all 71 comments

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (23 children)

Thanks man. We've been trying to be some kind of middle ground between Reddit and Voat and I guess it's working. Shout out to our resident left of centers who stuck with us through the mostly right leaning days.

[–]beermeem 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (22 children)

Wait, you don't consider yourself right wing?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (20 children)

I'm thanking lefties for not leaving even though we had mostly right content a lot. The more alt-moderate anti-authoritarian anti-war folks we can empower, the better.

[–]Noam_Chomsky 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

The lefties...

Who haven't...

Left...?

;-)

[–]MayDayGunGrab 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just got here and I'm a lolbert/base socialist opt-in

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    different kinds, like many liberals don't like the dems cuz of obama selling out, droning innocents, keeping NSA going, bailing out banks etc. Hence why Trump won, voters not coming out for Hillary in key states. We call them conservadems, they bootlick and support dems that are the same as repubs. Trump acts crazy on twitter but other than that all his policies are the same as what Hillary would have had.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    What is alt-moderate?

    I made it up, and maybe I'm full of shit, but it's a moderate that sees partisanship as a lie, that both parties are essentially the same, working for wall street and the military industrial complex. Some kind of "enlightened centrist" with non extreme politics.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    The identity politics have to end, I found this and it really hit home:

    https://archive.is/DEMNz

    And these are ones I made on about the same issue: https://archive.is/2gVPq https://archive.is/bRCdQ

    The issues on tv are selected to distract us from our unified interests, and any work in the media against those tyrannies that does not remedy this misdirection will fail.

    That is also why people like me working on this are being attacked so hard, and it sucks. Being stalked sucks.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

    Agreed completely and great memes. Yeah identity politics seem to be yet another divide and conquer mechanism... anything to keep us from uniting economically or viewing politics more like class warfare. Or peering behind the curtain.

    Anyway, welcome to saidit, I think we can all learn a lot from you, and there are people here ready to listen. I'll explore your site sometime, it looks very promising.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

    Thank you for the kind words. On this day, they go far. I am trying to have a little hope this place isnt like the rest. I may have some questions about how it is operated, who owns the servers, who has global admin etc. But so far I can work with it. Check some of my other comments ITT maybe...I have been working on this conundrum for a long while.

    A lot of my stuff is long winded, if you want to cut to the chase, dl the long form meme book(that has that neo meme in it...).
    https://leanpub.com/thebookoflongformremixmemes ...that is kindof the shortcut....

    fwiw good news: http://domainincite.com/25497-dangerous-precedent-as-icann-rejects-1-13-billion-org-buyout

    lulz this guy https://archive.is/2MFbn

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    Well I hope we're not like the rest as well. This site isn't the last hope for humanity or anything, but I hope we're one of many sites that are doing the right thing and making a small difference.

    Here's a write up on SaidIt and of course feel free to ask us any questions: https://infogalactic.com/info/SaidIt

    It is exciting that you have been working on this problem for a while. You probably have some good ideas for us. I hope this reddit clone is the end of an era, and that from here on out the federated and decentralized reddit clones take off. So far that has been a slow process and sites like that are not widely available yet (with potentially one exception https://notabug.io/).

    /u/magnora7 is top dog and found me on reddit's /r/conspiracy so that's our genesis and we've attracted a decent amount of those folks.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    It feels like a reddit reboot that doesnt have reddits problems only because it is small.

    If you notice, II stood up for trans rights and against racism, and so far I have been called a ton of names and had to block some people for things I would expect on voat. And on voat lol I am a n-lover. Here I am called a faggot. At soylent news I am called crazy. On twitter I do not think anyone sees my messages, it is like a ghost town, or people think I am fake. At minds and steemit is a ghost town, no real people or responses either.

    Here there have been some human-like responses so far, but also no one has actually responded to all but the tiniest fraction of what I am trying to say.

    And "jason carswell" has not passed my sniff test, is he an admin or in any way working for the admin team? I had to block him for obvious forum sliding disinfo tactics on multiple occasions.

