all 17 comments

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I trust the media for the most part, but I still practice a certain degree of Skepticism. I’m a libertarian, so I will admit I trust sources like Reason, Mises and Cato the most.

[–]JasonCarswell 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

All corporate media and all governments are proven liars with abominably shitty records.

If you had a girlfriend who lied, cheated, and stole as much as they do, you'd boot her ass to the curb.

There is NO REASON TO TRUST THE MEDIA as a starting point. I START by assuming they are lying and need to be proven true - otherwise I take their shit with a grain of source and assume there are agendas, truths, lies, half-truths, omissions, hidden contexts all mixed together to keep the public feeling like they know something when in fact they do not.

Alternative media I don't know I will view skeptically until I understand their biases - and we all have them. Once I understand their bias, I will know where their strong points are and trust accordingly.

My favourite alternative media provides context and wider comprehensive understanding of how things fit in the big picture - something corporate media never does with their tiny puzzle pieces.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I trust the media for the most part

Which parts do you trust? The sources that you picked aren't exactly household names.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do follow some mainstream sources, but whenever they start producing content I feel is opinionated I don’t usually trust it.

[–]comments[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What are some things you feel have been trustworthy, and what are some things you've been more skeptical of?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I usually trust stuff that is presenting an anti-state view, since that means they aren’t government controlled Neoliberals.

[–]comments[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

I think "the mainstream media" in the USA were in general dishonest about the efficacy of masks in protecting against the wuhan coronavirus around January 2020. They claimed that masks did not help, but in fact they do. I think this was known at the time and they, or whoever gave them their content, knowingly spread misinformation.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Where do you get your information that masks actually help? There's no shortage of that being debunked.

I'm certainly not defending the media, in part because they're playing EVERY side of the story to intentionally create confusion. HyperNormalization (see the documentary) is where everything is true and nothing is true simultaneously and then no one has power because no one has information.

[–]comments[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Where do you get your information that masks actually help?

Well, it feels difficult to bring to bear all the things I think I know about masks and how they work. It's difficult to completely state the reasons, so I don't think I can state my position with completeness. Refuting all these points might still leave the position "masks help" unrefuted since stating all the reasons is more work than I want to do right now. But here are some reasons I think they help:

  • They filter the air. Anything that filters the air, will, well, filter the air and remove things from it to some extent, things that might otherwise enter the body. Viral diseases are, as far as I know, transmitted by very small particles in the air that exit the respiratory and sometimes digestive tract of infected individuals. So anything that would reduce the amount of particles from the air getting into my respiratory tract should provide some protection against viral particles. Similarly, anything that reduces the amount of particles going out into the air from my breath should help reduce the number of viral particles I put out into the environment if I'm infected. So it should help both protect me and others if I filter the air coming out of and going into my respiratory tract.

  • Medical workers use them. As I understand it surgical masks are meant to reduce the particles going out from the breath of the surgeons. And medical personnel also use N95 respirators when treating COVID patients. Now, that's not proof they work, but it suggests that the authorities don't think masks and respirators do nothing.

  • When I looked at the issue back in January, the first things I saw were old studies about the flu. The article I saw showed that they were not 100% effective, but that they did help for respiratory illnesses. The very next day articles came out explicitly about coronavirus advising people not to wear masks. It seemed strange to me, and inaccurate because of what I'd read the day before and because it intuitively seemed like it would help. And it seemed strangely motivated to have this information being shared so widely like that so suddenly with such confidence of being accurate.

  • This isn't the study I saw before, but here's one from 2008 saying masks probably do help to protect people from influenza. Here's another that takes it as a given that masks help reduce the transmission of respiratory infections.

  • this article suggests they help when used properly and provides some supporting links

[–]fred_red_beans 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

As far as I'm concerned, the wearing of masks is a tool to keep people in a fearful mindset, and are more detrimental than helpful.

Masks cause:

  • a reduction in blood oxygenation (hypoxia) or an elevation in blood C02 (hypercapnia)
  • if worn for hours, can reduce blood oxygenation as much as 20%
  • wearing a facial mask of any kind can cause a severe worsening of lung function for the frail elderly and those with lung diseases, such as COPD, emphysema or pulmonary fibrosis
  • a drop in oxygen levels (hypoxia) is associated with an impairment in immunity
  • By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain

We are not gaining anything by wearing masks and having the healthy isolate. Doing so only prolongs the amount of time we develop herd immunity and generally keeps our immunity low.

[–]BobQuixote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

By wearing a mask, the exhaled viruses will not be able to escape and will concentrate in the nasal passages, enter the olfactory nerves and travel into the brain

So? I've never heard anything about viruses mattering for the brain, specifically. It seems like they're always talked about as if getting infected means your body is (for all intents and purposes) immediately permeated with the virus, though I don't know how accurate that is.

Your other bullet points are about the wisdom of wearing masks for people in specific groups, which is not interesting to me in the context of whether people should generally wear them.

We are not gaining anything by wearing masks and having the healthy isolate. Doing so only prolongs the amount of time we develop herd immunity and generally keeps our immunity low.

That is a different approach based on different priorities. Society, or influential players within it, have prioritized minimizing our casualty rate, rather than accelerating the end of the pandemic. This is an example of "all lives are sacred" winning out over "the needs of the many." And it seems disingenuous to dismiss that so casually, as "we are not gaining anything."

[–]fred_red_beans 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't see any compelling evidence that indicates the wearing of masks or the lockdowns have minimized the death rate.

[–]BobQuixote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well anything I supply is just going to be the result of me searching in the same way that you can. And I have no background to be judging such material, but here you go anyway:

[–]fred_red_beans 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here's the article that my original post was citing:

Blaylock: Face Masks Pose Serious Risks To The Healthy

OK, from the cited pdf from 4/10/20 you have a "probably":

Although no randomized controlled trials (RCT) on the use of masks as source control for SAR S-CoV-2 has been published, a number of studies have attempted to indirectly estimate the efficacy of masks. Overall, an evidence review (29) finds "moderate certainty evidence shows that the use of hand-washing plus masks probably reduces the spread of respiratory viruses ."

You have a high speed camera experiment from 4/15/20.

The Nature article states:

There is little information on the efficacy of face masks in filtering respiratory viruses and reducing viral release from an individual with respiratory infections, and most research has focused on influenza

Our findings indicate that surgical masks can efficaciously reduce the emission of influenza virus particles into the environment in respiratory droplets, but not in aerosols

The Health Affairs, ResearchGate, CMAJ, and Washington Post articles are all cases or studies done after the mandate for masks.

Why would masks be mandated for the general public for a virus when there is no existing evidence that it has any benefit and has never been done before?

I still don't see any compelling evidence.

500,000 deaths from COVID-19 worldwide currently, while up to 650,000 die annually from the flu:

The flu has 1 death per 1000, the CDC shows about 2 to 4 deaths per 1000 - not even close to 3-4% as originally stated:

Additionally, the CDC has been issuing directives to inflate the COVID-19 mortality rate:

COVID-19 should be reported on the death certificate for all decedents where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.

The mask is nothing but a tool to encourage people to acquiesce to control.

There is no proof that social distancing works either:

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do not like the phrase "the media". It is like saying there is a problem with compact disks or frequency modulated radio transmission.

Reading Marshal McLuhan would be a start for what human media is all about, and it turns out you yourself are a form of media. Or the "American Gods" attitude, that there is a single deity that somehow represents humans attempt to understand the external world, which we address like we might address Zeus?

Mediation - media - you mediate things - you are media

Example, your eyeballs sit between the outside world and your brain, and therefor your eyeballs are mediating between the world and your brain, thus parts of you are media. (on an etymlogical note, I prefer the use of the word mediation for solving conflicts between people as it is more specific and useful, and for what everyone refers to as "mainstream media", perhaps we should have no word at all, because any attempt to group any persons summary total received information about the world into a single entity is from the outset misguided at best, the signs of hopelessly deep manipulation at worst)(as in even getting you to think of cnn/fox/nyt/washpo/abc/nbc/cbs as a single entity is ALREADY screwing with your brain in a seriously bad way that you should try to escape from.)


So "Dishonesty in the media" is opening the discussion to all dishonesty on planet earth, as well as all innacuracy that is unintentionla, as well as things that are simply misleading, such as how planets and galaxies look like stars, and distant stars are actually suns just like ours.

What you really want to ask about is, why do so many people who profess to be journalists or other content creators intentionally lie?

Or better yet, why can anyone just say they are a journalist even if all they do is lie?

Or better still, why are journalists who have lied for decades still accepted by huge masses of people?

Or better, why does propaganda exist?

Or better, why have we as a species not done away with propaganda even though it is the cause of so many problems?

Or better still, why do we have such difficulty as a species agreeing on an agenda to confront our problems as well as the factual basis for confronting them?

Or better still, how do so few people control such loud megaphones without any accountability?

Or better still, even though we created a network that connects literally every person to everyone else, directly, we still have the same problems as when there was only a single state owned media channel, or that the problem has gotten worse?

Thus,, we would all be better off if we accepted that the internet is the primary media we need, and then use it to query each other and broadcast our discussions and debates, and those of experts, rather than seek Media(tm) from a single source like it is the eye of sauron on a tower.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

One time, long ago, I saw some media with a glazed look of dishonesty about it - so I threw it on a potter's wheel and made my mom an ashtray even though she never smoked. Clay media may look dishonest, just lying there, but at least it doesn't lie TO you.