Petition for mods of major subs to ban /user/fuzzbutt22 for censorship on /s/PinkPillFeminism

submitted by SuperConductiveRabbi from self.SaidIt

Cancer is spreading on saidit. Abusive users are already here, creating radical feminist bullshit subs, making posts like "FUCK MEN FUCK MEN FUCK MEN YALL EAT A DICK" and then censoring anyone who calls them out on it.

https://i.imgur.com/93U745h.jpg

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[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 5 fun19 insightful - 4 fun20 insightful - 5 fun -  (12 children)

No, don't recreate Reddit. If a mod is not following mod policy, admins should correct it.

[–]theoracle 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Optional moderation solves this. You will recreate reddit without it. There is no way a few admins are going to be able to prevent a reddit or voat occurring with out some basic system in place to prevent it. I say let reddit, voat and hell even 4chan all coexist on the one platform. Let users choose who and what moderates for them. Free speech and free listening!

https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/54cp/can_we_make_moderation_optional_can_we_have/

https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/52rx/attention_magnora7_my_ideasolution/

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

I'm a tech lead here, and I love your idea, but you are asking for like 2000 hours of work. It's an entirely different platform. I'd be down to help with such a project, but it'd be better if it was from scratch, or if we all worked hard on NotABug.

[–]theoracle 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Hi d3rr nice to meet you. I think it's a good idea. I can totally accept that it could be a hell of a lot of work to fully implement. My idea on implementation though would be to try implementing it incrementally, an Elon Musk style strategy. To that way is there any small part that would be easy to implement? I was thinking that comments instead of being deleted could be collapsed. The deleted comments already present a problem for reviewing moderation logs. Deleted posts can still be read but not comments. You would still delete illegal stuff for certain.

I am up for trying to help with code and with improving Notabug, but I am somewhat novice. Surely some code can be copied from Notabug to saidit?

Is the code on github?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Instead of NAB you could also try to implement your ideas in Lemmy. I think Lemmy will become popular and the future of reddit clones. They just got a bunch of money in a grant, so they get to build it up for like a year full time, it's gonna be solid. The codebase here is dangerously old.

[–]theoracle 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I had a look at lemmy and it's extreme leftwing pro antifa stance is quite scary. I thought of federation as a good way to protect against plarforms that go bad, but what lemmy and it's friends are doing is just cutting off platforms they don't like from their fediverse, like with Gab....

I have been discussing my idea on ruqqus and a user there had some really good ideas for a tagging system as well as some blockchain stuff. I will make a post on the tagging as I think that's the way to implement my idea.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Far lefties building censorship resistant platforms is a head scratcher for sure. Just like Mastodon.

[–]theoracle 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

That's the thing they don't seem censorship resistant at all. Well at least not how they are using them, as the amount of censorship going on makes reddit look mild. They are basically deleting ANY right wing opinion or user....

Would it be hard to implement an option in the side bar to make moderated comments either hidden, collapsed or revealed? I think that would be the best most simple implementation of my idea.

If you have that option, I think you will have an edge over ruqqus, which is growing at a crazy rate now.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

that wouldn't be too bad to implement in this codebase. that's a cool halfway point between the choose your own mods (NAB) model and the reddit model. you might want an admin override for doxx/illegal comments.

[–]theoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks d3rr I would really like to see this implemented as I think freedom of choice is what platforms are missing. I made a post on it https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/5aia/can_we_have_an_option_preferably_in_the_side_menu/ to see support and ideas. I know magnora7 is concerned it could turn the place into voat. But I feel that voat is what it is because of it's users and there censorship is used much like on the authoritarian left does to suppress the other side. This idea of mine hasn't really been tried thoroughly yet, so no one can be certain what it will produce. But I think because it aligns with people's natural rights like freedom of speech and choice then it will work well, for the same reason the concept of America worked well, freedom is the better way.

Maybe if you implement this and see an uptick in growth and it seems to work well, you can consider the more full idea.

And yes certain content like dox/illegal will need to be handled differently.

Thanks

[–]theoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nab already has spaces so I could work from that. I have no idea what I am doing so I would need some examples to get started. Maybe after working on NAB sometime I could move to lemmy.

What's the deal with NAB on getting contributions integrated if go1dfish is absent?

Who is doing lemmy and do you think my idea would have traction with them? I guess it's mastodon? https://mastodon.social/@LemmyDev

Lemmy looks really good, clean and fast. Whats the plan with saidit and lemmy? Just federate or switch to it?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

hey nice to meet you too. no, none of this would be easy to implement here aside from maybe your example of collapsing on removal instead of actually removing. fundamentally changing what it means to be a moderator would piss off people who have been curating their subs for 2 years now.