    It is sad and doubly disturbing once you realize you are being stalked and persecuted by the new police state powers, and paramilitary forces, when you make a list of the 100 intellectuals whose podcasts you listen to, and you email and tweet them all, and not a single one of them responds, something is fucking off and weird. And dangerous.

    I also once posted a lot at r/conspiracy, if I shared my username you would find like a million words. But found no humans. DM'd everyone who I thought sounded real, never, ever any response. Like the messages arent delivered if you are on a list, cant explain it any other way.

    You start to feel like an "unpersson", which is really what totalitarianism is, all rights for a few, no rights or voice for anyone else. And that should concern everyone.

    I will be watching sharply here for disinfo troll agent shill tactics and calling them out, the extent to which this is responded effectively by the community and admins will determine whether or not I think, basically, if you are real or if this is just another copshop run out of eglin afb.

    So keep that in mind. For me these things are as real as someone following me back home friday afternoon, and facing homelessness because no one believes your life story, because no one believes things could really be that bad.

    They are, I promise you, and it will not ever change by inaction and silence.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Very interesting story. This unperson stuff is pretty terrifying. You are welcome to report people to mods and admins for shameless name calling and trolling, we will hand out warnings and eventually ban. (unless they slip that into an otherwise decent argument).

    Jason is a longtime super fan, he made our logo and hangs out here a lot. He's not everyone's cup of tea but I'm pretty sure that he means well. He's also very long winded.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    at this point, whatever admins have obviously given up on enforcing anything, I login and only have 10 personal attacks on myself a day, same as at voat, same as at reddit.

    But I bet you know that already.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    rereading this comment ten days later, and I wonder what planet you live on.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    well how kind of you to mention that

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I did not write this comment 2 days ago, wtf.

    [–]beermeem 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    good on ya

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm personally libCenter or libRight on the compass, but I don't get how that's relevant here. SaidIt has no official affiliation.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

    Free is a difficult word, at some point in a free speech system you have two people screaming at the top of their lungs and no one is getting heard. Or you have one person trying to argue a point and a gang of other users calling them a "faggot". Or someone sliding the thread with something like "stoooooooop infoooorming meeeeeeeeeeeee" . Both true stories in my recent history.

    But anyone using speech to silence other speech is not speaking freely, they are speaking to limit the free speech of someone else.

    None of this works without moderation. The people who do not want free speech, which are the most powerful, well-funded, autocratic, plutocratic, tyrannical people in the world, want to control the platform, the servers, the ownership, the moderators, and then ultimately the user base. Then the databases so they can know who said what, when, long after the site is abandonded.

    We have seen this happen, over and over. I saw this problem coming in the early 2000s, I was at one point obsessed with it.

    How would anyone think internet debating would work without fair algorithms and fair moderators? I predicted what actually happened, and I had to give up on my work to create alternatives because it was more than any one person could do, and the hundreds of other peoeple at the time I spoke to(and I wrote al gore and noam chomsky...) were just unwilling to even consider that it wouldn't just all work out.

    What it boils down to is that operating a site like saidit in such a way it does not get taken over by forces that want to destroy it and use it for propaganda, is difficult and takes time. And it takes a certain kind of very fair, very knowledgeable person in the moderation chair.

    And I have read the same story over and over again in dozens of communities, Raddle, reddit subs, chans, eztv, the actual police and military(JIDF...CCP) will spend 24/7 effort to take over the mod spots, over years, until they do. They will go to extreme lengths to make any debate over the admin rights and mod rights so bonkers, so extended, so tiring, that no one can read it. They will literally wear you down, and no volunteer can withstand it. Volunteers are in a way doing it for fun, edification, learning, community service, but the forces against free speech ruin all of that for them until they give up and the sub becomes a joke. The conspiracy about r/conspiracy is so far off the meta charts....

