Shills and Narratives

submitted by Jesus from self.SaidIt

I’m noticing an uptick in activity with new users that concerns me. Many posts are blaming everything on jews. Jews did this, jews did that. No context, just links to forums rife with disinformation. Name the specific Jews and the players involved in whatever argument you’re trying to make. Saying jews did 9/11 or Hitler was a cryptojew with all his advisors also being jews is a path that will eventually lead to this site being censored. Like the GDL, this is an infiltration tactic to create a problem of ‘anti-semitism’, via shill posts that blame everything on Jews, those posts will eventually get noticed by radian 6 or whatever other algorithm intelligence agencies use, they will then create the desired reaction to engender the final solution. That being removal of this forum.

I know many of these posts are shills because they are new users, the post titles are out of context, the text within the posts are usually an assortment of links all strewn toegther, context or not, and upon looking through said posts, many are forums with disinformation and misinformation.

Rubbing two brain cells together makes me think something is up.

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[–]solder0 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, it's why I left voat. Too much "jew" this, and "nigger" that really gets on my nerves. It's like fucking /pol/, it went waaaaay passed just being edgy teens.

Saidit is better, and I hope it can survive.

[–]Alduin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

those posts will eventually get noticed by radian 6 or whatever other algorithm intelligence agencies use, they will then create the desired reaction to engender the final solution

That's not quite the goal I think. Otherwise Voat would be shut down. It's a honeypot. And those agencies are probably the ones doing it.

Think how valuable it must be to have the IP addresses and times (which for the government means name and address) of all those racists on Voat. They don't even have to send any request to the admins, they just make some pop up image hosting server or fake news page, post it a few times and done.

Here's a fun little experiment. Ask one of them if you should be using TOR and encryption. You'll usually get something along the lines of "if the government wants to know who I am then they know. No point in hiding it." Which may be true, but the purpose behind the comment is to dissuade.

Watch what they want you to do. For example they often give search alternatives to DDG, often with some poorly cited allegation of corruption on the part of DDG, which is how you know to trust that search engine.

[–]useless_aether 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

i m against ddg. it is using amazon web services. that means cia/nsa

[–]Alduin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe you're right, I don't really know. All I know is I've seen lots of people whom I believe are shills (for unrelated reasons) that share the common trait of telling people not to use it. Almost always with a recommendation for something they would prefer you used.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So use Google instead of DuckDuckGo. :P

There's also:

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nice!

[–]Tom_Bombadil 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Almost always with a recommendation for something they would prefer you used.

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I suspect Tor is a trap too. Developed by the Navy + they caught Silk Road = not secure.

What you barely hear about is ZeroNet, IPFS, the Fediverse, and Holochain. And I've never heard anyone saying they were a scam (yet).

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Tor is definitely compromised, no question. Using Tor is like putting a target on your back, imo

[–]happysmash27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interestingly enough, after I enabled Tor due to this comment, SaidIt gave me permission refused errors. This means that SaidIt doesn't support Tor…

[–]Jesus[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anywho, thanks!

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Last in my SaidIt wish list https://infogalactic.com/info/SaidIt#Wish_lists I have:

Statistics:

  • open transparent statistics

  • registered user numbers, traffic, etc

I put it last because I was just curious, as a fan about the growth numbers, etc and didn't think it that important, nor did I think my geeky interest might be shared. And yet, now it might be very important.

I'm all for keeping your identity and private messages private but everything else should be transparent.

I'd like to see a red flag and/or anti-semitism and/or "hate speech" vote and or option.

At present there's a "report" option with

  • Spam

    • Personal and confidential information
    • Threatening, harassing, or inciting violence
    • Other

I don't know if this is where these options should be added or what. I'm certainly not even saying these need to be acted upon (ie. deletion). "Hate speech" is such a loaded term anyway. But if we can at least statistically track much of the problemic content then that may help us root out the problems and deal with them as required. Right now it's about collecting information - openly. To be informed and prepared and to rationally deal with it.

/u/magnora7 and /u/d3rr - If you're going to add a "read/unread" you might as well also add metatags and red flags and start counting.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

registered user numbers

go to saidit.net/s/ and look at the most popular sub to see the registered user numbers. This is how we look it up, it's already open.

