all 49 comments

[–]LyingSpirit472 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, no it isn't.

Asking "what is a female brain" is a worse question because it plays right into "I think, therefore I am" even more than anything else. The answer to "What is a female brain" a snart would give is "My brain. My brain is a female brain", so it's worthless to ask.

[–]LtGreenCo 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed and there's nothing wrong with the original question. "What is a woman" is nice and succinct, and has a proven track-record at making TRA's short-circuit on the spot. There's no answer to that question that's logically consistent with their ideology. The BEST they've come up with is an incoherent lexically illegal definition.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. Again, people even asking the question have to realize that the question is trying to ask a "you're caught, redhanded, you have to admit you're not a woman" question to people who quite literally view transgenderism as their religion.

As such, people also have to realize that the response you will get to these questions will be the same as if you asked a religious person about something wrong in the Bible- not even something that's best described as mythology, but even something that has been conclusively proven false in the Bible like, for example, "The Bible says Pi equals EXACTLY 3." In that instance, the religious believer will clutch to "the Lord works in mysterious ways", or "well, it's obvious this is true because the Bible said it, maybe your claim Pi= 3.14... is a falsehood Satan made up to discredit God", or "well, I know it's true so it's true"...anything they can think of to make them sleep at night knowing they're right to believe their religion will happen.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Q: What is a female brain?
A: The brain inside the skull of a biological female.

Whether or not a “female brain” or “male brain” exists, there is no mechanism by which they could get mixed up as the brain is just another part of the body and not some magical box - no matter how much you might feel that you are the little man inside looking out on the world.

As for any other concoction to explain mismatches in “gender identity” they all degenerate into magic man done it, because they all match the definition of a soul, and if we are going to allow that to dictate public policy and legal discussions/decisions then it becomes a little hypocritical to ignore all the other beliefs that posit a soul, and in addition to that it actually makes contraception a horror show - all those millions of sentient souls being callously destroyed.

It’s not just nonsense, it is what Jeremy Bentham would have described as “nonsense on stilts”, as for it to be true would upend our entire understanding of the world.

[–]jacques1102[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

This is what i find odd about this whole ideology.Atheists(not all but mostly left wing ones.)who would find those that feel as though there is a soul because of how a person "feels" would find you delusional.Yet, for some strange reason there are some that choose to believe a transgender person is actually someone trapped inside the wrong body and it's some how not a mental illness.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Tell me about it. I’m a left-wing atheist and I’ve watched lots of my atheist friends fall completely for this shit, and the fervour with which they defend their new belief is every bit as zealous as the creationists and Westboro Baptists that they used to laugh at.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s an interesting process. I knew two people in real life, they weren’t atheists from the start but I’d say they were kind of liberal Christians/capable of some Christian-like belief but maybe not caring much about religion and most people’s attitudes to it. They became atheists (although one said as well she had some sort of “her own religion”, never elaborating on it) but the more atheist these two became, the more zealous they were about queer stuff. Not a surprise since one (with “her own religion”) was trans FTM and the other, also female, became NB later. While the NB one was much more aggressive in a way of being anti-Christian, I wondered why they’re capable of supporting so much irrational things as the trans stuff, if they’re against religion (or at least, the mainstream representation of that). The orientation & gender stuff is their new religion, I guess, so they have to defend it...

[–]bopomofodojo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've long thought about that transition of the online New Atheist community and how it basically split around 2013 into the Alt-Right flavour and the Alt-Left (a.k.a. TRA/hyperprogressive) wings. Both of which now dominate politics.

[–]ClassroomPast6178Problematising the things you love. 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The split wasn’t really Alt-Left / Alt-Right, it was Feminist / Not Feminist.

People like Rebecca Watson, PZ Myers, Matt Dillahunty et al achieved levels of clout way beyond what they should have from making wild claims about sexual harassment, racism and various other isms and phobias at Atheist gatherings and community. People who wouldn’t play ball and were unapologetic about it, like Dawkins, were denounced.

The feminist faction seemed to adopt the transgender ideology without questioning it at all, which is hilarious for a bunch of self-proclaimed sceptics.

