all 16 comments

[–]King_Brutus 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I believe in free speech, but I also believe in a degree of sub autonomy. If someone wants to have an echo chamber that's fine but that just gives ammunition against their views if they won't allow debate.

The problem with reddit came when subs wanted to have their own autonomy but mommy-reddit said NO and banned them anyways because AHS was looking for something to reeeeeee at.

[–]theoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Shit moderators are a huge problem. Optional moderation solves all this.

[–]kokolokoNightcrawler 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

omg, who copyrighted those subs...? How are they "stolen"?

[–]OffAndSphere[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not really "stolen". The problem is, if a sub was talking about apples—let's say it's called s/apples, and it didn't allow negativity towards them, some people might want to create a sub that talks about the pros and cons about apples. Let's say they wanted to call it s/appleDiscussion. The trouble is advertising that sub because most people would just give up looking for a subreddit named like that after not being able to post negativity about apples on s/apples, making it hard to grow a sub like that.

[–]kokolokoNightcrawler 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

i still don't understand what you're talking about...I surprise myself sometimes just how stupid I am

[–]teelo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Its simple: the longer a sub name is, the harder it is to grow.

Compare the size of /r/wow (1.6 million) vs /r/competitivewow (73k).

Edit: A better example - /r/wow (1.6 million) vs /r/classicwow (400k). The difference in size is why the Classic WoW players pushed so hard to get the moderators of /r/wow to allow Classic WoW posts to remain there. The mods ultimately didn't, but even with those posts redirected to a dedicated sub, it didn't grow.

[–]kokolokoNightcrawler 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think I get now what you folks are saying...You don't want mods "reserving" synonymous subs and therefor monopolizing discourse on any particular subject... You don't have to worry about any of that here. The guy owning this site and the guy deving it are very common sense type of individuals.

[–]OffAndSphere[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That, and the fact that the more "modifiers" you add to a subreddit, the slower it grows.

r/WoW had World of Warcraft as a topic. r/classicwow had World of Warcraft as a modifier too, but it was also focused on the classic version—another topic modifier. Even though r/WoW technically had a modifier of only focusing on the new WoW, it was created eight years earlier and had more time to grow, so it had a massive head start in members when r/classicwow was created, bottlenecking the growth of the second sub.

[–]theoracle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Optional moderation solves this

[–]merc 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's kind of petty to snatch up sub names in bad faith, but you can get around it easily enough by making the same sub under a different name. No reason for a rule.

[–]Cindy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I agree, but only if the "name scooping" is very evident. I don't believe in subs that exist only to link to another sub and otherwise restrict submissions.

This could be a problem if someone has a topic they wanted to talk about, but the sub for that topic doesn't allow opposing opinions, they might not be able to get a decent following on a sub about the same topic that does allow opposing opinions.

With Saidit's culture, I don't think it will be an issue. Also, some subs just aren't designed for opposing opinions. If someone came into /s/Xbox just absolutely screaming about how Xbox sucks and PlayStation is better, well that wouldn't be constructive.

[–]theoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Solution is Optional Moderation. Then no one mod can completely control a sub or own it.

https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/54cp/can_we_make_moderation_optional_can_we_have/

[–]Cindy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm down for that how you described it, i.e. a switch that lets you see all removed content.

But what about bans? The biggest problem with "moderator oppression" is blanket bans against wrongthink.

[–]theoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bans under the system will basically be as effective as bans unless they are unjust. So bans would not be bans but just flags that all a users further posts/comments are either hidden or collapsed. So depending on which moderator you select will depend on who is "banned".

Also I feel nonbanned users comments on banned posts should still have their comments shown. This will cause either questioning why something is hidden and then people to disable or switch moderation. And if more people engage with comments on banned posts it will force that moderator to either ban more users or unbanned the banned person, because if the ban is unreasonable it will cascade into people possibly abandoning the moderator. Hurrah!

I have come to this after much thought over many many years probably a decade. Having faced silent editing, deletion and the worst shadow banning. I have watched as moderators make up stories and slander, it disgusts me the power these people can wield. The thing is the main trouble I have faced with moderators is ones with with financial ties to their boards. It amazes me how groups end up with industry insiders running the moderation. :-O The financial benefit is obvious.

Having sad that I have seen like now with reddit some ridiculous moderation events. What is going on now is nothing short of a religious war, and during the current social crisis it is not what we need and it is probably a large cause of it.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Legit concerns for sure. This is part of the reason why SaidIt has the 2 week wait and only one sub per week rule.

[–]theoracle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)