Are goldstars becoming more common among the younger generation of lesbians in the West?

submitted by Dudukolo from self.Lesbians

Just asking out of curiosity. Because in my very conservative religious non-Western country, goldstars including me are the norm here among lesbians. Premarital sex and dating for both women and men is heavily frowned upon here due to the traditional culture in my country and you will be heavily shamed or even disowned by your family if found out. As a result, most lesbians here are goldstars (this is from my interaction with other lesbians), even straight women here tend to be virgins before marriage due to the stigma and shame against premarital sex and relationships. Btw, there is no culture of arranged or forced marriage here, so a lot of lesbians here end up being spinsters or living in secret relationships here while pretending to be single on the outside. I have talk to other lesbians from many other conservative non-Western countries and it seems goldstars are the norm there as well due to the stigma against premarital sex and dating.

In fact, most lesbians who aren't goldstars that I have ever interacted with tend to be from "liberal, progressive" Western countries like the USA, UK, etc where there is also heavily woke and kweer culture. I believe this is because that in Western society, virginity is stigmatize and seen as a sign of being "loser and prude" and that there seems to be haevy pressure for people to be sex-positive to anyone and sexually active in an early age even if it means dating and sleeping with someone you are not even attracted to.

I read that nowadays zoomers in America and other parts of the West especially males are having much less sex and that rates of virginity among young men are increasing due to factors such as porn accessibility, social media, more dependence on parents etc. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/young-adults-especially-men-having-sex-less-frequently https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/feb/03/quality-over-quantity-gen-zs-sex-recession-looks-more-like-an-upturn https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1111607604348805120%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.joe.ie%2Flife-style%2Famount-men-30-not-sex-nearly-tripled-past-decade-663846

So I'm wondering if goldstars are more common now among young Western lesbians as there are less pressure to date, fuck or marry males if zoomer dudes are now having much less sex and the rate of virgnity is rapidly increasing among young men?

Just asking out of curiosity here.

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[–]lovelyspearmint 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

When I was younger and thought I had to be with a guy even though I wasn't interested in them, I found most dating prospects unflattering.

I don't know if it's just where I'm at, but a great deal of straight men don't seem to care about presentation or personal hygiene anymore. Their clothes smelled musty, had brown between their teeth and clearly hadn't washed in a while. Their clothes were also daggy too.

Even if I were dating them, which I thankfully never did, I'd balk at the idea of having sex. If that's what they're like in clothes, god knows how bad they'd be undressed.

Maybe they're just not putting in the effort anymore, and then going online and complaining about how they're not getting any?

[–]Dudukolo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

May I ask if you are from a Western country?

That's interesting. How common are goldstars among lesbians where you live?

Do you think this is also lead to the social phenomenon of incels/redpillers/MGTOWs?

[–]lovelyspearmint 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am. In my area, at least, lesbians are rare and all the ones I know are older women, so gold star status isn't something I'd feel comfortable asking them about (as long as I've known them, they've been with women).

I think this sort of behaviour/attitude is a breeding ground for male radicalisation, especially since I never saw anyone call it out, i.e., peers wouldn't reprimand them for their poor appearance, hygiene, so they would think women are the problem and not them.

[–]Shales123 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I'm in the US but I grew up religious so I'm a goldstar for the same reason that you are. But I completely agree with your analysis of western culture

[–]Dudukolo[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Interesting do you think religion is the main reason why you become a goldstar?

Actually I also have met a lot of religious lesbians from the West who claim that due to religion, they have no choice but to date, fuck or marry males as their families see homosexuality as a big sin. Which is strange because I thought if you strictly adhere to your religion, you can actually claim to be saving yourself for marriage to avoid dating or sleeping with males as Christianity and other religions is also heavily against premarital sex and dating as well, seeing it as a big sin. Or are a lot of Western Christians actually only "Christian" in name and their ID cards aka very secular and liberal and nitpick the tenets of the religion they wanted to follow and abandoned other stuff?

[–][deleted]  (8 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    I see. Do you think if you were from a liberal or secular background, you would feel much more pressure to lose your virginity with some dude or be sexually positive and date and fuck a bloke even if you are not attracted to males even a bit?

    Is it possible that a lot of women who lied that they have to fuck dudes due to religion are actually not lesbians but bis with heavy preference for women or just heavily regret their decisions and thus to try find excuses?

    Also is it true that zoomers are having much less sex in the West and virginity rates are increasing among young males? That should makes its easier for lesbians even closeted ones to be goldstars if they feel much less pressure to date, fuck or marry males.

    Btw do you mind if I pm you for something?

    [–]oofreesouloo 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I know I'm not the one you were talking to, but I thought I'd share my experience. I came out as lesbian to many people (including parents) at 14. I've felt a HUGE pressure to date guys ESPECIALLY since coming out, in particular from my mother, hoping I would "end up with a guy". I've heard it from plenty of people all the most stupid things possible, like "you haven't met a mature guy yet", "how do you kow you won't like it if you never tried it?", "you only say you like girls because you think the love is more "sweet" LMAO, "there's few guys in our class", and so on. I am very resilient and I stood my ground and I always stood up for MYSELF, so I ended up a gold star. But I can totally understand why a more insecure lesbian would try to date some guy to fit in or to please unaccepting or homophobic parents, because as teenagers that's all we want to feel - to fit in with the rest. It was tough for me, despite being able to stand my ground.

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Holy shit your mother seems crazy. Its great that you have a lot of resilience and backbone. How common are gold stars among young lesbians in your country?

    Are you from a religious or conservative background? Where I live, its rather easy to be a goldstar due to extreme stigma towards premarital sex and relationships and that virginity is highly expected and valued for both girls and guys.