No, NAB is primarily javascript and here is primarily python. Both are up on github.

I don't mean to be a downer. Please keep selling your idea if you want, maybe you will inspire a new project.

[–]theoracle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No your not a downer at all, but very helpful. I think it's sad that people(mods) would get annoyed if deleted posts could be revealed. Collapsed they still occupy the same space as deleted. Maybe you can make them hidden, with an option to reveal?

NAB and saidit using different languages sucks... would make sense then to not contribute too much to either and just move to the latest project lemmy like you mentioned.

I ideally want the moderation to be completely separate from the posts. Posts are the raw data then you have the option to filter on top. Like browsing the web with an adblocker etc.

[–]DDvonTease 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (139 children)

If you don't like that sub, maybe just mute it and move on with your life?

[–]bald-janitor 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (134 children)

No u

[–]radfem 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (133 children)

This is exactly the childish kind of reply that got your comments removed on pink pill. They weren't constructive, on topic or even amusing. Stop being a victim.

[–]teelo 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (131 children)

They also werent hurting anyone. Harden the fuck up.

[–]radfem 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (130 children)

I’m not the one whining for people to be banned because I wasn’t allowed to tool around.

Ps. You know psychological studies suggest that people with the least empathy for the emotional health and wellbeing of others ‘just harden up sunshine!’ Are actually the most likely to be poorly able or completely incapable of managing their own emotions and often expect others to overly accomodate their feelings. Just saying.

[–]teelo 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (129 children)

I’m not the one whining for people to be banned because I wasn’t allowed to tool around.

Neither am I. I would prefer you have your moderation abilities removed so that you're forced to listen to counter-opinions. Safe-spaces do not belong here.

Ps. You know that psychology isn't a real science?

[–]radfem 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (128 children)

Lol

I’m so concerned that geniuses like you are not on my side of this debate.

Jesus, man... guys of your quality are so hard to find.

Ps dude, I’m literally not a mod on here, is literally you have no idea what you’re even talking about.

Seriously really disappointed someone of your intelligence is not on my side.

[–]teelo 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (127 children)

If you're not even a mod here then why are you defending them?

Ps: keep complaining about the patriarchy. Your complaints do nothing but keep you busy while us men continue to enjoy the money and power we get for simply having a penis. Sucks to be you!

[–]radfem 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (126 children)

Imagine being at the top of the privilege ladder and still being so bitter and scared that you have to mock women for trying to defend their right to speak uninterrupted by men...

I’d say get some therapy but... well... you clearly aren’t confident enough to work on your massive personal deficiencies.

Ps. Because it’s the morally right thing to do... strange concept for someone like you I know but...

Pps. If my complaints are such a time waste why do they bother you so much?

[–]teelo 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (26 children)

Imagine being at the top of the privilege ladder

Imagine being so brainwashed you actually think all men are at the top of the privilege ladder. Imagine being so braindamaged you can't even recognise obvious satire (which is about 99% of my comments).

[–]teelo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (98 children)

Ps. You didn't even respond to the question:

If you're not even a mod here then why are you defending them?

Remember the Pyramid of Debate on this site. Attack the core argument, not make personal attacks.

[–]bald-janitor 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

😤

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

That worked out great on Reddit

[–]DDvonTease 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's my point... you want to "police" what another sub does. If it bothers you that much, why not just mute it and go on commenting and posting in other subs? Why do the SaidIt mods need to do what you percive as bad?

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Why do the SaidIt mods need to do what you percive as bad?

Are you unaware of what site you're on and why it was created? Do you know where most of its users came from? Think really hard about how idiotic your argument is given that it relies on framing my opinion as some freak outlier.

[–]DDvonTease 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You want the mods to BAN people. That's exactly what Reddit does. Why the eff not just move on with your life? Create your own PinkPill sub. Mute it. But oh no, you want to go for the ban

Listen to yourself.

[–]FlippyKing 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

substitute "men" with "joooz" and no one here would complain.

Also, how is the presences of a post indicative of the censorship you complain about in the title this post. It seems like another example of reasoning found below the pyramid we're supposed to respect.

[–]radfem 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (22 children)

Some of your personal comments to the sub were: 'suck dick' and 'suck more dick'... that's it the whole entire comment... care to explain why those aren't spam?

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (18 children)

Those were my only two comments on the sub, and they were tests to see if they'd get removed. They don't break any of the rules on the sub, nor did the other comments.

[–]radfem 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

So they aren't spam in your view? Or off topic, or a low quality of content? Because those are saidit's own rules... that certain content can get a user removed or banned from a sub if that content is spam, off topic or low quality.

