Silent SmugglersFlawed Argument

submitted by wizzwizz4 from self.LogicPuzzles

Two smugglers are walking through the forest at night, taking care not to be heard amidst the leaves and branches, so as to not be caught.

Smuggler A: *whispered* Stop being so loud.

Smuggler B: *whispered* I'm not being loud!

They stop.

Smuggler A: You're louder than me.

Smuggler B: You're not loud!

Smuggler A: I'm not loud. You're louder than not loud. Therefore, you're loud.

Smuggler B: That's preposterous! If—

A light is visible nearby.

What do we know about who's being loud, and who isn't?

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[–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Does anyone have a dB meter? I think we'd have to actually measure to determine an absolute value for each, and we could then compare it to general night time forest noise levels and then do some math to see how far their noise would be perceptible at a distance that they were concerned about.

I'd be more interested in the noise of them moving through the forest itself, as people can talk pretty quietly, even more so than when whispering, which changes the spectra of the sound but can increase peak volumes in different bands.

So, this is not a logic problem, but a practical one. Edited to spoil

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Found the engineer.

Also, spoilers for answers. Spoiler syntax is:

>! spoiler

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don't know whether I'm right about this; just because I made the puzzle doesn't mean I know the right answer.

Assuming that the things that one smuggler states and the other doesn't contradict (or that both smugglers agree on) are true:

  • Smuggler B is louder than Smuggler A.
  • Smuggler A is not loud.

But what is "loud"? It has one of two meanings:

Since there can be a quiet thing, and a quiet thing half as loud, it follows that there must exist at least two different loudnesses that are both "quiet", i.e. both "not loud", and so Smuggler A's "louder than not loud" argument is invalid.

This does not, however, mean that Smuggler B is quiet; it merely means that we cannot say for sure that Smuggler B is not quiet.

This, however, is irrelevant.

Note that the smugglers stopped walking and stopped whispering during their debate. This suggests that they got distracted by their argument. Often, when distracted from moderating it, a person's voice will return to "normal" levels. Often, when in an argument, a person's voice will be loud.

The presence of the nearby light further suggests that the smugglers are both being loud by the end of the story; they have probably been noticed.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

How close is humid?

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I don't understand.

(If you want to elaborate, spoiler markup is like blockquote markup, but with >! instead of >. Inline spoilers don't work, for some reason.)

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Close means humid. My late grandpa used to say, "It's getting close out." I think it's an old saying. Maybe like it's getting close to raining.

[–]wizzwizz4[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Ah. Erm, 90% humidity? I don't know. It depends.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's just a saying old people (who may still be alive) say.