all 52 comments

[–]reluctant_commenter 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

The "transgender brain" claim has been debunked.

The original claim was something along the lines of, "Transwomen's brain scans look different from other men's brains." My understanding is that when comparing the average brain scan of a man vs. a woman, there are some patterns of difference... but they're not very large at all. In the case of transwomen, most of those studies were done on "homosexual transsexual" (HSTS) transwomen. Studies performed later controlled for homosexuality and found that the effect disappeared. I.e., a man identifying as trans doesn't mean his brain is different from other men's...

Whenever i ask them what exactly does it mean,i never get an answer that doesn't resort to gender stereotypes.

Yeah that sounds about right.

[–]jacques1102[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

There was also the argument i herd that the gender stereotypes isn't the argument they make.When they say they feel like a woman they usually say when they lay down and close their eyes,they feel like their sexual organ(penis in this case.)shouldn't be there and should be a vagina.That's another argument they usually make when they say they have a female brain.

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (15 children)

I feel like I have a phantom horn growing out of my forehead. Does that mean I have the brain of a narwhal?

[–]jacques1102[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Don't get me wrong i agree with you fully.Imo the biggest trick i feel trans activist have done is try to make gender dysphoria different from body dysphoria in general.It's amazing how wanting to cut off your penis is some how not the same as wanting to cut off your finger.

[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry if I sounded curt, wasn't directed at you :) That was just the first thought that came into my head, lol.

It's amazing how wanting to cut off your penis is some how not the same as wanting to cut off your finger.

Yeah, it is. As I've heard many people observe these days... "If you wouldn't give an anorexic liposuction, why would you cut the dick off of a guy with gender dysphoria?"

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As of now the only other treatment is the permanent cure: death.

It's a dark world we live in.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They want to make it all social, as if it wouldn't exist at all if it weren't for "bigots" refusing to recognize gender identities. People with body dysphoria are transphobic because they claim there are biological differences, which our pseudo-science has thoroughly debunked (by merely saying so).

I will say though, if it were just one part you could very well be right. But when a whole bunch of problems all point to the same thing, I have trouble believing it's all coincidence.

[–]LordoftheFliesAmeri-kin 2.0. Pronouns: MegaWhite/SuperStraight/UltraPatriarchy 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Nah, you're probably unicorn-kin.

[–]LyingSpirit472 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You mean, you're a stunning and brave narwhal, Hitler! Satan! Rowling!

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It's not phantom parts, it's distress from having or not having them. I imagine you'd be pretty upset if you switched bodies with someone of the opposite sex. The problem isn't feeling like something, it's not liking how you do feel. But you never hear that because only the idiots are useful for the entire reason behind all these progressive movements, which is political agendas.

[–]Cass 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I imagine you'd be pretty upset if you switched bodies with someone of the opposite sex.

See, that's what I was trying to understand the last time we spoke, how does it feel, because I think most people wouldn't be distressed if they changed bodies (after a period of accommodation) (assuming the process of changing bodies wouldn't be traumatic). We're not our bodies. Plus, our bodies change all the time without us wanting them to.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There's a few subtle differences set up to function with sexual characteristics, at least that's all I can think of causing it. It wouldn't be like dysmorphia, you just wouldn't like it. Keep in mind that many of the differences are in perception and thought or even feeling, that's the hardest part. But the body isn't fun either. And one of the biggest blows is from envy, seeing everyone else cruise and adapt very well while you're stuck in a ditch I can assure you will never, ever get out of.

[–]Cass 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

subtle differences set up to function with sexual characteristics, at least that's all I can think of causing it.

What does this mean? Can you elaborate please?

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's impossible. It would be like trying to explain colors to a colorblind person. In fact I bet you've never seen red-green or blue-yellow, and can't imagine them. But cross your eyes and get red and green or yellow and blue to overlap and you'll see it, something entirely new and unimaginable until now.

What I can assure you though is it's got everything to do with biology and nothing at all with "gender" however they're defining it today. It's also not normal at all to despise your sex characteristics; a little dread before puberty is typical, but it should not be persisting into adulthood at which point 99.9999% of people have embraced it. There are functional differences, it makes sense that a properly developing person has inclinations to match those functions, even though they're hardly noticeable in 3rd person. I can't stand how this feels, since puberty I can barely even think, and even before then I thought way too much about how it felt being the other sex. It was explicitly not social; I actually tried to rationalize it as wanting to stay the same gender, just with the body of the other one. Of course now I know that's all there is to being a certain gender, which took me way too long to figure out. But you won't ever get a trans activist to admit that, because they're too devoted to the "social construct" and anyone with dysphoria is transphobic to them for not pretending sex doesn't exist. What's even the point of this social construct? Just plain sexism? They don't even know, because this whole thing started as usual by sabotaging a troubled group and making into a wokeness competition, and like I said of course they can't understand it.