Thanks for the ideas

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I see posts about the numbers but I don't see how to get to those numbers.

"Just for fun I dug deep and had a look at all the stats for saidit and wanted to share."

Sharing is good. Open numbers is better.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I literally just told you how... It's already open.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Where?

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Go to saidit.net/s/ look at the most popular sub on the list, it says how many people are subscribed

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry. I was looking at popular posts not subs. Twice.

I guess no one unsubs from technology.

Any chance you could put a total registered subscribers number in the footer or top right corner? "SaidIt: 8 Billion Served". Maybe with a link to a registered user list (if folks get weird about it).

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

8 trillion.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any chance you could put a total registered subscribers number in the footer or top right corner?

No, this is a 5-hour project that involves a bunch of database calls and javascript and serves little purpose. The subscribed number is good enough

[–]Jesus[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Are jews semites though? I think a hate speech vote is a little over the top.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't care about whether they are or aren't. Whatever the flag is called is up to you. I'm just talking about tracking it since there's no effective search utility. Of course this would require active participation. And our crowd, myself included, are only human and not remotely as disciplined as we could be, if even just for capitals on proper nouns, much less self monitoring and maintaining an arbitrary flag.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So if you were admin of saidit, how would you handle this?

[–]Jesus[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

I would watch these users closely. I don’t know how to combat what alduin calls a honeypot. I’d suppose a public inquiry into the matter would work. There should be a sub for these matters. It’s not that bad now but if they flood all to the point where they take up the majority of posts something should be done. But then again, freespeech, so I don’t know.

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I would watch these users closely.

Yes, been doing this for weeks.

I’d suppose a public inquiry into the matter would work.

That's what this thread is, is it not?

It’s not that bad now but if they flood all to the point where they take up the majority of posts something should be done.

By then it's probably too late, once they're rooted in it's hard to remove and you wind up with a site like voat where you can no longer tell the legitimate users from the racist shills.

So now what would you do?

[–]Jesus[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Jesus Christ, I don’t know.

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Alright, after a lot of thought, I think we're going to make a rule change soon, no upvoting yourself with alternate accounts. Seems the only reasonable way to move forward.

[–]fred_red_beans 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Seems hard to enforce when the alts can come from different IP addresses. Although I could see how a pattern might be easier to see when usernames are shown with votes.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And also when they always link to the same site, or use the same odd phrases. There's lots of ways to piece together the puzzle

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah now you know how I feel.

I guess the only course of action is to ban those who are upvoting themselves, and make a new rule to that effect.

Either that or just try to ignore it and let it fester and fester in the name of "free speech". But I guess upvoting yourself with alt accounts has nothing to do with speech so I shouldn't feel bad about it.

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Don't feel bad. I haven't even seen MartinTimothy argue back on this matter (not that I've even come close to reading all of SaidIt).

Pick a phrase:

  • free speech vs free speech unfairness / rigging

  • free speech vs drowning out free speech

  • free speech vs artificial amplification

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

artificial amplification is the problem, one person creating the false appearance of group consensus

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Quarantine their submissions into their own subs. The submission titles can't be refuted without clicking on the comments.

The crazy comments can easily be debunked, or ignored. Plus, they rarely respond to comments in a coherent way.

It's unlikely that they will reach out to you to appeal their quarantine. If they do, that would be progress. Take that opportunity to consider their appeal, motivations, etc. If they don't then they may make new accounts, and get back at it.

It's a terrible option, but doing nothing is getting nothing but vigorous debate.

Vigorous hand-wringing intensifies!

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not that I want anyone outed, but maybe as admin you can see their IP addresses - and if they're all coming from one region or one VPN or whatever...

[–]SundogsPlace 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

hmmmm, almost seems like it's time to run for the hills, once realizing the discussion is over buzz words, phrases, or beliefs that can get an entire website deleted.... What was that thing Voltaire said??? lol

One way, or another, we're presently living in 'that world', the one of almost nightmares; tune into tomorrow, or you may miss the reactive programming you'll need in order to not be penalized that day going forward....

[–]Jesus[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s happened in China. The US isn’t far behind. Half the stuff written here, we’d be jailed in China. Mental hygine “dissident” laws are coming.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

your the shill, go backout