    So I said in 2002, seeing this coming, and I was a much less effective writer than I am now, and now I have seen decades of this happening, and how dead(and hostile, full of nonsense) the internet is as a result) that this job of internet moderation and mediation is a real, actual job. Actual work. It will not ever succeed with a volunteer effort, especially an anon one. Just look at things like the Fram debates over at wikipedia, who can even follow that? The entire discussion is over what kind of organization is even being appealed to, and the "wikimedia foundation" and wiki corporate and jimmy wales have completely failed to solve this issue, with the most dedicated volunteer editing base(including phillip cross...) and millions of dollars.

    Or look at .org and ethos capital, the "multi stake holder" chimera of orgs who claim to somehow kindof operate in the public interest, and how this is just being bought out wholesale which will give a zionist corporation veto power over every .org domain.

    The cops and militaries and plutocrats of the world know that moderation and administration of intellectual content is a job and they are paying people to spend years taking these roles over, making a billion boutique controlled opposition sites like raddle and slug, why are we civilians so far behind?

    Do you really think the debate pyramid idea is going to scale? Do you really think they havent started to degrade and take over here? (they have) Or that people will buy into this if there isnt something operationally different?

    Imagine a utopic world that has done away with internal war, something like the start trek federation. Or even something so simple as a ship board computer on a non-autocratic ship run democratically. The operation of the debate computer in such a way it isnt gamed is critical to any idea of democracy. And the moderation of that server is critical to any idea of democracy.

    But all of the billion dollar "democracy" funds like Tides and the NPR funding endowments have spent the last 20 years pretending the critical efforts of digital democracy can be a mostly volunteer effort.

    Now we sit at home, everyone dreaming of the perfect stay at home job, stay at home jobs being actually critical perhaps to the entire survival of the economy, and our internet is full of disinformation that is also threatening not just the economy but our safety, and I am the only one writing about what it might look like for these idiotic aspects of the current internet were flipped.

    What if moderators weren't anon and were vetted not to be cops/military and what if they were paid for their work? How would that look? How would you set it up? I have some ideas, some of them are in my Expanded Definitions book and some are in Mental Self Defense https://leanpub.com/mentalselfdefense https://leanpub.com/expandeddefinitions

    Fact is, the state and corporation will never, ever give us a "free speech" platform outside of their control and they will always try to destroy it, subvert it while giving the illusion of freedom(always, always the trick of tyranny).

    And anything that is not capable of resisting these forces is just another tasteless joke on r/conspiracy.

    [–]MostlySunnySkies 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    First thing I see is with this:

    What it boils down to is that operating a site like saidit in such a way it does not get taken over by forces that want to destroy it and use it for propaganda, is difficult and takes time. And it takes a certain kind of very fair, very knowledgeable person in the moderation chair.

    This is the Good King problem. Everything in the Kingdom is Good as long as the King is Good. But the King doesn't live forever and his son is not Good. Or he's overthrown.

    If everything depends on the King, then that's the first problem you have to solve, because everything can't depend on the King.

    Look at how bitcoin solved the Good King/ Bad Agent (same thing) problem. The entire design of Bitcoin is solely to address the problem that no one can be trusted. It takes a multitude of untrustworthy actors and pits them against each other so that, in a zero sum game, it's to everyone's advantage to police everyone else.

    What results is a pretty trustworthy system, or at least, as trustworthy a system as you can build without cheating and relying a Good King. They still have the 51% problem (51% of people agree to cheat together). But it's better than anything else out there.

    [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I think you are right, and we would love to have a distributed server option where everyone can be a server, so no one is "the" server. Kind of like how torrents work. If we could webhost in such a manner it would be a great thing for the longevity of the site.

    However I think "Good King" might be as good as we can get, given the average website basically totally decays content-wise in 5-10 years. Even if it was distributed it would still need administration and removal of posts designed to degrade the quality of the site, or posts designed to put it in legal trouble. One human lifespan of consistent ruling would be a huge upgrade, compared to this norm! It's not a perfect solution, not by any means, but it might be as good as the internet can get at the moment.

    And a person has to make these decisions, at the end of the day. It's not something that can be automated, and crowdsourcing it has proven to be disastrous, especially if that process is hijacked by dedicated groups. So I am not sure of a better system while still accomplishing the things necessary to run the site, but I am definitely interested in exploring more options and trying more ideas regarding this issue.