I would probably need a period of adjustment myself, but afterwards would be a lot better. There's also detrans people who gave themselves dysphoria by transitioning because of a fad.

[–]Cass 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You're right, it is very hard for me to understand.

I thought way too much about how it felt being the other sex

How do you think being the other sex feels? Like, if I think about being a man I imagine I'd be Conor McGregor and beat up my annoying neighbors. I actually have a list of people I'd beat up. And I'd work in construction or smth. Stuff like that.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that's the difference, most people never think about it, and if they do it's usually sexual objectification. If I asked any guy what he'd do if he were a woman he'd say something like play with his breasts. That sounds really dumb to me, and doesn't he realize that would lose its appeal? You already mentioned what you would do if you swapped. But if it were me I would do...nothing different. I just wouldn't have to deal with this body anymore, and I'd be in a much better spot to do what I'm already trying to do.

FYI there are some women who work in construction. And please don't beat up your neighbors.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's not phantom parts, it's distress from having or not having them.

I think we're saying the same thing here, actually. I was (jokingly) referring to distress from not having a body part.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A phantom body part is something you can feel that's not really there. That would actually alleviate dysphoria some.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That might actually be the case sometimes, but sadly that's not the argument they make. They'd consider that transphobic because it assumes women don't have penises.

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup, exactly. Thanks, I was feeling lazy and didn't bother pulling up an article.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The original scientific paper never made the same claims that the 100s of sociology papers which cited that paper made. Then the original authors came out and clarified that they never made the claims.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

So it sounds like the only observable difference then is sexuality.

There has to be a few others that deal with sexually dimorphic biology, but that's such a small difference I don't know if it can ever be detected. Nothing with an effect on cognitivity. There are some behavior and ability differences but they're all caused by hormones and only appear post-puberty, so that can't be the cause.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There are some behavior and ability differences but they're all caused by hormones and only appear post-puberty, so that can't be the cause.

(Kind of a tangent) I don't know what ones you have in mind, but I've read that supposed ability differences between the sexes mostly do not replicate across countries, with the exception of spatial reasoning. (edit: I mean cognitive abilities, to be clear, not physical strength differences.)

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're not really noticeable on the surface. But they do have different ways of arriving at the same result, and it does show when someone is expecting to do it one way but other parts of their wiring developed to do it the other.

Even spatial reasoning is just a trend, not a hard difference. That's the vast majority of sexual dimorphism. But it does add up, so there's no specific thing that's different, but the sum is significant. That's how you can almost always tell faces apart, even though there's no trait that all men have and all women don't, or vice versa. It really sucks when that doesn't work for you.

[–]LtGreenCo 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

They will tell you brains are innately gendered, and then in the same breath say that gender is purely a social construct and you're a bigot for perpetuating gender stereotypes, then they'll go and LARP as the opposite sex by employing those same stereotypes.

They don't know what the fuck they believe.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's linked to poor motor skills and certain neurological disorders (which all happen to be caused by unusual prenatal hormones). The person doesn't respond to their biology in the right way. The key word to note there is biology. Not social roles, not gender, not personality.

But trans activists will only give you stereotypes. Because to them gender is a social construct and acknowledging biological differences is transphobic.

This is probably not something most people can comprehend without experiencing. That's why trying to draw awareness to it only results in a bunch of snowflakes flooding in because they don't understand and think it's about "diversity" and gender-nonconfirmity and identity, and then they just make it look stupid. Actually wanting to spread awareness in the first place is already a mistake, because for all who are afflicted this is a terrible disease to be treated and ignored as much as possible, not something to be celebrated. It's not an identity. Just like few cisgender people spend every waking moment thinking about gender. It's just not important. If someone does that, they probably don't have gender dysphoria, they have snowflake syndrome.

[–]LyingSpirit472 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Well, not just snowflake syndrome, but "the most virulent believer is the new convert to a religion. Egg cracking is the telltale sign there.

If you REALLY asked one of those people, their answer would actually be "everyone is trans, they just don't know it yet!"

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yep, and "all cis people are bigots!".

There's not many people who are 100% typical of one gender in every aspect, if any at all. That doesn't make everyone non-binary, it's just normal variation. But they want everyone to be non-binary, kind of like how furries claim everyone is a furry for watching cartoons with animal characters in them.

[–]LyingSpirit472 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

People say 'gender' is the new word for personality.

It's worse. Gender is how you tell people the personality YOU THINK YOU HAVE and the nicknames YOU WANT, ignoring the fact that in most cases, personality and nicknames are judged by other people. If you have to tell people you have a type of personality, you probably are not.

