Hello saiditors how is things going? I have read you have been having some problems with the site. Something about magnora7 disappearing and missing payments for the hosting. I have really liked here, I particularly like d3rr and my interactions with him ;-) but these problems and some others I

submitted by hellosaidit from self.SaidIt

have heard are really that of any centralized platform. Ruqqus too has got issues. Reddit started out great but we all know where its at now. We wont solve the problems of social media with centralized solutions.

I would ask if you are here you consider your future, consider how the site will hold up if it goes down for good? I guess d3rr can resurrect it but really that is not the ideal solution. Making decentralized solutions is not easy but I would suggest you look into them. They need support and users. One platform I am particularly fond of is discussions.app . They have recently completed a big update and the look and function is a lot better. They have also dropped downvotes like saidit did. They have a new communities feature that allows anyone to make multiple communities from the same content. The structure of discussions.app is to have no censorship at the base but then on top content is hidden by anyone for anyone. Its a very novel solution, in its infancy, for all the moderation problems of traditional platforms. Its yet to be fully hashed out and has so many possibilities. For instance moderating around the pyramid of debate is quite possible as are many other obscure ideas.

Please consider you support for centralized vs decentralized platforms

Thanks

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[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

There's s/Cassy, an attempt to create a decentralized alternative for us, although so far things here have been running really smoothly since D3 took over as admin.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Thats good to hear I will check out the link. Decentralization is a very difficult problem but a lot of people are working on it now.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Does Discussions.app have censorship issues?

The SJWs of Lemmy built in filters for the "bad" words because they know best and people can't be trusted to think for themselves.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Its been designed to be almost impossible to censor.

Lemmy is a joke

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Besides the censorship (removed in Lenny), why is Lemmy a joke?

We've set up an instance of it. I've composed some progressive announcements about it but am waiting on some specific details before I post.

Hopefully in time others will join us - and eventually, ideally we'll mirror all this SaidIt content there, among other things. This is not to replace SaidIt, but to supplement, decentralize, and resiliently grow this community and our resources.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Well because the people behind lemmy are extreme left (they are antifa). They dont support free expression and lemmy has been built with that in mind. I tried discussing with them to make it more free in the early days and got trashed on, ie they dont want a platform that is free. They are authoritarians.

Federation is fundementally flawed in how it does everything. The same problems are on all the federated platforms like matrix, mastodon and lemmy. I only see the solution to these problems by adding nonfederated technologies like blockchain, ipfs, torrent. Maybe it can be fixed in other ways but I am not hopeful . Good luck with it.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, Lemmy is a problem. Lenny is a kind of solution. It's not perfect, but it's better than having SaidIt be a single target.

Discussions.app seems like it's for phones. Is there a PC GUI?

 

I have an idea for a solution - of course this is all easier said than done, but IMO, it seems like it could logically be done. Build a database that 1) collects metadata and statistics, 2) compares the stats, 3) weighs the odds, 4) makes predictions, 5) learns from the results. Obviously you'd need a large enough group, and newer or original content would be less predictable, but you would eventually even be able to weed out the legit users from shills, etc - simply by their results. This could of course create bubbles too, but I would rather think of them as organic communities. To make sure you had an authentic bubble rather than a shill bubble you'd need to mix it up now and then, intentionally. I like putting control in the user's hands so they would have a say in their settings, to a limit, because part of this would require throwing some crap at users now and then in order to verify their tastes.

You get a feed with 10 things: 2 you're sure to like, 2 you'll likely like, 2 you may like, 2 you won't like, and 2 wild cards. Imagine something like this, customizable to a point yet also with mandatory participation at the bare minimum. Obviously this is just an example but the fundamental idea I think is good.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

The discussions.app ui should change based on scale so there is both pc and mobile, neither is perfect as the dev is not great at frontends. Also as they just did a big change things are still in flux with bugs and features.

I have never seen algorithms work well. Reddit just introduced an ai doing what you describe and its a nightmare.

Pocketnet.app is big on algos and they dont work there.

Bubbles are unavoidable but by allowing the user to control it and not little dictating mods there is more hope that bubbles will pop or defuse. Its why I am so gunho about discussions.app and their moderation or content management. In theory it should solve the problems of reddit.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

the dev is not great at frontends.

Flow is critical. It might be worth finding some expert help in GUIs. We recently tried RetroShare which is IMO an ambitious GUI mess with lots of features but not organized well - as if they patched it all together from spare parts without intentional purpose.

My dream GUI and user preferences would have 16 modes: day/night + mobile/pc + 1) default-reset-plug'n'play, 2) basic beginner, 3) advanced, 4) expert.

I have never seen algorithms work well. Reddit just introduced an ai doing what you describe and its a nightmare.

I suspect that's because Reddit is trying to control things. I doubt the algorithm, the data, the analysis, and what they do with it is open source. If they just let it do it's thing then the results would speak for themselves and the "communities of commonalities" would reveal themselves like and insanely complex Venn diagram and users could write their own custom expressions and/or have GUI preferences to set up how they want to interface with their interests.

IMO the algorithm would be best kept as simple as possible and let the complexity unfold in the opinion votes, topical metatags, and other metadata - and how they are classified/interrelated.

Bubbles are unavoidable but by allowing the user to control it and not little dictating mods there is more hope that bubbles will pop or defuse.

Exactly!!!

Its why I am so gunho about discussions.app and their moderation or content management. In theory it should solve the problems of reddit.