    [–]MostlySunnySkies 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    , and crowdsourcing it has proven to be disastrous, especially if that process is hijacked by dedicated groups

    Can you give me some examples? I don't doubt you, but I am interested in details.

    For the rest, I don't have a solution either but I know the way to a solution is framing the question properly. What is the real issue? It's what you said- in the end it comes down to a human. New thinking here has to start by wrestling with this fact, because it's not going away.

    My first instinct is trade human for crowd somehow, but you say this is a failure. Wiki traded human for editors,but editors were a hierarchical organization and if there's one thing we know is subject to being taken over, it's a hierarchical organization. Bitcoin's contribution is to flatten that out; everyone is just a node with no special powers.

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Voat is an example. They basically created a "founder-effect" setup, where the early users got more power than the newer users. What ended up happening is neo-nazis hijacked it through dedicated long-term efforts, and the site for a long while literally was just a neo-nazi site. And it couldn't really be corrected because the new users didn't have voting power and had to get 100 upvotes before they could downvote others. So once the echo-chamber was hijacked, it was all over.

    Even reddit is another example. There are so many administrators and moderators, and some of them are very bad, and are literally selling their services (the ability to promote or remove certain content). This has created an atmosphere of censorship, and also has filled the site with advertising disguised as content.

    With voat a bad community got control. With reddit, the admins and mods sold out. (Which just requires a percentage of them to sell out, not all)

    Both are vulnerabilities that are avoided by the "Good King" approach.

    What is the real issue? It's what you said- in the end it comes down to a human. New thinking here has to start by wrestling with this fact, because it's not going away.

    The real issue would be either automating the administration, so the whole site could be distributed with no one at the helm. But that may be impossible. If humans have to do it, then the only solution is to have trustworthy humans. And I'm not sure of any vetting system that would filter out people who are just seeking power, or people trying to subvert the system, or people trying to sell out.

    The only real filter I see is the people who are dedicated enough to spend the time and effort to build their own site, like d3rr and I, or like goldf1sh who built www.notabug.io.

    A great solution would be if there were so many active reddit alternatives that if one got taken over or compromised, it wouldn't matter so much because people could go to a new site very easily. But unfortunately people tend to congregate all on one site, like reddit, because they want to go where there is the most activity. I am not sure how to address this particular problem, but there might be a solution.

    [–]MostlySunnySkies 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    If humans have to do it, then the only solution is to have trustworthy humans. And I'm not sure of any vetting system that would filter out people who are just seeking power, or people trying to subvert the system, or people trying to sell out.

    In computer science we have this concept of an NP Complete problem and another concept of a reduction of a problem. An NP complete problem is a problem that is as hard as any hard problem in its category; it's category is a miserable one, for which no known "efficient" solution exists. What we know is that, if a solution for any of the NP complete problems exist, a solution for all of them does also exist because they are all "equivalent" to each other; we say they can be "reduced" to another of their (miserable) category.

    This problem you're citing here, the trustworthiness of humans, is an NP complete problem in human affairs. No known solution to it exists, but if it did, then organizations like the FBI would not have to worry about the Robert Hanssen's of the world. But they do.

    The thing with NP complete problems is, most developers don't waste their time trying to prove they're not what they seem to be- asymptotically intractable. They (probably) are; so use your life's energy proving something else.

    The same thing applies here. If we want to depend on a Good King then our solution will come to incorporate something akin to an FBI vetting process- absent the cooperation their very special powers and reputation elicit from the world. Either that or it will succumb. I just can't see that working in the long term, although in the short tterm you're doing a great job in my opinion.