Seeing as most of their gender is never "I am an insufferable git who takes literally everything you do including nothing as a personal slight against me", this is why they fail.

[–]PenseePansy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

THIS. Somehow, it's been decided that the claim of "trans-ness" automatically makes you special-- meaning interesting, compelling, attractive, generally exceptional, etc.-- and everyone else is now obligated to perceive you as such. But that's not the way this works, at all. "Specialness" of this kind, like beauty, exists in the eye of the beholder. You know that you're interesting, etc., only if people keep telling you so (implicitly and even explicitly) through their reactions. It's not something you can command of them: "I hereby order you to find me special!" And proclaiming that you've based your identity on a profoundly-regressive, cruel (responsible for more human misery than anything else we've ever devised), stupid ideology like "gender" sure does nothing to prove your OH SO ✨SPARKLY✨ credentials.

[–]proc0 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's possible but that doesn't automatically mean it justifies the movement and all it's demands on society. The fact is no one understands the brain at the "software" level, specifically things like consciousness and how thoughts arise in the brain. Therefore no one understands the root cause of any mental illness, including dysmorphia. Simply observing symptoms indirectly is not enough to understand the mechanisms of how it works.

Once we do find out, the cure could be something completely different than what is currently being done. Imagine some neural brain therapy that targets a specific area of the brain that somehow got "tangled", and this reverses any kind of body dysmorphia in the baby. If some cure like that is discovered, it wouldn't make sense to let people suffer by letting them feel like they were born in the wrong body. It's literally like anorexia or bulimia. It doesn't make sense to have those be identities that people feel proud of. I think it's cruel, and in a few years we'll look back at this time like we look back at lobotomies and other atrocities of the medical industry.

[–]Haylstorm 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean the feelings come across as a brain mapping issue, where it's mapped itself wrong hence why it's throwing up the you have X symbols. If anything it seems similar to Body Identity Integrity disorder and some of the research there could pay off for trans people too. Interesting findings with the grey matter.

However a small sample of people with body integrity dysphoria connected to their left leg have had MRI scans that showed less gray matter in the right side of their superior parietal lobule. The amount of gray matter missing was correlated to the strength of the patients' desire to remove their leg

Theoretically a similar thing could exist for trans people. I think when we can locate the cause we'll be able to work on a solution. Wouldn't be surprised if it involves electricity, sorta like how depressed people describe electroshock therapy as like a reset for their brain.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah people who think like that are both extremely sexist and make people with gender dysphoria look like complete idiots. Sadly they are many thanks to the trans movement.

    [–]IMissPorn 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Something to keep in mind every time you hear about brain scans.

    No that doesn't mean it's all junk science, but it's apparently pretty easy to get a false positive. For those who don't wanna bother clicking, this is a study on the parts of the brain activated by analyzing human social interactions, using a dead salmon as the subject.

    [–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    In fMRI experiments, there are a LOT of pieces of data to compare, and without statistical correction for this phenomenon (which is not always done), some will indeed be significant, just by chance.

    Yes, and when researchers do this intentionally, it's called p-hacking.

    Also, that's a great article lol, thanks for sharing.

    [–]waggleburrito 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    They don't typically try to use the brain angle beyond a figurative 'mind' because if you could objectively determine the gender of the brain, it would remove any subjective element, and the entire trans concept is subjective (and arbitrary).

    But as usual, they intentionally mix terms anyway. Sex, gender, gender roles, and gender identity are all different things but they act like they're interchangeable from one sentence to the next.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Why do the last 3 even exist?

    [–]clownworlddropout 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    The mismatched brain thing is fake, the "trans brain" studies only show us exactly what we expect to see in homosexuals. Yes, it's been known for decades that heterosexual and homosexual brains are measurably different, and in the case of homosexuals more closely resembles the opposite sex.

    There's no biological cause of transsexualism, it's completely manufactured. A "cure" without a disease.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    There probably is a cause, but it's not detectable. And when you limit it down to people who actually have gender dysphoria and aren't just saying they "feel" like the other gender, most of them are either gay or have an unusual sexuality anyway.

    [–]Femaleisnthateful 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    So if there are gendered brains, a brain scan should be a requisite for identifying as the opposite sex. That would also be a great way to avoid false positives ie people who will later detransition. How readily do you think the genderspecials would go for that?

    Not sure if there are 'demigirl' and 'nonbinary' brains tho....

