How often do you experience lesbophobia?

submitted by QueenOfTheNorth from self.Lesbians

Do you think lesbians face discrimination, particularly in the Western world where marriage is legal? If you are not from those areas how is homosexuality in women seen in your country? How often does it impact you directly or indirectly?

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[–]Destresse 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

As a person, never, because I'm only out to family and close friends.

I honestly don't witness it much either. I just see the lack of knowledge, which is to be expected. The common assumptions, the wild hypothesises. Lol

I see people being confused and curious about it, basically. I have seen straight people explaining homosexuality wrong to other straight people, and meanwhile I sat there staring a hole into my shoe and screaming internally lol.

I honestly wish everyone understood what homosexuality is and our specific struggles. I dislike having all eyes and attention on me as I explain something very intimate and visceral. The most asked question when coming out to straight people: how do you know? Uh. I don't want to tell you about what turns me on lmao. Isn't it obvious?? This is why I don't come out and rarely talk about it with straight or even bisexual people.

[–]oofreesouloo 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I see people being confused and curious about it, basically. I have seen straight people explaining homosexuality wrong to other straight people, and meanwhile I sat there staring a hole into my shoe and screaming internally lol.

OMG, I feel you so much. This has happened to me several times. Once, I heard two guys (which were my peers by the way) discussing whether lesbians missed dick or not during sex...................................... and they concluded that "probably". I was like literally beside them hearing that cringing so hard............

[–]Jinera 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I am from the Netherlands, which I consider to be one of the most accepting countries when it comes to homosexuality.

From my own family I haven't encountered any homophobia - at worst, my dad believes femme lesbians do not really exist and they'll all end up with a man. Basically to him, if you look feminine then you cannot be a real lesbian.

When I came out I went to a non-religious high school, in my city there's a christian high school and a non-religious one. All of the muslims in my city go to the non-religious one. I did get a lot of nasty comments about my sexuality there, about how it's unnatural and a disease. But no real violence.

When I changed to go to the christian high school all of that stopped, they were very accepting.

My ex was pakistani (living in the UK) and came from a conservative muslim family, she dealt with a lot of homophobia. This also opened my eyes to the fact that most muslims in my country will not accept me, and judge me. I mean, I know most of them already do not like white girls (white girls are sluts according to a lot of them - the older generation at least, but I also know that a large part of the younger generation believes this. Girls aren't allowed to befriend white girls, and boys will date white girls to have some fun before settling down to marry), let alone a lesbian one haha! So whenever I walk around in cities with a lot of immigrants, like Rotterdam or Amsterdam, hand in hand with a girl I do get stared at, or get called names.

Ironically, when I was in brazil a year ago for three weeks, this did not happen. Not in Rio (where I can imagine the general population to be more accepting due to exposure to tourists and easier access to education), but also in the small city that my ex lived in over an hour away (the "lesbians date women all over the world" is very much true for me lol). I could walk hand in hand and no one would say a thing, or stare at us at all. I felt completely normal. (on another note, it was also the first time I could walk around in short dresses without a single man cat calling me in my entire life!! I did have a man coming up to me to ask me if I could do a photoshoot for him, he was a legit photographer, but that just felt flattering).

I also lived in the biblebelt for a couple of months, but I didn't receive any hatred there either. Most of them will probably be against gay marriage, but they really won't bother you about it if you're an outsider from the community.

Last week I was walking my date (girlfriend?) from the metrostation to my home. I live in a small city, and it was only a short walk. We held hands, because I love holding hands - it's intimate without taking energy, and it allows me to show off my date/girlfriend in an appropriate way. In the five minute walk I felt very unsafe, people kept staring and I was anxious they would say something or bother us. Especially young men walking in groups together - it scares me. My date is Moroccan, and I know people will think of her as a traitor for dating a white girl and for dating a girl in general. I felt so uncomfortable, that made me realise that, yes, we do still face discrimination. I don't think a single heterosexual couple is genuinely scared to get bothered just for holding hands while walking outside.

[–]lovelyspearmint 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's awful to hear that you can't even hold hands when walking outside. On a single hour long visit to a mall, I saw four or five different straight couples making out (kissing vigorously) and everyone just quietly moved around them, not even batting an eye, and yet people stare if the same sex are holding hands. I'll also mention I'm from a western country and while they like think they're liberal, it's in fact quite conservative and deeply racist (from my experience of speaking another language outside of my home).