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

Spam is marketing junk, so clearly it's not spam. They're not as high quality as other comments that were removed, like ones expressing support but raising questions about how appropriate it is to make posts like the type they were posting. And why aren't you levying the same accusation of low-quality against a post that's literally "FUCK MEN FUCK MEN FUCK MEN YALL EAT A DICK"? I question your ability to rationally think about this topic, as you should've immediately volunteered that flaw in your argument.

It's fully justified to say "suck more dick" as a response to garbage of that quality. My comments, by the way, were well received and upvoted, and it wasn't until my post here that the mods of that sub banned me.

[–]radfem 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Spam was initially applied to marketing junk but the term has evolved with the times... language is weird that way...

Secondly, you're in a radical feminist forum buddy. As a man, your opinion is already pretty off-topic just by virtue of being... ya know from a man. Men aren't welcome into radical feminism. Meanwhile, the post you are talking about (if you had bothered read beyond the title) was actually a celebration of finding a new community so like... not low quality, even if you don't appreciate the language they used to express themselves.

Thirdly you've already admittedly to deliberately posting just to get banned... so like... none of your posts were made in good faith. You've pretty much (by your own admission) checked every box that would get a comment justly removed.

Build a bridge and get over it and stop trying to defend your right to comment absolute trash just because you perceive other people as getting to do it. Like seriously... what are you 4. Waaa, mummy she didn't get in trouble and she did the exact same thing.

Waaa....

PS. Spamming also applies in gamming now and its nothing to do with marketing emails, so the term has well evolved with the times.

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Spam was initially applied to marketing junk but the term has evolved with the times... language is weird that way...

Clearly you've not moderated before. Spam means something specific.

Secondly, you're in a radical feminist forum buddy.

Wrong, I'm on saidit.net

As a man, your opinion is already pretty off-topic just by virtue of being... ya know from a man.

Suck more dick

[–]radfem 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Thankyou for confirming my statement that you just want to spam and troll feminists subs because they don’t cater to the male ego. It’s always good to know where the whiny pos’ are at.

Ps. I’ve moderated multiple places before and can tell you spam is defined differently based upon where you are and who you are with...

Also

I’m a married lesbian so if there ever was a chance of me sucking dick it’s long since past. But it’s good to see that you think sucking dick is like a shameful activity that no one could possibly enjoy... like pretty low opinion of your own body part their bro... and sexual activities with you...

Wait... okay now the bitterness makes sense... self loathing is so toxic...

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

flings shit, including telling someone his opinion doesn't matter because of his sex

 

screams rape when shit is flung back

https://i.imgur.com/pfVeiHx.jpg

[–]radfem 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Actually it’s more like coming onto her side of the wall getting kicked back over to yours and then whining because a woman wouldn’t literally provide the shit and shovel you needed to fling anything at her.

Imagine feeling so entitled to female labour that you literally think not being allowed into female spaces is oppression.

Ps. I love how quickly you’ve given up on defending yourself and instead are trying to claim everyone should be banned... like... it’s amazing how quickly tools like you abandon your devotion to free speech when talking about other people.

Think you’d be better off on Reddit’s pro-male rape subs.

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

modding a shitpost sub that has fare like "KILL ALL MEN LOL"

female labor

lol

Ps. I love how quickly you’ve given up on defending yourself and instead are trying to claim everyone should be banned...

I never said you should be banned. I said you should get fucked. Which you should, clearly

[–]bald-janitor 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

But but I did not do any of those things, I am not like the other men

[–]radfem 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

This comment was actually for the OP, but thankyou for proving my point, twice. There's a reason the OP isn't just going to the admins and this is it. Y'all were spamming and trolling and got sent packing. I myself even tried engaging you in conversation on the pink pill sub... you just wanted to shitpost and you're not showing any different here.

[–]bald-janitor 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Y'all 🤠

[–]rdh2121 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Posts like "FUCK MEN FUCK MEN FUCK MEN YALL EAT A DICK" should absolutely be allowed, especially on a sub like /s/pinkpillfeminism, but if the comments removed are in good faith and are high on the PoD, then the admins should definitely look into the mod's behavior.

Admins, is there any way for users to see what the content of the removed comments was? Do you think all of the removed comments constitute comments that should have been removed?

Edit: And no sooner have I defended them here than I've been banned from there as well. /u/d3rr, /u/magnora7, are you looking into these bans? My comment probably deserved to be deleted, but I don't think I deserve to be censored from that community permanently without warning. Any thoughts on what's happening, and whether my ban can be overturned, would be appreciated.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

if it's ok for a sub entirely of that content to be allowed, there are some old subsaidits that should also be allowed that were removed.

[–]rdh2121 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Fair enough, the admins probably have a clearer idea of what they want out of the site than I do. Also, I have a couple of comments/questions:

  1. Posts like that are definitely not the majority of posts on /s/pinkpillfeminism, so it likely isn't analogous to the subs you're talking about.

  2. It seems to me that as long as subs that do act like that allow dissenting voices in the comments, they should be allowed to stay anyway. Were the subs you're talking about removed for not allowing dissent?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

some banned sub lists

possibly similar subs that were removed include /s/coontown and /s/fuckthealtright

I'm not sure whether ppf is removing dissenting voices right now or not, or just low-pyramid comments.

[–]rdh2121 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It looks like some of those communities might have been banned for advocating violence, which is against the ToS. /u/d3rr, do you know if that was the case?

If so, it seems that those bans were for pretty different reasons than a post simply saying "FUCK MEN" a bunch of times. Something like "Let's murder men right now" would be something I'd see as a bannable offense.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree there's a difference.

I know /s/fuckthealtright was banned before any posts were made based on the name. I don't know about /s/coontown though. I'm not sure if it was for advocating violence or for being low-pyramid.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

sub bans have been for either for violence or for the whole concept being too low pyramid, imo. supertrolls combine it all so well.

[–]teelo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the whole concept being too low pyramid, imo

By that logic you should ban all the meme and shitpost subs.

[–]itsoktobewhite 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

I was banned without warning and given no reason for banning.

edit

The reason in modlogs is 'spam'. This is completely false.

[–]bald-janitor 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Wtf, they banned me too for nothing this is abuse!

[–]theoracle 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

No it is a system that is not working well. We need optional moderation. Don't allow little tyrant mods to get attention. Let people choose who and what moderates for them.

Free speech and free listening!

https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/54cp/can_we_make_moderation_optional_can_we_have/

https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/52rx/attention_magnora7_my_ideasolution/

[–]tuesday 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am new here so quite likely the motivations for various policies is over my head but.... I thought this was a free speech site? (as long as no violence is being advocated)

I don't understand the purpose of Super Mods at all. Why not just let each sub decide and enforce their own moderation policy (again as long as no violence). It was the site-wide multi subs ban lists as dictated by the Super Mods at reddit which drove me away, even before all the sub canceling. I was banned by the social justice warriors in subs i'd never even posted in. Honestly if super mods over here are anything like at Reddit, I'll just keep looking for a site which actually does protect free speech.

"Cancer is spreading on saidit. Abusive users are already here, creating radical feminist bullshit subs, making posts like "FUCK MEN FUCK MEN FUCK MEN YALL EAT A DICK" and then censoring anyone who calls them out on it."

If your only purpose for commenting in a sub is to voice your opinion that they shouldn't exist, then you're the exact opposite of an advocate for free speech.

[–]Leo_Littlebook 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The OP just wanted feminists to service men, including fellatio. That's something I can get behind.

[–]SuperConductiveRabbi[S] 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Actually I didn't mean it in a sexual way. I meant it as an insult. I figured feminists would be upset by someone telling them to suck dick, which is a good test to see how tolerant or intolerant they are of insults.

Another Saiditor in this thread posted something far more constructive and actually defended them, and was banned as well.

So yeah, they can suck dick. I'll jump ship from Saidit far sooner than Reddit if it continues down the same path

[–]uglyelephant121 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

My comment was literally 'I think this community isn't going to last long on Saidit since most Pinkpillers went to Spinster.' Literally harmless. Didn't say anything troll-y. Didn't bash the community. But I guess that was wrongthink? With censorship like that, they're just proving me right. Powertripping mod hates when other people have different opinions.

edit: and there are no obviously listed rules for the sub so I guess the rules are 'don't disagree with the mods at all in any way.'

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Um. This would not be allowed on SaidIt. SaidIt was built to avoid this kind of stuff. If the mods of major subs did that presumably they'd be demodded.

And you've got a pretty big proportion of low-pyramid comments in your history there yourself, OP.

If they aren't going to allow responses at the same pyramid level of debate, then they should remove the sub from /all and announce that they remove opposing opinions, as per mod rule 4b. It feels wrong to say you can't make low-pyramid comments on a low-pyramid OP, unless those removed comments were even lower.

This is also why we need sites without censorship, then we can all stop fighting over who should be censored and just get on with talking about what we want to talk about.

[–]theoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Admins are just going to have headaches dealing with all these would be dictator mods. We need optional moderation :-))

[–]Kabubum 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I have never heard of pinkpillfeminism before, so I don't know anything about them. Going there now I am not sure if they are serious or just trolls lol. Anyway, I think you should be allowed to make posts with controversial titles, but then you need to be able to withstand comments with opposing views and not just ban them.

[–]yishengqingwa666 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Cry more, dude.