    Small blockchains suffer from an easier to exploit 51% problem. I have some Reddit sub numbers here, and I think they're big enough to make Saidit a hard target for a blockchain takeover, supposing everyone defects and the site continues to grow.

    s/announcements 56,238,906 (everybody I presume)

    s/AskReddit 27,580,454

    s/ funny 30,094,540

    and so on with lots of 20 and teens millions.

    magnora, early on I was very heavily involved with the web. We had a very early startup; we preceeded everyone in a ton of later to be sucessful technology. Details matter and I am not one of the tech billionaires :( but it's not from a personal lack of vision or work. Online, I got massively burned on a discussion group / news website and I had to decide to walk away from it . I truly feel Saidit's ex-Redditor's pain.

    I thought- I'll never do that again ! and psychologically, I haven't; none of my posts are anything I have some big attachment to, as in olden days.

    But it got me thinking, like it did a lot of people, about what's wrong with the web.

    I concluded we had taken a wrong turn early on and instead of sharing data with each other's connected computers, we aggregated ourselves into what amounts to complex honeytraps run by psychopathic authoritarians.

    I never joined FB or Twitter or any of that. I don't even use a smartphone. I take much-more-dramatic-than-average precautions against online threats and treat all my posts and emails and web activity as though they were fully public to my neighbors and I might one day have to stand trial and defend myself for something I said or did. That's my mindset. I don't expect that my activity is public; I reserve my legal assumption of privacy and anonymity, but I act as though a worse case scenario could happen.

    Since those days, I've come out of a kind of hibernation of hope. I feel like something's in the air like it was back then. Things are changing and a Big Change over a few decades is going to happen and it can be a Good Big Change if people of good will can be coaxed into applying themselves.

    I feel like this problem is interesting to me again. If would be very happy to kick around ideas - nothing is too wild- with anyone who wants to. Feel free to dm me and maybe tell me what /s covers these kinds of things.

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I am thinking a good idea might be to have an essay when registering a username. The user must write a 5 sentence (or longer) essay about a given question. Then I can judge the quality of the essay, make sure it is unique and not copypasta or computer generated, and use that as admission.

    It doesn't solve the administration problem but it might go a long way to increase user quality, which might make it easier to let the community make decisions because it wouldn't be so easily hijacked.

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    interesting idea for a gatekeeping thing that isn't (easily circumventable anyway) email

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I do not propose a single moderator, or any king, I am in all cases against centralization of power in one person. I am aware of the good king problem. Or the "philosopher king" from the greeks, the republic in one of its many forms is the only way forward. (and not into literal hell i might add...)

    The good news is technology can enable a "jedi council" of sorts if implemented wisely.

    Here is what we have, next to an outline of what we need to build. https://archive.is/dmjdm

    And here are these two options built into a bigger "decopage" of the current milieu. Things like bilderberg, zionism and other degenerate cultural hegemonies that only protect their own narrow interests, give us a network of bad kings, evidenced by how awful everything is going, and how this system only functions if everyone believes a version of history that is a complete lie, which necessitates a sort of crucifixion assembly line that handles those who get in the way.

    https://archive.is/ws6XQ

    And if people could see these two systems side by side, they could see where they could use their skills to build the side they want to live in, and stop feeding the side they don't. At the moment in any mass media discussion these two sides are all jumbled up, so I would like to mass media share these memes, which is why I am here.

    Thanks for the constructive comment.

    [–]MostlySunnySkies 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    This is the second fundamental problem:

    They will literally wear you down, and no volunteer can withstand it.

    This is about being forced to spend time and attention. They bankrupt you. They bankrupt your mental "bandwidth".

    In the world, two people in a debate can't agree because they don't have the time and bandwidth to run down the ultimate truth of assertions made by the other side. Neither does the audience.

    So this is not a Saidit problem, or even an online community problem. It's a non-trivial problem that is the chief thing gating the adjudication of everything from climate change to Holocaust Denial among people who sincerely intend to know the truth. My point here is- don't expect to solve it.

    Problems we can't solve we deal with, and if you look at civilization, the way we deal with this problem is through structured debate. We create systems which define what is admissable and what constitues valid evidence and who won or at least is winning or has assembled the best evidence.

    Science is one such system. The judiciary is another. If you look at how those activities are structured you can get an idea of what the site would have to be like in order to enact a simliar solution. These represent humanity's best efforts at fact finding.