[–]LtGreenCo 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I remember when woke ideology first appeared on my radar. It wasn't called "woke" then; I don't think "SJW" was even a thing yet either. It was simply Feminism, or I guess "Intersectional Feminism". It started with Occupy Wall Street -- that movement got totally overtaken by feminists. I didn't think anything of it at the time because OWS protesters were annoying as shit and I didn't care what happened to them.

But then one day Feminism/Social Justice almost overnight completely hijacked the skeptic/atheism communities. And as a skeptic and atheist myself it blew me away - I couldn't understand how anyone claiming to be on the side of science, objectivism and reason could fall so deep and so quickly for that insane and illogical pseudoreligious dogma. So I divorced myself from the "Atheist" label and just started calling myself a "Non-Theist" to avoid embarrassment by association. Still, at that point I had no idea what we were in for.

And then the safe-space college kids started making waves. Having nervous breakdowns over "microaggressions" and saying the most insane shit to their professors. Refusing to go to class and demanding their universities create safe spaces and fire staff they didn't like. I laughed it off though, thinking "haha wait until these little turds try and get a job in the real world where there are no safe spaces". But they totally did, and I'm not laughing now.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, it makes some sense. Ultimately, you got to believe in something, and the online New Atheist community was built around believing in nothing for so long that once they got something they could be "right" to believe in, they ended up turning it into religion.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a failure to recognize trans/gender ideology as a religion. Traditional religions revolve around worship of a deity/deities or some kind of spirituality where the self is set into a greater spiritual or nature based realm or energy etc. Trans ideology is worship of the self and places maximum importance on the random dumb thoughts inside their heads. Some of it is sort of like an inner realm where they create various alternative realities.

A way to think about it is like drawing a dotted line around your brain. A traditional religious view worships everything outside the dotted line and recognizes the insignificance of the individual but they still tend to make up weird rules to describe things which can't be understood. The gender religion inverts that and views everything outside the dotted line as insignificant at the expense of the individual.

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The reason it's possible is everyone is female at conception. Chromosomes do little more than determine hormones (transition doesn't work because it can't undo previous hormones' effects). Some people do not respond to certain hormones, and in that case someone with Y chromosomes will be born female, although won't ever enter puberty. There is also a problem called PCOS causing women to produce a bunch of T.

There are varying degrees of these disorders, so it's possible, albeit very unlikely, for it to only affect a brain function that adapts to sexual dimorphism. Most of them have autism and other conditions where the sexes are more similar to each other. This is also true of people with intersex disorders.

This is an awful fate to be born with. Anyone who claims to like it (most of them) is either delusional or lying.

[–]jumba_jukiba 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Aren't you just projecting on other people? Isn't it possible that any bad feelings are from an undiagnosed medical condition and not the gender dysphoria itself?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yes. But it is strange how people who are actually distressed by their bodies (the minority anymore) have many psychological symptoms more typical of the opposite sex. By that I don't mean personality or feelings, I mean things like syptoms of other mental disorders.

[–]jumba_jukiba 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Aren't you really just playing into big-pharma's hand by assuming mental disorders are something entirely separate from the rest of the body? Won't the transgender phenomenon just get amplified by a refusal to treat physical disorders and mental disorders jointly?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They're mostly separate. That's why it's a mental illness. They don't look different, they act different, and usually suffer distress.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wouldn't I entirely reject your insistence that mental and physical disorders are seperate given my recent medical discovery for the cure to CFS and/or schizotypal behavior?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're obviously linked. But quite loosely, especially at first glance.

[–]alladd 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah the goalpost moving is non-stop. If you show them studies that disprove the gendered brain stuff they'll just reorient to some unprovable, immeasurable metaphysical claim about "inner essence" that sounds like religion or spirituality but they expect to be treated as scientifically valid.

You could categorically refute any claims they have on a scientific basis. It doesn't matter. Narcissists gonna narcissist and continue to insist that the rules only apply to everyone else.

[–]clownworlddropout 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, a female brain is a woman's brain.