Unfortunately none of this is apparent at first glance. It might be worth drafting up an outline and stuff on a wiki somewhere for lay-people, your target demographic. I'm guessing there's a GitHub thing but that's all Greek to me.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

their white paper may help

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TXVH7RdCTfITMmAVc6vlAxLpvP8Pu_k7_gLHl2cKHwc/mobilebasic

[–]Drewski 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

I like the concept of discussions.app, and I think decentralized social media is the future of free speech online. Whenever I've tried it out though I was disappointed with the layout and the content available. I've got an account and will keep following the project, hopefully it becomes more active with content and communities I'd like to participate in.

Even though the creator is MIA, I still visit the federated https://notabug.io/ and follow some other projects such as lemmy and aether. I've tried to get into other fediverse social media such as mastodon, pleroma etc but I'm not a huge fan of the twitter format and then of course you have the network effect so it's hard to get involved in a community where there isn't already content you want to see.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

nab is great but needs moderation which never got finished and wont without a dev.

Discussions has an updated UI check it out.

I too am interested in these many projects I am not sure storing on a blockchain is the solution something like torrent or ipfs would be better.

I am not a fan of twitter style at all either.

Federation has big flaws, p2p is the ideal solution. Are you on matrix?

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I too am interested in these many projects I am not sure storing on a blockchain is the solution something like torrent or ipfs would be better.

I don't know enough about any of this to speak authoritatively, but on this I'd agree 100%, from what little I do know. Also: "sharding", like partial torrenting + cumulative blockchain.

Federation has big flaws, p2p is the ideal solution.

The problem I see with Federating is the partisan bubbles. IMO they should all try to share one DB and add customizable filters to it via strong metatags and data arrays and analysis to help form the filter groups.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

IMO they should all try to share one DB and add customizable filters to it via strong metatags and data arrays and analysis to help form the filter groups.

This is what discussions.app is doing. All moderation is filters produced by users the new filter groups is called communities.

Federation is just little kingdoms of centralization and yes they form bubbles.

Yes sharding is a good idea and torrents too. Raddi uses sharding and optin moderation but its still in alpha.

Discussions.app is the only working actively developed platform that is trying this stuff.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

what discussions.app is doing. All moderation is filters produced by users the new filter groups is called communities.

Neat stuff.

https://Raddi.net
is a project aiming to develop and introduce radically decentralized discussion platform in a reaction to increasingly aggressive worldwide efforts to establish and enforce censorship.

https://www.Reddit.com/r/Raddi/
r/raddi: discussion regarding mechanics, development and technology of the raddi (radically decentralized discussion) platform

Are you on the Discussions.app team?

/u/d3rr + /u/LarrySwinger2 + /u/Optimus85, you might dig some of this comment section.

[–]Optimus85 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It does seem to have potential. Found this handy flowchart while perusing!

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Is this a response to something else?

[–]Optimus85 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No. Just something I stumbled upon while checking discussions.app. Just being my usual random self.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I was disappointed with the layout and the content available.

I would like to see a platform that allows skinning so the layout can be like Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, phpBB, or whatever - and then you do CSS themes on top of that.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

So you can do that with discussions.app . You can take the frontend and customize it. There is plans to make this easier so communities can setup behind their own urls with their own looks.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Damn! That's sounds great. Since I'd never heard of it before I assumed by pipe dream was too complicated. Some more pipe dreams: /s/PhoenixForum.

IMO those little hamburger menu icons should be everywhere to offer MOAR OPTIONS! on everything. Then you can have your GUI as complex or as simple as you like yet have the power of the features. A site having custom GUIs is great but even better if it's an option in the hands of the users.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

They have also dropped downvotes like saidit did.

I don't mind the downvote. I just don't want it subtracting. YouTube shows both up and down for a ratio.

They have a new communities feature that allows anyone to make multiple communities from the same content.

Not sure what this means. I like the idea of metatags that can act as communities. I'm on board if it's like that.

The structure of discussions.app is to have no censorship at the base but then on top content is hidden by anyone for anyone.

Very interesting idea.

You might appreciate the links in the sidebar of /s/Cassy including /s/DecentralizeAllThings.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Not sure what this means. I like the idea of metatags that can act as communities. I'm on board if it's like that.

You will understand discussions.app community feature better as filters made by groups on the platform. It is setup to look and function like subs but no one owns the content as any community can use it. You can fork a community with all its content while still being linked to the old community, content is always shared.

Thanks I have checked out cassy and will the other link.

Making these platforms is very difficult far more so than centralized ones. The sole dev xia256 behind discussions.app has been working on this for years now. It really deserves some users and recognition.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Is it difficult to install? As you've seen, Cassy is not just about one solution, so I'm thinking it would be a good thing to add to our list of platforms, perhaps even the next.

Three more things on our wish list: a good decentralized search (ie. YaCe) and some kind of auto-archiving/web-scraping to log the content we share. Obviously we wouldn't need to archive the entire internet, but most critical is the heavily censored stuff. And of course, when I get some extra PCs I aim to set up a PeerTube with several NAS. I've already got about 50tb of YouTube offline, not even counting the other offline drives full of stuff. I'm a digital hoarder.

[–]hellosaidit[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The previous version of discussions.app wasn't super hard to install, but the new version isnt on github yet though it will be.

Its easy enough to copypasta web articles into discussions and so they then get saved in the blockchain.

Blockchains are perfect for proof of original content. Like so many news articles now get edited even years later, you can not play that game with a blockchain

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

IMO the blockchain is not ideal for archiving. Before you know it the thing is too huge, and without the full ledger it won't work - unless you can have partial chains, etc.

OR archive the source address contents with IPFS then have just the source address and the IPFS address logged together in the blockchain - assuming you even need the blockchain for anything other than a master-record. I'm guessing IPFS must have their own kind of master-record type things. Sometimes redundancies are good and sometimes they're a waste.