I respect and admire both Tim Kelly and Joseph Atwill.

I still strongly disagree with some things they espouse.

Tim is a religious Catholic and Joe wrote Caesar's Messiah about the fake origins of Christianity, and I'm assuming is atheist - but both are conservative on some things like sexuality.

I agree that for many people living "wild" can be detrimental, both to society and the individual - and may lead to lonely old life. Contrarily many people grow old and trapped, dependent on someone they have not cared for in a long time. And this isn't even delving into their unabashed disgust at gays.

Our engineered culture does not teach people how to be better partners, much less other things like how to be polyamorous, gay, bi, straight, safe, etc. Nor foster other alternatives like communes and community life, much less teach about it. Relationship education is critically lacking in our society. This is intentional.

There's no doubt gays are not "normal" by any statistical measure. But neither are glasses on kids, or redheads, or Deaf people. Not being "normal" should not be demonized.

I admit, the gay parades are a little too much and don't help their cause. Keep it in the clubs and bedrooms - like the rest of us do - or clean up the fornication-focus and be classy. St. Patrick's Day parades aren't all about fucking gingers.

Don't get me wrong. I've walked naked in the streets of Black Rock City at Burning Man and on the beach of Vancouver, BC. Nudity is not a problem - for those who can handle it maturely. Clearly Tim & Joe can't and neither can conservative prudish hypocritical North America in general who freak out about nipples.

The trans agenda is just manufactured political division and distraction. Those rare people have serious problems and deserve our compassion. They should not be demonized until they do something wrong, like everyone. Neither should they get a free pass for all this nonsense.

Ultimately, the bottom line is that I've seen gay parents that were VASTLY superior to straight parents or single parents by all objective measures. And so called "degenerate" gay impulses do not lead to pedophilia, bestiality, etc. - just as alcohol or pot does not lead to crack or heroin - or a kiss does not lead to rape - or every restaurant has a washroom. Just because one often, if not always, proceeds another, it does not mean it's going to lead there.

Sexuality has long been weaponized and Tim & Joe are buying into one side of the dialectic.

This is longer than intended but needed to be said.