[–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't think a single heterosexual couple is genuinely scared to get bothered just for holding hands while walking outside.

Interracial heterosexual couples are depending on location and demographic, and history of that location, same for monoracial minority couples. I think this can also play for Interracial lesbian couples.

I was on this one forum and this black woman was talking about how she wouldn't date a Mexican woman in Compton. Apparently the division is so big between black people and Hispanics, that many Interracial couples have gotten assaulted. Many others vouched her encounter who were from CA.

Quite surprised you would say the above because many girls like your date have been raped and even killed for dating white men.

[–]PeanutAllergy 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah that's true. But I think what she meant is that no one will ever harass a couple for being heterosexual, it's completely unheard of. Of course there are other reasons people will harass couples.

[–]oofreesouloo 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, lesbians do. I have. In my country, overall people are okay with gay people. It depends - there are places more homophobic than others and even within the same place, depending in the environment/context you're in or people you're with, you can get extremely LGB friendly places OR homophobic/people very uncomfortable with it. But overall, it's okay.

The problem here is that there's absolutely 0 lesbian visibility. We have literally nothing here. I'm practically always the first homosexual woman people meet or at least hear of. This means I have to, more often than not, deconstruct all the stigma associated with being a lesbian. What I mean by this is: No, I don't have any problem or trauma with men. No, I'm not going through a phase because I haven't met the right guy yet. No, I don't like women because I think they're this magical perfect flawless beings that are incapable of hurting anyone (lmaoo). No, I don't secretly like men. No, I'm not a man-hating person. And list goes on and on.

Overall, it's tiring. I'm just a woman who likes other women bruh. It's simple as that. But when people don't have lesbian visibility, they make their ideas of what a lesbian is through the harmful prejudice they've listened or heard of.

The same doesn't apply do gay men or bisexual women. You do have gay men visibility here AND places for them (bars, discos, etc) and people usually meet at the very least one flamboyant gay guy during their lives. Bisexual women seem to also have some visibility here. The only people that I don't hear of, besides lesbians, is bisexual men and I'm certain it's because of the stigma. They're certainly out there, just like lesbians are.

So, I would say lesbians and bi men are on the same "level of visibility" here from where I'm from, which is zero lmao. It's not "cool" to be a lesbian nor a bi man, it's stigmatized. Lesbians are also afraid of being fetishized and sexualized. And bi men, I suppose, are afraid their gf will think they're secretly gay or something, like becoming unappealing for women. Oh well.

[–]yousaythosethings 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The bisexual men and lesbian connection is interesting, but I get what you’re saying.

Where I am, lesbians are stigmatized for our lack of attraction to men and not so much for attraction to women, because our culture pushes for female bisexuality. Lack of attraction to men is viewed as suspect and a motivated act or choice, not a natural phenomenon. Hence, there is a major divide in experience between lesbians and bisexual women. It frustrates me that a lot of bisexual women are unwilling to understand this. But there are chill bisexual women who do. I wish they were the dominant voice though. So lesbian women tend to be very quiet about their sexual orientation, even when openly dating women. They’re not the kind of people to say “I don’t like to put a label on things” and they don’t make a big deal about labels (that tends to be a more bisexual move in my experience) but they’re just quiet about it, not in denial about it.

In contrast, gay men and bisexual men are most stigmatized for their attraction to men. But there is a belief that attraction to men is a one-way street, so bisexual men either have incentive to identify as straight or gay. Because straight and even some bisexual women are going to view a bisexual man as functionally gay but also not “safe gay” in the gay BFF kind of way.

[–]LesChameleon 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Where I live (central Europe), there's a lot of attempts of lesbian erasure. Unfortunately, it usually comes from people mostly identifying as bisexual or queer, who try to pass the narrative "everyone's sexuality is fluid", "you don't need to identify as lesbian, you can just use the term 'queer'", etc. To me, those things are straight-up invalidating and a direct attack on lesbians - I am sure that I am only attracted to women and that's what a lesbian is. Therefore, I will use our label instead of defining myself vaguely as queer or sth else.

When I say to those people that I won't accept the 'queer' label they basically get offended. Meanwhile, I'd never try forcing a bisexual or a queer girl to label herself as a lesbian. Also, there's been a huge erasure in terms of lesbian events and spaces, you can no longer see events being called "Lesbian meetup" or "Lesbian workshop..", now it's all become 'queer' because unless you name it that way there's this huge backlash online.

These things really bother me on a personal level. I feel like I constantly have to be cautious of what I say in front of other members of the LGBT community because I never know who's into what and who will attack you for just defining yourself and rejecting men or trans people (in terms of dating). It's really hard to get to know and make friends with other lesbians so I feel like I don't really have a community IRL, which is very sad. Before coming out, I had believed that, once I came out, I'd have a real community, but that just never happened (even though I lived in various EU countries).

[–]Starburns 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm in the US and I get sexually harassed at work frequently for being gender non-conforming. Usually it's just being propositioned for threesomes by women with husbands but I've also experienced targeted sexual harassment by a superior that significantly negatively impacted my career and limited my future options because I reported it. I was also physically assaulted as a child for holding my girlfriend's hand at recess which contributed to me repressing my sexuality for years. So I think there's still a long way to go for true acceptance.

[–]lovelyspearmint 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't had a girlfriend, so I can't comment on that, but most of my family are from a country where the word for 'gay' comes from the word pederast (pedophile), so I haven't come out to them in case they start thinking that a) I'm a pedophile, and b) I'm mentally ill (many still think that it's a mental illness, from conversations I've had with them about the subject). Even though their prime minister is a lesbian, there's still a deeply backwards and religious majority in the country. I mean, if they won't allow men to stand (no sitting in these churches, god help you) with women in church, how can you expect them to accept homosexuality (and bisexuality)?

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I heard anti-lesbian remarks regularly during my childhood, but not so much anymore (moved out and away from those people). Homophobic conservative religion in the US. There's a certain subset of straight women who really hate lesbians specifically...

It impacts me because it is basically why I am ashamed of being a woman attracted to other women. Trying to work on that currently.

[–]Wot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's a certain subset of straight women who really hate lesbians specifically

Have they ever mentioned why?

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, for most that I have heard: "gay men are so cute/wholesome/empathetic because they're gay, I love gay men! Lesbians are gross, two women making out is gross..." These straight women idealize, have crushed on, and sometimes even fetishize gay men, but they are actually homophobic so they are grossed out by lesbian women. I'll link another discussion I was in recently about this.

One person in particular, one of my relatives, is really misogynistic-- she hates pretty much all women (even though she is a woman lol) so that's part of why she hates lesbians so much-- "2 women in a relationship is the worst possible scenario" in her book. It's not logical, it makes no sense, but that's where it comes from. Misogyny and homophobia.

edit: This may not directly answer your question but, about straight women who fetishize gay men: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7hq3/50_years_after_stonewall_we_are_now_fighting/s6ze

The straight women who I have heard IRL gush over gay men often are very uncomfortable with lesbians, but a few of them go so far as to outright hate lesbians. (I grew up in a homophobic religion though, so YMMV, not all straight women are like this.)

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The last time I experienced it was in September. Some neighbors who I befriended that seemed nice ended up being weird as fuck and started making comments close to when we were supposed to all go on a trip together like “why don’t you start dating (insert neighbors name) you all get a long...” “couldn’t you just switch back” “you could just go straight for a week and try it out”. Needless to say I did not go on that trip and blocked all their numbers. But that was the most recent lesbophobic thing that had happened to me in a while. I guess physically I pass as straight looking and it really upsets people sometimes when I don’t fit in the mold they seem to think I should.

My dad had said some really fucked up shit to me that I’m not going to repeat because it really is disgusting.

[–]whateverbeaver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

From the younger generation, even if they’re queers, not so much, they leave me alone lol. 50+, yes but more subtle, seeing I’m person from NYC. It’s more of seeing orientation as a preference and being ok with my “preference” and getting things like “one day, if you do end up with a man..” or other really tone-deaf things. Even with how wacked Gez Z is, I don’t often hear this from them. I hear it sometimes from older Gen Ys.