    The failure called Wikipedia is the best example I am aware of that attempted to realize this.

    Sure, science is also corruptible -the Food Pyramid and the Stanford Prison Experiment have now both completely and uncontroversially ( everyone is in full agreement) been outed as outright, full-on, self-conscious frauds perpetrated by zealots for their cause. Stil, science seems better than Wikipedia.

    So the point here is this- threaded discussion groups are good for talking like this, for communication, but they can't by themselves sustain a debate. That looks like something else. We don't know what. Something.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I agree with this assessment. I find also at the moment, especially due to china, the peer review process of science is nearing 50/50 reliability, about a coin flip. Now we see with cv that no one can even agree on what a virus is. This is very bad, regression.

    With law, we have things like epstein, where some people are getting away with everything and others get the full weight of the law, it is broken down.

    You are right, what I am proposing is a major change to the way all of these things operate, an entire new basis for trust in human argumentation. I spent the last 20 years thinking someone else was going to try to solve it and no one did, it got worse, then worse, then worse, then worse, only worse. Like most things, rather than reform what is broken the broken has been treated as a feature by those who can just bribe their way to what they want using the broken parts as tools. That is exactly what ethos is doing, what youtubes censorship department is doing, exactly what "citizens united" supreme court decision enabled on full blast.

    And so we have the end of trust, and now I am talking about, maybe just as a stunt because everything is too broken to fix, what is the beginning of trust. And I think one of the ways to accomplish that is through sacrifice and overwhelming contribution, with the hard fought knowledge of experience engaging bad actors.

    That is what my site and my books are. That is why I am posting under my real name. That is why I do so much without compensation.

    Maybe my demonstration will show, if nothing else, that some people who are very competent and good writers with something to say, are not just being censored, but are being attacked, and maybe that will spur some people out of complacency. In American culture, according to my experience being denied entry into any intellectual field, and being permantly harassed without being charged with a crime, there must be a vast class of people ready to work on these things, ready to contribute, who have simply been denied an existence in their chosen profession by a corrupt(and foreign) cultural hegemony run by people like epstein and weinstein.

    And if that is the case, there are all of the resources for this change, for this entire new basis, really just a set of tools and methods, and non-psychopathic people, prepared to implement it. The computers and network is there, the coding work is being done with things like matrix, the people are ready, but there is no financing or institution to do it. Because the corrupt cultural hegemony has a literal billion dollars to ruin the internet for top down control, but not a single dime to enable an effective platform for dialogue.

    If nothing else, this indicates the true nature and intent of tptb, that they intend the internet and computers be used only for control, and as such they are just tyrants in new clothes and have no legitimacy, moral or otherwise.

    Good news, ethos got stuffed. (also your link had a security warning, might want to look into that) http://domainincite.com/25497-dangerous-precedent-as-icann-rejects-1-13-billion-org-buyout

    Sadly it appears part of a long term strategy that they will not give up on. But a better illustration of my point about how these people "erik brooks" and the kushners will spend a billion dollars for control, but not a dime on actual moderation. It is a fact the internet and things like wikipedia cannot exist without moderation, and it is a fact these things are now core to the functioning of human society, and it is a fact that moderation is actual work, but with all of their thinking caps on the rich and cultural hegemony cannot with all of their money and fancy solve the issue.

    Like I said, it would involve them giving power away, and for them the internet is only about their power, their goals, their propaganda, and they do not want to share, they just want our volunteer efforts to give their phillip cross edits the air of legitimacy while they further lock down control incrementally.

    And that is evil, demonic, regressive, tyranny. https://archive.is/2MFbn

    [–]MostlySunnySkies 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    What if moderators weren't anon and were vetted

    Unfortunately, nothing stops "them". Look at ICAAN. As you said, they were about to give .org away to private equity firm.

    Everyone involved in that is publicly known to all and paid (short read):

    https://www.circleid.com/posts/20200407-a-new-low-for-the-icann-multistakeholder-process/

    I think people should be paid for their time and effort. It doesn't solve the corruption problem.

