What would it take to make SaidIt a judgement free platform?

submitted by EpsteinIsHung from self.SaidIt

The problems I see both on Reddit and on SaidIt is that bunch of idiots jump to judgements about people that they have no understanding of. Issue with judgements is that when we make them, we also judge ourself and then we project that judgement to others.

That said, how do you guys think SaidIt could become largely a judgement free platform?

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[–]EpsteinIsHung[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also I'd like to add, that free speech is way more important than people getting along nicely and talking about surface level bullshit. Free speech should be the cornerstone of every public forum and offending people isn't an issue by itself.

[–]MakeAOCBartendAgain 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

<insert Jew Hate post here>

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

...How do you expect people to interact with one another without making determinations about the kind of person they are, let alone the kind of thoughts they might have? For that matter, how do you expect it would be possible to not do this? You need to clarify what you mean by "judgment".

[–]EpsteinIsHung[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Well, a surprising number of people here are more aware and woke than it may seem at first. Individuals who are aware, also tend to be able to observe and just be without having to form attachments to ideas or concepts. It's possible to make connections and to have opinions without actually making judgements about who someone is or interpreting what they say in a condeneding way.

For example, whenever we see posts of someone saying that they are going back to Reddit, everyone is just like "oh you want free speech but can't handle this place? You won't be missed!" and clearly judging that individual as a pussy or a snowflake. When in fact, we could just be nice and instead of jumping to the conclusion that they are just a snowflake, maybe not jump into any judgements about them?

I understand what you are saying, and I don't have the answers. Hence I posted this as a question format where people could brainstorm real and meaningful answers.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

What you're referring to are ad hominems, or antagonisms, methods employed mostly by extremists to try and bully people they disagree with off the platform. The same thing was done on Voat, and that's where they learned the tactic. I think your true problem is recognizing this kind of thing, but I think you've misplaced the cause. People will always make judgments, the true problem here is the nefarious motivation behind it.

[–]EpsteinIsHung[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I think you are describing the issue way better than I could and it doesn't bother me that much, besides the toxic impact I see it having on the less thick skinned members that aren't your typical anons.

However, I'd like to point out that people won't always continue making judgements. Because to make a judgement, is to attach yourself to an idea or concept of sorts, and there's a growing number of people who are taking their individual and spiritual growth very seriously, and recognize the need to stop attachments and judgements as part of their journey. That said, most people will continue making judgements, but this is where I see division created.

If I disagree with someone but don't think that they are necessarily wrong, I can laugh with them and tell them how awesome their perspective is. If I make a judgement that my opinion is more valid than theirs, everything will turn into a shit show.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

That's a conceited sort of fake humility if you ask me. Of course you think your opinion is more valid. If you didn't, you would believe what theirs is instead of arguing for yours.

[–]EpsteinIsHung[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What if the individual believes that there is no real separation between the self and another individual, and all is one? You can believe that both opinions are just as valid, but the opinion that you have, is more fitting for you as an individual than the opinion that someone else has.

I don't think there is anything fake about that. In fact, it's the opposite. To be able to admit that everyone's reality is just as valid as yours, takes a lot of very authentic humility. I don't necessarily have to believe in someones else's view of reality that's not compatible with mine, in order to believe in the validity of their reality to the other individual.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Quite simply, no, they're not equally valid. You can prove that they're not. Only one reality is real, that cliff either exists or it doesn't. Whether your ideas are true or not depend upon testing that reality. What's real is ultimately the arbiter of what's true.

[–]EpsteinIsHung[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Or that cliff exists as a symbol but only conveys a purpose behind it that we are not able to comprehend in our current state of mind in this existence. There is more than just one real reality. Ask a hundred individuals to describe that cliff, and they'll all give you a different description of the same object or symbol that they see.

In my opinion, humans are essentially walking quantum computers in a sense that we are completely capable of holding more than one point of view that's conflicting with another point of view that we believe in, but we don't see the issue with the conflicting points of views. As we think about our belief in further detail, perhaps we define our belief more and another belief stops being compatible with our belief system kind of like observing which gate the atom enters in the double slit experiment determines the path of the atom.

You can't prove that two opinions are not equally as valid just like I can't prove that they are. It's up to the individual to believe whatever resonates their boat.

The only thing that's ultimately real, is that I am. Everything else is just an illusion.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If there was more than just one reality, you'd be able to demonstrate it. Test it. Prove that it exists. So far, nothing like that has ever happened. The only thing you can demonstrate is based on the sole reality we have access to, and claiming something else exists is just an empty claim.

[–]EpsteinIsHung[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

We are able to demonstrate other realities... take dreams for example. Clearly we are conscious and live in a "reality", but that reality isn't the same one as we currently exists. And since perception creates reality, if an individual perceives their world to exist in multiple realities simultaneously, this is the reality that they live in and created for themselves.

Demonstrating or lack of demonstrating something doesn't make something true or untrue however. My point still stands. We should be able to accept and see the realities of others that we don't believe in, without making judgements about those realities.

[–]PassionateIntensity 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think that's possible and I don't think judgment is the problem. It's not letting people you disagree with alone to have their own opinions, in their own spaces. There are lots of things here I don't like. So what? They're not for me. A whole lot of people seem to be terrified of wrongthink cooties. It's like they can't even share a platform with someone they don't agree with.

[–]yayblueberries 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"I don't like what is happening on this website, it needs to change to fit my ideas instead of me searching the internets for a place I would fit in, preferably a safe space where nobody ever hurts anybody's super sensitive feefees."

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Real" people talking / debating without judging each other all the time... Thesis: This is neither possible nor computable.

In no case it is something to wish for, imo. This is the hook, we all bite earlier or later as human beings : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Or maybe you want us all to become this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9plTe80SosA

Discussions get more interesting when they get heated, imho.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know you think of it and then create your own platform.

[–]quickbeam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think it's possible to force that attitude onto anyone, and I think ideas definitely should be judged/analyzed/criticized. But I think separating that judgment/criticism from labeling of people is a valuable goal and will make political discourse much better and more effective. The best thing to do is to model that behavior yourself and encourage it in others.

[–]m68k 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Judgment is human nature. If you disagree with someone's judgment, feel free to call them out.

Now, just to point out that if this was Reddit, the misguided judgment would end up being a downvote brigade. :P

[–]Papitas 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Restarting humankind.