The way to combat the myth of the "trans brain" is to point out that we've known for decades that there are measurable differences between heterosexual and homosexual brains and these so-called "trans" brains show us nothing new, they're just gay.

"Trans" doesn't exist, it's a man-made and lucrative "treatment" for a mental illness, nothing more.

[–]Musky 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Between a group of guys and a group of women talking, I generally prefer being the odd man out with the women, although I wouldn't say I have a "female brain," since I also can find farts funny.

Btw, that is my Gold Standard Tranny test, women just don't appreciate a hilarious fart. We can determine gender once and for all finally.

But regardless of any of that, it doesn't change the fact I am a guy. I don't get a choice there, although I'm super happy I'm a dude.

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't see that test working correctly. You may be right, but it's undoubtedly because of how women are raised to be the fairer sex.

[–]Musky 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't think so, I think it's genetic. I think a lot more of our behavior is genetic than we previously allowed for. My niece was raised without her father, still acts like him regardless, wasn't raised with gender roles, still likes girl stuff.

I also think it's interesting that three of us with rather unusual genetics have congregated on this cozy site. Almost like there's a behavioral component to it that lands us here. Cc: u/Hongkongphooey

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Genetics certainly do affect behavior. But most gender stereotypes are learned, and even what is an innate trend is strengthened by the resulting stereotype.

A child does not have to be raised by their parents to be affected by stereotypes. Society teaches them, and girls especially end up conforming to them because female social circles cast out anyone who's different (because they're told they're the fairer sex, and they want to keep that reputation). Moreover, "gender neutral" parents usually incorporate more stereotypes than they think. Even if they don't pressure their kids toward them, they usually still assume their kids are stereotypical and expose them more to those things, though not consciously. It's so deeply ingrained into us that it's very difficult to rid ourselves of it.

[–]Musky 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But most gender stereotypes are learned

That's modern thinking, and I have come to believe that is mostly wrong. Again with my niece, that girl has spent a considerable amount of time sparring with me. She should know how to fight, but it devolves into a girly slapfest when she's upset. There's core programming she's falling back on, contrary to what she was taught.

A child does not have to be raised by their parents to be affected by stereotypes

Fair point.

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean...a lot of people devolve into a "girly slapfight" when they're upset. But the costs for men being seen like that are absolutely damning.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Isn't there really an entire lack of definition or rationale to claim that women are more fair?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's the stereotype and a goal for social benefits. Children are raised in accordance with stereotypes, whether they respond to all of them or not.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Woah woah hold up there transphobe, since when did women have brains?

I'm sorry I'm going to need your patriarchy membership card.

[–]FuckYourMom 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No, not at all. We have grown up next to each other for thousands of years. Women are not complicated, like men are not complicated. And men are not women.

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Actually they're both complicated. Women are supposedly complicated because they sometimes say the opposite of what they're feeling. But men usually don't even express it at all.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Aren't you just now making unsubstantiated broad claims about both genders?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, just showing the hypocrisy of the stereotypes.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

„What is a female brain?” is a worse question in my opinion too, I can only see it being used in brain discussion but not as alternative to “what is a woman?”.

Well, even though the brain gender theory is presented by many as some support for the trans thing, it’s not surprising there are also trans people who might be against it. Some might think it’s not progressive enough, other have little enough reason to left to suspect it’s not what it seems.

[–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But doesn't it run into what i said in my last sentence where if the brain scans don't show any support for trans people then what room do they have to promote the belief that they're truly women trapped inside men's bodies?It was always the biggest problem with the entire concept of transgenderism.There’s no rational way to explain feeling any gender other than the sex you were born.That's why it surprised me to see some be against it.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know that the brain scans don’t match this theory but I assume trans people would come up with something “b-but brain scans don’t show all that there is to brain!” or “science is made by white cis men” all over (I mean in a case for those who would accept brain theory as argument, even though it’s faulty). Even though they play with science, using whatever is a suspicion or not, to back their own opinions, a lot of what they promote isnKt actually about science but about feelings. