Is this a good alternative to reddit?

submitted by IamCleaver from self.SaidIt

I have been looking for a discussion forum and accidentally stumbled upon saidit. The issue that I had with reddit are ludicrously complicated posting rules on each subreddit and absolutely ruthless deleting of threads. 3/4 of my threads got deleted for arbitrary reasons. Is this forum good place to start controversial discussions?

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[–][deleted]  (19 children)

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    [–][deleted]  (17 children)

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      [–][deleted] 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

      openly actual racial supremacist opinions

      Reddit is incredibly racist but you're only allowed to hate white people.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        The biggest problem with Reddit is they allow moderators to ban people for expressing themselves.

        I never had a problem with moderators banning people on reddit. My problem was admin quietly cherry picking moderators and admin outright banning subs they disagreed with politically. Not allowing moderators to ban people seriously messes up the flow of conversation. If I have a sub on bowhunting but it's constantly full of activist trolls I'm not going to be able to have a healthy discussion about the topic.

        [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        I don't think anyone wants a sub where nobody can be banned but certain moderators ban users who disagree with them, or have an opinion they don't like, or just for the hell of it. The rules aren't applied consistently or fairly across reddit.

        When you have millions of users, individual users can seem disposable.

        If you stick to the conservative subs that might be why you don't have a problem, they don't tend to be ban happy.

        Totally agree about the admins. Rip r/waterniggas

        [–]Escape626 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

        Good point. Lots of people have been infantilized to the point where seeing objectionable material is literally traumatizing. Those sorts of people are probably better served at a site that is strictly censored.

        [–]send_nasty_stuff 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        True but the majorities of redditors are not very aware of how censored their experience really is.

        [–][deleted]  (4 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]Flicksener 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

          I've had people try to convince me that I should join other white people and rally against non-whites on here. I didn't scream or yell or cry or complain about it, I simply debated them for a few posts and poked and prodded their thinking, and when I found the conversation had reached its logical end, I simply stopped responding and moved on with my life. For the people that took it to a personal level with petty insults, I responded in kind and blocked them. Simple as pie.

          I don't agree with what they had to say and found many of their points abhorrent, illogical, and dumb, but it's not my place to demand they be banned or silenced or banished from the internet for all time. That's up to every individual to decide, which is how it should be and why I like this website and stick around.

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          and rally against non-whites on here.

          I'd like to see the exchange were someone tried to get you to 'rally' against non whites on saidit. I'll take shit that didn't happen for 500 Alex.

          I found the conversation had reached its logical end, I simply stopped responding and moved on with my life.

          You have the right and I respect it. The problem is that most people actively try to destroy dissident ideas and conversation. They go to incredibly lengths to troll, slide, distract, dilute, deplatform, defund, and disparage.

          [–]Flicksener 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Check out my reply history, prick.

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Everybody has something to contribute to the discussion, even racists

          This use to be the standard liberal position in the United States. I remember my family and my high school teachers pounding in my brain about the merits of free expression and how it's the foundation of the republic. Not so much any more. That's a huge reason why I ventured away from liberal media and explored other political philosophies and parties.

          [–]Node 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

          Yes, they're weakling children who were mentally destroyed by that "neighborhood" kids tv show. I forget the name, but the goober running it preached racial obliviousness, and wore awful sweaters.

          They should stay on reddit to avoid encountering actual reality, and the mental breakdown that inevitably follows.

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          You mean Mr. Roger's Neighborhood?

          [–]Node 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          That's the one.

          [–]goobandit 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          It’s funny because so many minority (or formerly labeled “minority”) groups think and want the same thing for their own.

          [–]proc0 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          actual racial supremacist opinions

          "Oh no! so scary. This place has real meanies, unlike reddit which is too safe lelelel."

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          local hard alt-right population

          Local hard alt right person here. We're really nice people. You should come chat with us!

          whom literally thinks the nation's problems can be solved by segregation on a national and social level.

          Some believe that but we have true diversity of opinion. Jared Taylor is a 'right of association' guy and I'd say around a third of the dissident/alt right fall into his positions. Some people opt for full segregation because they believe that non whites will not allow whites to disassociate peacefully. If you think about it the egalitarians have the more aggressive and potentially violent position. You MUST live with us. You MUST allow us to be your neighbors or else.

          [–]CarlDung 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          You should be warned though that Saidit does allow disagreement.

          'Gasp'

          [–]jet199 6 insightful - 11 fun6 insightful - 10 fun7 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

          No, go away. It's terrible.

          [–]RandumbZer0 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

          At this point, writing a letter & setting it on fire before anyone even reads it is better than Reddit from my POV.

          [–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          I would have liked your comment if I could, but you are literally saying what I was thinking.

          [–]zyxzevn 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          For discussions it is ok. There is no downvoting or censorship of certain opinions.

          There may be some moderation to prevent angry flame wars or forum manipulation.
          There is also some shills and liars and trolls, and you are advised to use the "block user" option for those.

          Report spammers so the admins can block them from the site.

          [–]raven9 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

          Yes. This forum is much better than reddit.

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Needs more people and a native image and video upload feature. Besides that it's absolutely better (when it's not down).

          [–]EndlessSunflowers 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

          I like it here. I'm glad it looks like old reddit too. I never used new reddit, never liked it, and now it sucks there anyways, lol

          [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          The issue that I had with reddit are ludicrously complicated posting rules on each subreddit and absolutely ruthless deleting of threads.

          Most subs on SaidIt don't even have a list of rules, and most of the ones that do just copy one or more site-wide rules.

          3/4 of my threads got deleted for arbitrary reasons.

          It's actually against site-wide rules for a moderator to remove your posts unless:

          A. it breaks site-wide rules or is off-topic, or

          B. the sub has been removed from s/all and clearly lists the rules in its side-bar

          You can contact u/d3rr if you think someone has violated this rule. M7 seems to be back (even if he's ignoring me) so maybe you could talk to him too, IDK, I quit being an admin a while back and quit paying attention to who's doing what.

          Is this forum good place to start controversial discussions?

          Yep! You're allowed to have any kind of opinion you want, so long as you don't promote violence (which people have gotten away with too). I'm pretty sure whatever you want to talk about is allowed.

          [–]Canbot 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Don't make this your only alternative, but definitely have it in your list.

          [–]Flicksener 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

          Only issue I've had with this site so far is lack of participation. It doesn't feel like many people are using it. Also, leans a bit hard right/nutso extremist right wing for my taste. Lots of crazy people railing about Jews and how white people should "get together" against other races. Eh. Not my thing. Beyond that, not bad, but it's not as good as Ruqqus was before it decided to screw over its members. Still looking for a good alternative.

          [–]IamCleaver[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Given how reddit is toxically liberal it is a breath of fresh air.

          [–]Flicksener 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Yeah I had the same feeling when I first joined Ruqqus. Lasted up until it went douche. This isn't quite as good as that was, but maybe it'll get there in time.

          [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

          Yeah it's good. Not sure what sub you were posting in that your posts were deleted though? That's against saidit rules for mods to delete those if you're posting things related to the sub

          [–]IamCleaver[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Many subs. And posts got deleted for various reasons. Often they would get deleted by AI. If not then the moderators will come and delete my post because "it is the wrong subreddit for it". Honestly, given that most subreddits have pages worth of vague and arbitrary posting rules, most of my posts got deleted during this stage. The rare few that got past might get deleted the moment I write something other people dislike and my karma plummets...or the moderators personally remove my thread because my opinions are controversial.

          I once wrote an essey about my experience with British education system, where in my list of dislikes I casually included open pro-LGBT propaganda in schools. I posted the thread on 4 or five different Britain related subreddits, and it very quickly go deleted everywhere. The funny thing that remark wasn't even the point of my essey...I was trying to get people to explain to me the upsides which I missed.

          [–]IkeConn 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Yes.

          [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

          too dead here

          [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

          How many people have you invited to join since we opened?

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

          none, I guess I could try but who would I invite, I'm not friends with anyone from reddit

          I guess it's a catch 22, more people won't come here until the boards are more lively, but they won't get more lively until more people are here. Is promoting it the problem? I feel like all the reddit alternatives are too dead. Though I haven't checked them in a while. I saw voat was back. But it looks like it's all bots.

          [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

          Yes promoting is the problem. I've been doing 90% of the promotion of this website all by myself for 3 years. That's why we don't have any people. No one is helping saidit grow except me.

          [–]NeedMoreCoffee 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          Hey I mention saidit quite often on reddit. I'm doing my part.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          What would I do to promote it, I'd make a post on some sub in reddit, I'm banned but could make a new name real quick I guess. I think only people from r/conspiracy would want to come but you gotta wait like 3 months to post there.

          [–]Canbot 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          When you come across a good conversation post a link to it on other websites.

          [–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          No one is helping saidit grow except me.

          Actually...

          And if you want to develop a campaign, I'm interested in helping.

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

          If you were a real alternative to reddit you wouldn't have to promote at all. That's why Digg collapsed and reddit saw rocket ship growth. The internet is more akin to a whisper campaign or a small town sewing circle. Many movers and shakers on the internet are from a generation that HATES being marketed too. They only try things when trustworthy people suggest the site. Which means you need to get the 'hipster' type people on your site first and hope that they bring their friends who bring their friends, etc. Guerrilla marketing or no marketing is the way to go.

          IMHO saidit has not grown to challenge Reddit because it doesn't actively develop it's platform* and it has not learned how important consistency is for people looking for social media sites. The multiple monthly shut downs have cost saidit growth. I'm glad saidit is still here and I'm glad you are back Magnora7. I've seen a subtle uptick of activity on the site the last few weeks or so so maybe the 'dark winter' in the US will lead to people searching for truth and dissent. That will be a real opportunity for saidit. Hopefully it is not squandered.

          *lots of critical pieces like a native image uploader and video uploader are missing. If a small site like Slug can have these features I'm not sure why we can't.

          [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

          If you were a real alternative to reddit you wouldn't have to promote at all. That's why Digg collapsed and reddit saw rocket ship growth.

          This isn't 2007... the internet has changed a lot. There are shill and botgroups that have to be defended against so they don't poison the online culture. Growth has to outpace shill and bot activity.

          Reddit advertised hugely when they started, and were also astroturfing posts and votes to make the place appear more popular, something we didn't do at all.

          We're proof that advertising is basically necessary. I had to do all my promoting by hand, that's why 90% of the users that are here now are here, is because I mentioned saidit to them in a reddit thread. Had I not done this constant promotion by myself, literally no one would be here at all.

          The fact you think all these users will just materialize out of nowhere is pure fantasy, based on an internet culture that no longer exists.

          We've had 5 total days of downtime in 3 years. Our uptime record is actually quite good, so I'm not sure why people keep going on about that like we've failed massively in that regard. Need I remind you almost all the other alternatives completely pulled the plug?

          How about you help promote the site to others, and actually help?

          [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

          We've had 5 total days of downtime in 3 years.

          It's not a criticism, people were worried about the site and your wellbeing. Three outages happened April 22 (?), May 19, and June 21. A month apart roughly, seemed possibly bill related although D3 said it's automatic.

          The iron left troll claimed responsibility but nobody believed him. That mostly went away. Skeeter had some ties to them -- or was the entire iron left, that whole thing was weird and I don't know the whole story. Skeeter is a trip though, kinda trolly but he grows on you. He claimed he made 70 accounts, he does go through a lot although these days I don't notice him using more than one at a time. His writing is pretty distinctive, sticks out.

          D3 has done an awesome job while you were gone. I hope you like the lack of spam. He sent out mod invitations for days for different subs to a few people who went on a bug hunt to prove their chops.

          u/Axxa has done a tremendous job too. I mod to nuke spam but he's good at it. He works to improve his subs. All the guys are doing a great job. The mod queue is generally empty -- except s/whatever goes back 7mos still but soon it should be clear too. Not that it's necessary but it looks nice.

          u/Socks was a mod at s/Politics too! He did a really good job. Him and Jason still fight lol, that's like you never left.

          That's all I can think of off the top of my head of Saidit news. Glad you're not dead, don't ban me again please.

          [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Yeah it was billing-related, because they shut down our autopay without warning, twice. So we just started pre-paying to prevent that.

          D3rr is doing great.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          Not to argue with you, but I had a different experience with Reddit before and after the Digg invasion. No one wanted the Digg users to be there, and I do not recall astroturfing, but what do I know. The number of votes before the Dig invasion could be much like the number of votes here. Regardless, the main problem today at Saidit - as I've seen for almost a year - is not getting visitors (10s of thousands in the past 3 years), but keeping them. You might already know what I'll say about the latter issue, but I can clarify if necessary. I found Saidit when I had difficulties with Pakistani mod abuse on /r/Worldnews (which may still exist if anyone wants to test it: merely say something bad about Pakistan).

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

          I'm a BIG forum guy, been going on them since BBS days and I had never heard of Digg except in lore. Kinda weird, like maybe Digg didn't exist in the Mandelaverse I came from.

          [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          Interesting. Perhaps you're also dating yourself. I also dialed into BBS boards with a 2400 baud modem (or 9600?) and discussed odd things on those boards. My main reason to check out Reddit in 2007 was to see what the early 20-somethings were thinking about. There were surveys at the time, so we knew the average was age 22, and most of the group worked in IT. There was one main page with no subs, if I remember correctly. Three guys managed it and also engaged in discussion. Redditors at that time joked about the kids at Digg, who seemed to be 13-years of age, predominantly, and presumably the same age as much of 4Chan back then. There was also occasional discussion of when Reddit would "jump the shark", as there were only a few hundred of us, at best, and only 20 or 30 vonting on posts at a given time. There was no karma for comments, which I think was great. When users could get karma for comments, the quality of the posts began to dwindle. When the Digg kids arrived in (2009? 2010?), the site grew exponentially and sold to Condé Naste. I'm not sure why I'm writing this. I suppose I like writing about history. The usual Redditors noticed that - during grade school days or hours - the Digg kids were not as active, and we tried to focus duscussions during work and grade school times, in order not to deal with the kids.