    [–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    There is no simple solution to the corruption problem, it is a forever process of every day shutting them down or they shut us down.

    That is why my book, and learning/training about how to detect and what a real person looks like vs a persona.

    What we see with ethos/org is that the rich (zionist....) people have tons of money to buy everything and replicate what we have now, which sucks for everynone, and is drowning the world in nonsense, but they have not a cent to pay moderators on any of their platforms to actually moderate. They only pay secret teams of censors and biased "code of conduct" censors.

    What I am talking about, and have been talking about, is rumored to be what they want to make sure never happens. It is because they are building top down control mechanisms, cages, for us and our ideas, and what I am proposing is not top down. Real moderation from real moderators place billionaire bosses in the cultural hegemony on the same footing as any other person with a good idea, and THAT is the idea they hate.

    They are worse than monarchists, these billionaires. And you do know that behind ethos is Thrive, and that is jared kushners brother, and they and others like them are who decides who can get paid on youtube and patreon? And because I will not work with them, I have to do everything myself, and bitcoin is my only option. I can still use paypal but eventually, if I got paid, they would ban me from that too.

    That is the other thing, everyone complains about youtube bannings and patreon banning, but despite this coming from generally the same factions, it is done by a hidden hand, just like ethos masks that thrive is behind it and masks that it is kushners family, and zionists. They have done the same thing with intel, microsoft, ncr, amdocs, and other companies, outsourcing the intellectual and financial work(or the control of it) to their beloved zion.

    They also now control department of homeland security through stephen miller, so I write these things not just to fix the internet, because there is a clear and present threat to the united states constitution from these people. And also my life personally, because they stalk me everywhere I go.

    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Hell yeah!

    [–]sad_campaign 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I wouldn't call it a free speech platform, but it is by far much more privacy centered and doesn't police things too much.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Still a possible honey pot for the NSA's. Been trolling the hell out of them tho with crazy comments! hehehe

    [–]u432 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

    SaidIt is not a free speech platform.

    I'm very careful not to call it a free speech site, the pyramid means it's not. Magnora doesn't call it a free speech site either as far as I'm aware.

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (9 children)

    A quote from me. I think this place is more accurately called a free communication or open debate platform. Free speech absolutists may not think we can be free speech with our pyramid policy.

    [–]beermeem 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    I'd be amenable to "Freer Civil Discourse" but let's let it be what it is without a label.

    Once you label, you establish expectations. And then people start attempting to move the expected establishment.

    I've had my issues with /u/magnora7 but he's far better at his job than Zuck The Cuck.

    [–]AntiLowEffortHuman 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I think the people over there want something totally unmoderated. Something which I think is not possible to have in conjugation with good debate/discussion. The amount of trolls, retards, "influencers", spammers, irrelevant posters, false flaggers will easily overwhelm the place. It will become very hard to separate genuine posts from the above-mentioned groups (at least that's what i saw happening on voat when I was there for some time). A very low "signal to noise ratio", if you will. Imo as long as one does not remove opinions and ideas, or certain opinions and ideas which go against the narrative, removing posts and comments is just fine. "Moderating in moderation", if you will.

    [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    You are exactly correct about everything you said. Thank goodness we have the pyramid of debate to act as a guide for distinguishing what is signal and what is noise, it makes "moderating in moderation" a lot easier.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    You called it years ago. I didn't even think the pyramid was a good idea for like the first year, but here we are.

    This is one of my favorite posts about SaidIt ever. Congrats man.

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Ha thanks! I'm glad we stuck together and have made such a great website. It's rewarding to see how high-quality the community is after all our efforts. I hope someday to contact Paul Graham who runs hackernews and who also made the pyramid of debate, and let him know we're using his pyramid successfully.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm sure he'd love it, a fine idea.

    [–]FormosaOolong 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This entire discussion is such a fine example of the success of the PoD, and how it engenders interactions of quality.

    [–]MayDayGunGrab 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The feds put strict controls on my city-sub and tencent has a hard on for me, Trudeau shut down the media, we can't communicate, I'm desperate - so here.

    [–]GreenCappy[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Okay. I just hope that when I just want to make a joke etc I don't have to see the pyramid of debate, otherwise it's fine

    [–]hennaojichan 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    Mommy, they're here...again.

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    level of parent comment: counter-argument

    level of reply comment: ad hominem (I may not fully understand this reply but "mommy" makes me confident enough it's meant to be mocking, and it contains no other information.)

    pyramid direction: -3 levels from parent

    this reply drags the discussion in a downward direction on the pyramid of debate. admins: /u/magnora7 /u/d3rr

    [–]GreenCappy[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Isn't this just a joke?

    [–]Alt-Universe 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    thank you

    [–]beermeem 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    What types of advertisements would you suggest?

    [–]BEYENE 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Reddit is terrible you can only post so much, everyone takes everything so seriously, saidit is cool

    [–]GreenCappy[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Actually right now saidit is in most places terrible, because it's ALWAYS political and mostly from a far right point of view, but at least its kit as bad as /pol/ or voat and I can actually also post dissenting opinions or non political stuff

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Are you unable to post dissenting opinions or non-political stuff on /pol/ or voat?

    [–]GreenCappy[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You can but they'll insult me racial slurs while the pyramid of debate usually prevents this (although I've already been insulted because of my ethnicity, nice 🙃)

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    Certain individuals that visit this site are extremely moderate.

    Moderate in the extreme.

    [–]GreenCappy[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I didn't get it

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Doesn't matter if its the left door or the right door, it leads to a single hallway to the slaughterhouse. Also, I love this place a helluva lot more than that bullshit over at Reddit. You know its bad when someone of 6 years straight up deletes their 150K karma account.. (Nalukai <-----this guy)

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    +3

    [–]GreenCappy[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    OP here. I love some things but I actually hate some other things. There's actually still a lot of fascists here that spread their point of view and say the same lies and conspiracies against trans people, against Jews etc. I didn't even find an Israel subreddit that is actually about the country, about what's beautiful there for example, and not about how "Jews control the world, zionism sucks". I visited s/Jews and s/Israel. Its pathetic. Also, there's a lot of conspiracies that the coronavirus doesn't exist. You'll spread those until it will touch you personally, and before that you won't believe it? Is this how conservatism works? Literally the same as with climate change. We actually NEED lockdown and its a fact. And also too much pro trump things. And there's not enough active subreddits that isn't about politics, that is about photos about how beautiful a country is, entertainment, such as memes, TIL, starter packs etc. It's pathetic. I don't want to always be depressed because of how the world is fucked up.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Post the posts that you wish were here.

    [–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    There's actually still a lot of fascists here that spread their point of view and say the same lies and conspiracies against trans people, against Jews etc. I didn't even find an Israel subreddit that is actually about the country, about what's beautiful there for example, and not about how "Jews control the world, zionism sucks". I visited s/Jews and s/Israel. Its pathetic. Also, there's a lot of conspiracies that the coronavirus doesn't exist. You'll spread those until it will touch you personally, and before that you won't believe it? Is this how conservatism works? Literally the same as with climate change. We actually NEED lockdown and its a fact. And also too much pro trump things.

    This section reads like a liberal astroturfer super-summary... :-/

    [–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't really feel this is completely fair. On a site that is explicitly hands-off about shaping the community they want to see, maybe it would be appropriate. But that's not SaidIt's approach -- SaidIt takes an active interest in cultivating the kind of community they want to see. Whatever the result is, it's a result of the cultivator's efforts and their choices about what to remove or not to remove, what to encourage or discourage. There's been plenty of intervention along these lines.

    [–]Zahn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    We actually NEED lockdown and its a fact.

    You have a lot of nerve to be accusing others of being fascists. How about you just lock yourself up, and leave the rest of us alone?

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]GreenCappy[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      If you're such an advocate for free speech, why do you purposely try to discourage me from using it for expressing my opinions by brigading all my content the same way AHS does with reddit and Sjws do with twitter?