wondering how it must have very few actual lesbians, meaning actual homosexual women instead of ‘I have a problem with men’ women, in a already very small lesbian forum'.

To clarify further, I was responding to the above point you made in the original post. From my understanding, you read about many people here talking about being sexually abused and are doubting whether these women are actual lesbians?

Like I already said, I agree with the points you were making before this and that being a lesbian is only about being a female homosexual and not a political statement or hating the opposite sex. My point was that women being victim to sexual abuse is so common that its not hard to believe there are many genuine lesbians posting here about their trauma. Its the internet, it gives them sense of anonymity and there aren't many lesbian spaces to begin with. Sexual abuse victims or any other non lesbians that larp as lesbians is ofcourse never justifiable

It is frustrating due to the fakebians there is an environment of constant mistrust and doubt about who is or isn't a lesbian in so called lesbian spaces/real life.

[–]Wot 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

My point was that women being victim to sexual abuse is so common that its not hard to believe there are many genuine lesbians posting here about their trauma

But it works both ways because it's also not hard to believe that many of these victims aren't lesbians given how prevalent sexual assault is too. Given how rare lesbianism seems to be due to how there seems to be many more liars than actual homosexual women I get it. If we were in just small number then people would have a harder time denying lesbianism is real in and of itself but because so many are lying (or lesbophobes) then they have a leg to stand on. That's how bad it is. Hell, if these hurt women whom are just co-opters were so small in number they wouldn't have been able to make it an political movement out of it and paint it as a morally correct choice for women's liberation - as a means to our literal freedom. When I revealed myself to be a misandrist, lesbians here made it seem like I was actually bisexual for the same sentiment. They said lesbians don't hate men, they're just indifferent and to hate men is sus af. So, I'm surprised so many here are pretending not to get it.

[–]ShotsFired 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You can be a misandrist. But if you talk about nothing but men men men 24/7 you can't blame other lesbians for thinking you are just a political lesbian.

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The reason why I tend to be skitty around misandrist lesbians is because hatred is such a strong emotion, it gives men way too much emotional and mental real estate. I'd rather be with a woman who's completely apathetic towards men because discussion of men in almost any context bores me. I don't care if it's talking about how much they suck, they're irrelevant in a lesbian relationship and I'd like to bask in that freedom

[–]Wot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'd rather be with a woman who's completely apathetic towards men because discussion of men in almost any context bores me

I respect this but it'd make more sense if we lived on a planet away from men and their power and violence and the adverse living conditions so many are forced into living, including our friends and families but we don't. If you have the privilege for that to be a non-factor than good for you but I wish this was recognized as a privilege.

[–]Golly 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Feels great to be privileged 😎

[–]Wot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, go you

[–]Dudukolo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Agreed with this.

That's so strange. Why do they think lesbians can't be misandrist and must be indifferent or neutral to males?

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's the level of hate/dislike. I don't like alcohol because I think it tastes bad. That dislike is different from someone who hates alcohol because they had a long battle with alcoholism and feel that alcohol ruined their life. For the most part, extreme misandry is of the spurned lover/fury the likes of which hell hath no type, and those tend to come from bihet women.

[–]piylot 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's true in that context, but what about people who hate someone who was cruel to them? They don't have to have previously loved them to feel hatred. You could hate a political figure, someone who robbed you, a teacher who treated you unfairly etc, doesn't mean you're secretly in love with them. A woman could have all sorts of non-romantic experiences with men that could leave a sense of hatred towards them, I don't doubt it personally.

[–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Preaaaaaaaaaaaach !!!

[–]piylot 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You read accounts of women talking about the sexual abuse they've experienced and your reaction was to think they must not really be lesbians and feel alienated and sorry for yourself...

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As a lesbian who was sexually abuse at 14 and yet knew I was a lesbian at 9, its so fucked up that people like this poster exist. Reading that made me physically nauseous. It is MEN who say we are lesbians just because we have been through abuse and now this asshole is perpetuating that harmful stereotype.

a TON of women get sexually abused. it has nothing to do with the ones of us who are gay.

[–]Icebridge 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agree completely. I've fortunately never been abused but i find ops outlook on this disgusting. It's interesting to me that so many women are abused but its lesbians that get thier sexuality explained by this. Its a very obvious "explain why she is broken" rationale, when lesbian is the "broken" part. I never see childhood abuse used as the justification for why gay men are gay either, whether the abuse was perpetated by a female or male. Furthermore, if you hate/dislike men as a class you probably aren't a real lesbian is... such a wild take on a sub made up primarily of radfems lol.

[–]piylot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agree with it all except people are definitely using it to explain why gay men are gay, if you haven't encountered that that's just selection bias. Also, a lot less people here are radfems than you might initially assume.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Wow. The sexual abuse thing you said is fucked up.

I knew I was a lesbian at age 9. I was caught kissing a female friend at 10

It is MEN who say we are lesbians just because we have been through abuse and now you are perpetuating that harmful stereotype.

I was sexually abused by my male cousin at 14. Now people like you invalidate my sexuality because I was sexually abused. Fuck you.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“I just like women a lot and for some reason only get heated up and wet for women and that’s it, there are any other woman like that here?”