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The difference would be so small it's probably impossible to detect. Plus they're looking in the wrong places. Ever since leftists who have no idea what this is about took over, everyone thinks it's a nice new way to have gender norms again. So they look for personality differences rather than where they would actually lie, which is probably body mapping, sensory perception, and instincts. Dissociation and loss of most talent is probably a sign too, because while it isn't easily visible from the outside the sexes do have different ways of thinking up similar results for some reason. The problem is it's only the inclination to think one way that manifests in GD, the rest of the brain still responds to hormones and develops assuming it's going to think the other (probably because this mostly doesn't happen until puberty). So I doubt it would be visible on a brain scan, but it could cause someone to suddenly lose their mind when they start puberty because they don't like or don't know how to use their remodeled one.

    [–]The_Best_Yak_Ever 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    This is one of the things I can’t get past. I’m sorry, but I couldn’t tell you what being a woman feels like. I was born a male. I grew up a male. Society treated me as a male. I’ve never had a period. I’ve never had breasts. I have no idea what feminine arousal or climax feels like. Society never treated me as a woman. All of those aspects are critical. No matter what you want, you can’t really say you “feel” like the opposite sex, if you have no point of reference.

    I think that’s something that annoys me the most. It’s appropriating an experience that you haven’t actually had. Someone may wish they were born the opposite sex, but to claim you somehow intrinsically understand the experience by nature of your “gendered” brain.

    I can be compassionate and respectful of people with gender dysphoria. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone! But it doesn’t mean I accept that it means they are truly the same as a biological man or woman.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It doesn't feel like anything. The only way someone could say that is if their personality steps outside of gender roles and they think they're obligated to stick to stereotypes.

    Well I shouldn't say it doesn't feel like anything. But that feeling happens as a result of your sex characteristics, it's no inborn identity. No one can feel like the opposite sex, except partially with medical interventions. That can be a serious problem if you don't like that feeling or the abilities it gives and takes away from you. Obviously a properly developing person would naturally be inclined to like them, sometimes fiercely, so that those functions are fulfilled and their vessel actually works. It's tragic when this doesn't happen correctly.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Female brain: You know, maybe take the Subaru down to a public golf course and flirt with the girl running the beer cart. Hopefully make it to Sturgis at least every few years. Softball and beers with your crew on Wednesday night. Refinishing your own vintage red oak floors all weekend, and then sitting there with a strong drink and your lady and just nesting...

    [–]Newzok 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I think you can make an argument that men and women have small but tangible differences in how they think ,form relationships and what they find interesting in general. Women socialise differently, men get interested in certain things women tend not to(have you ever met a woman who has fixing engines as a hobby?). I've not met a trans person yet whose manner of going about things wasn't congruent with their biological sex - down to talking about how they're being perceived and where their insecurities are.

    Still, I don't really mind. As long as they're happy and don't bother anyone that's really all that matters. I just hope it's a legit solution to their woes.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    have you ever met a woman who has fixing engines as a hobby?

    Definitely. But she almost always has autism. Everyone else is shallow and stops having many genuine interests after childhood, they only hop on every bandwagon they can find. Actually men with those interests usually have autism too, they're just quite a bit more likely to have it. Interestingly autism is present in like 1000% of gender dysphoria cases.

    I just hope it's a legit solution to their woes.

    There is one legit solution: going to sleep forever! And that's not really an option either, so nothing can really be done about it (although FtM transitions work surprisingly well). Fortunately it's very rare, and the vast majority of people who claim to have it are mistaken or intentionally taking advantage of the new self-ID rule.

    [–]tyranicaloverlord 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Using the Brain difference argument is stupid on their behalf, it's based on bullshit pseudo science. It does open the door for you to challenge them on the idea that there is a gay brain and a straight brain. That will mentally break them if you bring it up.

    [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Sexuality is actually the only detectable difference so far.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Ehhh...not really. We can detect if someone has learned how to play Super Mario Bros., but we still can't figure out what the differences are between the sexes, or if there even are any that aren't hormonal. But what does make them seem so different is how everything humans do is trying to look attractive for the other sex. Look at young kids or people with autism and you won't find such a huge gap.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        I don’t respect you because of your belief.

        You must not respect very many people then, if your standards are 100% agreement with you on everything.

        [–]BiHorror 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        If trans weren't a thing, the scans they refer to would correctly be labeled as "GAY MEN'S brain scans," because if you look at the scans of gay men vs "straight" transwomen, they're very similar for a reason. The scans referring to gay men, it is shown that their brains are similar to straight women. But only in specific areas, and that still doesn't mean they have a "female" brain.

        To them, "female brain" and "male brain" is just based on sex stereotypes and roles. To have a "female brain" usually refers to said stereotypes. Most women seen (and expected to be) are feminine, therefore it must be that feminine = female brain.

        As for the actual brains, there are small differences between males and females, but again, small difference.