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

          Most direct promotion doesn't work and most marketing has the opposite affect especially for social media sites and like I said especially for the gen x and millennial generations.

          This isn't 2007

          It kinda is. The people that got on and started using the net 2.0 heavily from 2004-2010 are a huge part of the net today and they have more money today to donate and build/promote social media sites. They are a key demographic. 2007 was also pre corporate hijacking of the internet so it was a time the people still long for and 'retro' is very in as a selling point.

          How about you help promote the site to others, and actually help?

          The fact I'm still here and share content from saidit to other people IS a promotion. Can't you see that? You need to stop thinking of your users as lazy people that don't promote the site enough. Start thinking about how you can make your site a better place for the people that already use it. I bring users to my sub on the same principle. How can I make DAR a better place? If I do promote DAR how can I do it naturally and tactfully? How can I be a mod that facilitates a healthy political discussion space? Promotion will come naturally as people use the product more and more.

          The fact you think all these users will just materialize out of nowhere is pure fantasy

          I didn't say that at all. Obviously you need a key event. (like people leaving DIGG). Many of your most consistent users are from the reddit banout of 2018. They are the reason the site is still alive. You just need to make sure you're in a position to grab market share when there's another exodus from your competitors who are doing a really shit job. Unfortunately your user experience still doesn't match anywhere close to pre sell out corporate commie reddit. Until that's addressed people will keep coming here, stay a few weeks and then leave because the tools are not there for them to do what they need to do. The oppie and Anthony sub is a good example of this failure to capitalize on internet movement.

          [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

          You simply find threads on reddit or other sites, where people are looking for alternative websites, and you simply mention saidit and give a link. It's not hard.

          Thanks for all your help building out the site, I'm just frustrated.

          I agree we need a key event, I don't know what that would be at that point though. We often contact subs about to be banned, or they'll request to come here. That's how we got about 1/2 our traffic.

          We've been basically waiting on a reddit implosion that never arrived. We thought 3 years ago they'd have gotten rid of the old.reddit.com format and we'd get those people, but they never did. Reddit has actually been extremely smart about containing damage, unlike digg which all imploded at once basically

          [–]send_nasty_stuff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          Reddit has actually been extremely smart about containing damage, unlike digg which all imploded at once basically

          That's a very good point.

          Thanks for all your help building out the site, I'm just frustrated.

          No problem and I do promote in my own way. It looks like the country is headed for some very very real political turmoil. If you can keep the lights on here a little longer you might just see a HUGE flood of people. You do have some things going for you. You have steady traffic. You have a catchy name similar to Reddit. You've survived tough times. Ruqqus and several other competitors are dead or dying. It might sound weird but your goal shouldn't be killing reddit it should be to become the best and closest alternative to reddit. If you are the only alternative that has a similar vote ranked system then you will constantly benefit as people fall away from reddit. People really get addicted to a certain layout and structure. Your structure is close enough to be the only game in town if reddit ever makes even a slight error. That's a good position to be in.

          [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          It looks like the country is headed for some very very real political turmoil.

          Yeah not even the country, but maybe dozens of countries simultaneously. It seems like the west is basically self-imploding right now, looking at Canada and Australia. Things will turn around, but dear god are people taking their sweet time in waking up to this.

          Thanks for the kind words, saidit seems to have plateued here and I'm okay with that. Maybe someday it will get mentioned somewhere popular and we'll grow suddenly, it has happened before with prior reddit exoduses. Maybe it will happen again. I think you're right about us having the old.reddit look and that being a good thing too. I just hope that reddit sheds people faster than people leave saidit, I don't want to see us dead in the water because then we have no chance. We kind of need those occasional bumps to keep the community active enough to to be worth visiting.

          [–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

          Frequently Asked Questions and an outdated incomplete article: https://InfoGalactic.com/info/SaidIt.

          [–]Brewdabier 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

          Well you have far less insecure snowflakes here vs reddit, a million less rules and the mods are very pleasant from my experience. Reddit banned me on many subs for saying tolerance of different opinions is important to society, with out it you have for example reddit.

          [–]yoke 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

          yes

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

            Some guy @k4far is dominating that place with a meme dump rn, I see very little discussion. "#BLOCKCHAIN can enable us to say the N-WORD to people from all over the world!"

            [–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

            I already have. I am currently choosing between these two. I am not that hellbent on free speech as to care about the technicalities as long as my threads don't get deleted. What matters to me most is participation - which site has more users.