Me right here. Tbh the “heated up and wet for women” is one of the most relatable things I think I’ve ever read on here. I can relate to you and that very much. It’ll be okay just give it time.

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah... I completely understand. I don't know any real lesbians in real life, only women who claim to be lesbians while still dating and hooking up with men, women who claim to be lesbians but think vulvas are gross, women who claim to be lesbians but constantly talk about their male celebrity crushes... It's honestly just gross, disheartening and as you succinctly put it, alienating. I don't trust anyone who says they're a lesbian anymore because 9/10 they're not actually homosexual. I'm beginning to think true homosexuality is even like 0.5% of women or even less, as in the true homosexuality of never having thought of men sexually AT ALL. With most lesbians I speak to they all seem to have exceptions, or would fuck Leonardo dicaprio, and no one seems to get that I have the same amount of sexual interest in any man as I have towards roadkill. People just don't get the total lack of anything there, and they think they must be lesbians because they like women, or even like 99% women but true homosexuality is pretty rare in my opinion...

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Women are beautiful, just imagining the concept of waking up next to a faceless woman or being held in a women's arms makes me so warm and maple-syrupy inside, the mere thought it simply amazing. Looking at even a picture of a woman I'm attracted to just makes the attraction so strong and apparent, it's insane. I cannot deal with people who feel so tepid and shallow for women and claim to be lesbians all while gushing over men, celebrities or otherwise. Ugh

[–]lovelyspearmint 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even when talking about good looking celebrities, I'm more likely to show admiration and interest in women as opposed to men.

[–]berlin13 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not sure what I think about this post but I can 100% relate to “ I don't trust anyone who says they're a lesbian anymore because 9/10 they're not actually homosexual”

[–]lovelyspearmint 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I, for example, find it hard to explain to other people why I call myself a lesbian despite finding handsome men aesthetically beautiful/pleasing (as in 'i love watching this handsome actor'). It's just that. I don't get hot and bothered over men, I find being close to men disgusting and from the few attempts at being straight, I'd be sickened at the thought of kissing or having sex with these dates; let's not even start on how disgusting penises look. Women are different, I love everything about women, from head to toe, I love being in proximity to women and I've never felt about men the way I do about women.

However, I too have met so-called lesbians who lust over men, so they're either bisexuals in denial or straight and wanting to feel special by using an inappropriate label.

(Edit: I meant why I find it hard to explain to other people why. I'm very sure in being a lesbian ;) )

[–]RedditHatesLesbians 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right, I don't mean people who just find certain males handsome. Women can find other women beautiful without being bisexual. But, when you're constantly talking about how hot a male celebrity is and you don't do the same with women it just leaves a bad taste in my mind. Personally I don't find any man aesthetically pleasing and I just don't get why anyone would, I'm always looking at the women on the TV screen. But when it comes to purely aesthetics it's like debating which painting is prettier, it's subjective and doesn't have much to do with sexuality. Your own body tells you if you're sexually attracted to men you find beautiful and repulsion is a sign a woman is a lesbian.

[–]Wot 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I definitely feel you, OP and was despairing about the same thing on a lesbian/bisexual Facebook group some years back. I can laugh now about the idea that perhaps this is the definitive lesbian experience lol. Idk if you saw my other thread about how we should let go of the lesbian label and adopt another one but it was for these very reasons you stated. I made that thread because I feel if we get another one we can draw a line in the sand harder to gatekeep and compel others to police this label for us on our behalf and actually have a chance at authentic lesbian community. Perhaps one or two people were feeling it but it didn't fly. I don't really care what has to be given up, I'm tired of things being this way and want to fight back. And tho I mentioned in another thread I'm a misandrist, I was a lesbian long before then, a lesbian when I thought men were inherently cooler and more intelligent and still one now that I'm not such a idiot.

Women stop time for me, when women experience pleasure that is what turns me on. That's why I think I'm sorta a cuck, because it pretty much doesn't matter where women are getting that pleasure from, the fact it does it for her does it for me. Even when I've heard women talking about men having these amazing personalities or stunning features or great sex and I meet and became friends with these type of men that never drew me. Even when they were friendly to me or made it clear they'd fuck me the only thing notable was the fact that they'd made a pass at a woman with a mustache lol. With women, I always want them around. I always want to hear what they have to say. I'm always curious about her world, I always get giddy when one shows me a speck of affection, I always want to see her how she really is and not what the world demands she be like. Warts and all. My world just becomes more vivid, my mind beings to world build and I wish to strip us of our suffering and fears in a profound way. I want to go the distance for women, I cannot explain this love. Though this love has recently been being fed for some political reasons as well, even before, when I was blissfully unaware of sex based oppression, I never felt that way about men. I admired men if there was something to admire and wanted certain qualities for myself but never them. Harder to convince people of that now but idc. I don't think anyone precieves us of having a legitimate sexuality anyway. You aren't alone tho, OP.

[–]bluetinfoilhat 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of women who promote "political lesbianism" are actually lesbian(as in exclusively attracted to women) and accuse straight women who find it offensive homophobic. So it is not just "bi-hets" or straight women pushing this. Some-- not all--- lesbians who are separatist feminist/radical feminist think deep down all straight women can be made into a lesbian.