all 39 comments

[–]handbananasrevenge 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

If 97% was accurate, then there wouldn’t be the 41%.

[–]Adventurous_Ad6212 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

So 59% are happy then? Sorry chumbucket but if transtioning was a democracy it would still be for the best. So just give in and get neutered already.

[–]hfxB0oyA 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

59% don't kill themselves. You can be miserable and still not decide to kill yourself. Ask most married people.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Fuck it, ask most people living in Portland, Seattle or San Francisco who are unable to leave. Most of them still haven’t killed themselves. Yet.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i think the ones that don't an hero are the ones who become increasingly sexually aggressive until they get arrested

[–]jacques1102[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But but activists told me that was only because society doesn't accept them!

[–]Dzonatan 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They congregate with their own kind so the logical conclusion is that they don't accept themselves.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Course not. What the fuck you think happens when you get a bunch of self centered pariahs together in one place. They have to compete for their own attention. Why you should be worshiping the ground I walk on and you want me to worship the group you walk on? What a fucking joke. I'm clearly better than all of you! Why are you getting so offended!

[–]Caessium 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Imagine you're a person who's convinced that the only thing that can make their life whole is to become the other sex than you are. You start to wear clothes stereotypically associated with this sex and use opposite pronouns, but it doesn't help; even if some people agree to treat you as a man (or a woman), it's clear they're just being polite. At this moment, you could give up with barely any consequences, but instead, you shell out a fuckload of money on an irreversible surgery that everyone claims to be life-changing.

What are the chances you'll claim to be unhappy after making such a choice? You didn't want to be a man (or a woman) when it took zero effort from you, but now you have that figured out? Are you going to get another surgery that will, at best, undo 25% of the damage the previous one caused? Admit that you mutilated yourself for nothing? No, of course not. You're happy. You're delighted. The only thing that makes you unhappy at the moment are those people who won't recognize you as a true woman (or man), but it's their fault. As soon as you get rid of transphobia, everything will be all right.

Besides, you're so deep in the rabbit hole that if your "friends" ever catch a whiff of unhappiness, they'll do everything to convince you that you're wrong—because that puts their choices in a bad light and suggests they may have made a mistake, or helped others to make a mistake. To even get the chance to allow yourself to admit you're not happy, you'd have to ditch all those people who were your lifeline for years.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

crabs in a bucket

[–]Newzok 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Goddamn I hope this isn't how it is but I think you're right.

[–]jet199 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

They have a huge dropout rate on these surveys. The drop out on trans research is 30-70%, usually 10% would bring the research into question. They just don't bother keeping tabs on their patients.

And what do you think happens to those 30-70% who just disappear?

The only good study so far is the Swedish one and that shows suicide attempts go up after surgery.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043071/

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You can have plenty of “lost to follow-up” but your data better be bloody good. One of the things I did early in my medical research career was write to the lost patient’s GPs in the hope of getting some follow up data for our research. It was almost always “patient died” as it was cancer research, but that was invaluable data. The fact that no one is trying to contact these trans patients is suspect as hell, and it’s why the NHS has now said that they will follow every trans patient very carefully from now on, because as I understand it, our NICE (the body that decides what gets paid for on the NHS and what doesn’t) is struggling to justify funding lots of the trans healthcare stuff due to the lack of evidence.

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

It was almost always “patient died”

Same with post surgery trans treatment, which is why they don't want to look into it.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

🤣

[–]iamonlyoneman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The highest percentage of "lost to followup" I've seen in trans research is about half.

Your results are garbage at even a few percent. If you are studying a cohort where "the patient died" means your desired result is invalidated, "lost to followup" is a huge red flag BTW

[–]OuroborosTheory 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

plus they named it for the villains in That Hideous Strength

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

If the statistics are real then there should be no issues showing us the source of them?

I suspect that any kind of regret probably manifests over the long term rather than the short term. Though that is entirely my theory and not backed up by any evidence beyond simply being common sense.

[–]jacques1102[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well there was this study that said 51 out of 55 studies found that 93% of trans people are happy with surgery.Still,i do think it's eye opening that the detrans sub was being attacked by activists because of those that weren't happy with surgery. https://whatweknow.inequality.cornell.edu/topics/lgbt-equality/what-does-the-scholarly-research-say-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd have to go into the studies specifically. I find it somewhat hard to believe those statistics however when we consider that the failure rates of MTF bottom surgeries are close to 50%.

[–]youtalkintome 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, 41 of those studies (no, that’s what I actually counted lol), can immediately be disregarded as they were conducted prior to 2015, when the gender affirmative model was made the standard (and was only initially conceived in 2013). The guidelines for transition were far stricter prior to that.

[–]CreditKnifeMan 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

There's probably a 97% satisfaction rate for the surgery involving coring out the penis shaft, and inverting the penis skin, and sewing it to the lower intestines, and sometimes it gets infected, and stinks.

Fewer than 3% of people ever complain about this physiological upgrade, and they have loser friends.

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I tend to think it's either because they were groomed into it, or because they realize it doesn't work as well as they'd been told and they end up as a mixed mess rather than the opposite sex. I'm sure some of them would have been happy if they could change sexes for real. Others had no issues with their birth sex until society said they have to be a certain way.

[–]LyingSpirit472 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, it'd be more likely because in modern echo chamber culture, people are through the looking glass with their weird beliefs.

Before, if someone told someone it was stupid, they'd keep it hidden- now there's an echo chamber to be their hugbox and make sure their belief is right.