    Also forced or arranged marriages are very uncommon here, so most lesbians here can remain spinsters for life or be in secret relationships while pretending to be a spinster or single in public.

    [–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I barely know any lesbians in my country. We have zero visibility here, so I really, honestly don't know. I happen to meet more bi women though. I'm not from a religious or conservative background, but that doesn't mean homosexuality isn't still stigmatized. It is and that was what lead to my mother's reaction. That being gay is somehow "abnormal".

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    That's so sad. May I ask if it is a Western country? I would thought that Western countries would be more liberal and progressive in these areas?

    [–]oofreesouloo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It is. And it is actually more of a liberal country. Gays are okay here overall. But it doesn't mean we don't get stigmatized from time to time and It highly depends on your family and friends and context. Here you can either find incredibly LGB friendly people or extremely regressive conservative people.

    [–]Shales123 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I didn't say that there's no social pressure to be straight, I said that in US, religions generally don't force lesbians to fuck men unless it's a fringe cult and they're having an arranged marriage

    [–]Shales123 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Btw do you mind if I pm you for something?

    Go ahead

    [–]piylot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I think we're only going to get biased speculating since nobody's doing studies on this, and nobody is asking lesbians of multiple generations the details of their sex lives.

    But to contribute my speculation, I've observed some countries have gone from being heavily religiously influenced to taking on a culture with much more secular liberal beliefs like the USA, meaning the young people of today are very rarely ~waiting for marriage, where as with their parents generation this was seen as the norm and shameful not to. I imagine that would contribute to their being less goldstars today.

    But this change of culture has also meant that lesbians can live fairly normal lives without fear of being shunned, disowned, or systematically discriminated against. They may have been goldstars before but they were probably also living in convents, and those who weren't goldstars were in marriages they were taught they had to tolerate even if they were unhappy.

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I agreed and point taken, but I actually have been reading that zoomers especially males are having much less sex than their parent generations and that rates of virginity are increasing among young males due to social media, access to porn, and other stuff. So I would presumed that goldstars are now more common among younger generations of lesbians in the West as there are now much less pressure to date, sleep with or marry dudes?

    https://www.joe.ie/life-style/amount-men-30-not-sex-nearly-tripled-past-decade-663846 https://twitter.com/_cingraham/status/1111607604348805120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1111607604348805120%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.joe.ie%2Flife-style%2Famount-men-30-not-sex-nearly-tripled-past-decade-663846

    [–]piylot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I've heard that too but don't know how if the same is true of women. I get the impression that the men nowadays not having sex are less likely to attribute this to "not feeling pressured" and more likely to attribute this to a lack of opportunities, especially as the average marriage age increases. I don't think that necessarily has the same knock-on effect towards women.

    If you've ever browsed redpill/incel forums (solely out of morbid curiousity or otherwise) the theorising goes that as there is less focus on settling down there becomes a bigger window where people are having casual sexual encounters or short term relationships. This is likely also facilitated by increasingly casual attitudes towards sex, though I'm not sure if the rp community touch on this. Women tend to be more choosy than men, and so ~80% of women end up sleeping with the top 20% of men in terms of sexual value, and most often these men are older than women too. So there becomes a discrepancy between sexes where most young women have had casual sex and less men have. I'm not promoting redpill views here, I have my own issues with it, but those sorts of studies you're reading are highly cited in redpill groups, just giving more context on the hypothesis (to save you from needing to go into those forums to do your own research)

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Thanks for the info and explanation!

    Don't worry, I browsed redpill/incel forums before. i actually find the comments pretty interesting tbh. I think it reflects what a lot of younger Western men thinks of women.

    Do you also agreed with these redpill/incels that young men are having much less sex while for women it remains the same or even increasing?

    [–]piylot 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I don't think it's a matter of opinion, I don't actually know the stats on whether it's true or not. In my experience as a teen my female friends more often had sex younger than our males friends though

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I C. Do you think this is a positive (men having much less sex which I assume would make them feel less entitled to women bodies and may positively indirectly impact young lesbians as well as they might feel less heteronormative/"comphet" (I really dislike this term) pressure) or negative thing (creating more incels/redpillers/MGTOWs/MRAs due to higher rates of male virginity and sexlessness)?

    Btw can I also ask you something in PM?

    [–]piylot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't think not having the opportunity to have sex makes misogynistic men feel less entitled to women's bodies. Incels are the prime example of this. They even seem to in most cases attribute their resentment towards women to their lack of sex. I don't think that's fair or true but I don't think it solves anything either.

    And if the female standard is still to start having sex in mid-late teens (unconfirmed whether rates of young women or teenage girls having sex is actually in decline) then I don't think we could conclude that anything has changed in terms of the social expectations on women.

    You can send me a pm

    [–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    This is not really an answer to your question, but there was a user u/StoneyTangawizi1 who posted a thread about this a while back and seemed very passionate about it. You might be interested in talking to her.

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Thanks. I can try to contact her although I heard she was banned.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    No problem. Yeah, she was asking some kind of weird questions at one point. Actually from your comments it seems you already know her, so I guess my comment was redundant, sorry lol.

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yep I actually know her. She is a friend of mine.

    [–]genova 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    virginity is stigmatize and seen as a sign of being "loser and prude" and that there seems to be haevy pressure for people to be sex-positive to anyone and sexually active in an early age

    yes. i specifically remember it being my birthday, and thinking "i need to get this over with". I thought it was a social milestone i needed to fulfill. terrible. wrecked my mental health.

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Did you lose virginity? I hope you didn't do it if you don't want to and not with someone you don't even feel attracted to.

    [–]QueenOfTheNorth 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Young people are having less sex in general because of environmental toxins.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/pollution-penis-shrink-sperm-count-b1821863.html

    [–]Dudukolo[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Make sense! Although I supported young men having much less sex.