That turns weird beliefs into a religious fervor and a willingness to kick out anyone who doesn't believe what they believe...

...but now, these beliefs somehow goes further than religion or cults. At least with religion or a cult there's a chance you find out something's wrong and leave the group over it. Now, people get into their belief structure too deep, and KNOW apostates are hated more than non-believers, that when every single straw of truth is taken away and they know damn well their belief is wrong, the person will choose to be stubborn for the sake of being stubborn. They know that they're wrong, but to change your mind and be right means that they let you WIN- and they'd rather be wrong than admit that you won.

[–]Herpa_Derpa_Island 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

claiming that it's just social pressure and the results are invalid results is a classic hallmark of the intellectually dishonest. It's an unfalsifiable claim that will always be unfalsifiable because the perception that trans people are an aberration can never be eradicated. It's also something that, even in a best case scenario, can never be known even by the most fervent of the people who believe it. What this means is the claim is intrinsically inseparable from preferential interpretation, and so refuting the claim will always have justification equal to that of making the claim if not better.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never looked into details concerning these “numbers”. It looks like such a high percent is either a result of cope and casual idea that getting surgery/hormone therapy = their goal = therefore trannies must be happy now.

I don’t doubt that this is what makes them happier but they forgot to notice that if they were truly happy, no one would be angry about the pronouns etc. This is also only about the physical changes (well, and also name change, etc.) but how do one measure the feelings? These people have serious mental problems. Their issues with body image and how one is perceived is only one side of it. Suppose someone will have a surgery, get new documents, start to “officially” live with a new identity. Troons say this is what the need to feel better but it doesn’t take away their internal problems, their trauma accumulated in life, depression, etc. Not to add dangers associated with surgery, risky habits of various troons and so on.

I can believe that for example with proper care a suicidal teenager can get a happy and meaningful life but if said teenager is also trans, the chances are much lower IMO.

In adulthood they get to have whatever they feel like needing, they can fully wreck their own life or try to restore it to a better state (if they can). Surgery is something that rather complicated the way back, as certain detransitioners show.

[–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not only that though but i wouldn't doubt they're happy because it's feeding their delusions still.This is the equivalent of someone making a clone of a woman i love and telling me this is just like the real thing.There's a reason that trans women demand that cis man date them because"I have a vagina now,so i'm a woman."The fact that they truly believe the surgical vagina is the exact same as a biological vagina should tell you that this isn't the cure.

[–]OppossumScreech 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Also they never mention how long they stay happy afterwards

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They take antidepressants in addition to those hormonal replacement pills and painkillers.

[–]loubag1997 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah it’s definitely true… in the same way it’s true that 97% of North Koreans LOVE their dear wonderful leader Kim Jung-Un, based on statistical data provided by the North Korean Government.

The other 3% couldn’t be reached for comment...

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's definitely part of it.

Anyone who has had SRS will need life long medical care and reliable specialist emergency care.

They can't risk upsetting their doctors or giving any hint they might not be tru-trans because it might be the death of them.

[–]IkeConn 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course they are.

[–]detaramespez raped me 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Uh-huh. Believable.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'd like to see the methodology on that statistic. Keeping in mind that not every troon was included. Presumably, all of the troons in study have lived fucked up lives long before they mutilated themselves, so getting mutilated had no material impact on their already miserable lives. They think they’re happy because they think that their misery is normal.

Maybe some of the troons in the study were porn actors. They’re just cumbrains, so they can be happy just by felling a bisexual dude's arse like an eclair in front of a camera.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I mean it's impossible to truly scientifically nail down such a thing as happiness anyway. People can tell you they are happy and that's about all you can listen to. Maybe they are telling the truth, maybe they are lying, can't be determined scientifically.

It's like the murder statistics. It's true trans people are far more likely to be murdered than normal people in the same way that it's true prostitutes are far more likely to be murdered than normal people. Trans people are far more likely to be prostitutes. Getting capped while sucking off some drunk ass high ass cholo behind the dumpster because he finds out you've got a penis is very much a part of the no shit Sherlock school of life. But look at the details behind the murder statistics and it's either this kind of scenario or them capping themselves. Is the statement true that they are more likely to be victims of murder? Technically yes. Is that the trans person's fault? Is it the bear's fault that the camper gets attacked for leaving food out in the open in their tent? I guess so. That bear should not have chosen a life of crime.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Happiness is a fleeting emotion. One day you’re happy. The after, you’re sad. And the day after that, you’re happy again. The happiest person in the world is not happy all the time. The saddest person in the world is happy sometimes.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Happiness is nice but the pursuit of happiness to all ends is a flawed ideology. You'll destroy yourself if you are never happy. But if you value happiness to the expense of all else you'll also destroy yourself. I think learning to be content with yourself and your surroundings is more conductive to true "happiness" than all else. Desire is good to pursue to some extent but if it's pursuit becomes the whole of your being you'll never find yourself satisfied.

Unless you can learn to find joy in the worst circumstances, then you will know nothing but sorrow in the best circumstances.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

psychiatry is not hard science. it's political, and when an agenda needs pushing, you can expect to see studies with flawed methodologies and biased funding popping up everywhere to try and seal the idea in scientific authority.

there's gotta be ten times as many studies "showing" a link between depression and a chemical imbalance in the brain, but not one has ever proven it, and yet that doesn't stop everyone from assuming it's true.

it's simply financially expedient to gish gallop over the need for hard proof. what could the consequences even be? the people who push this stuff can claim total innocence and point to all the science, the media support, the parental consent, and get off scot free and still rich.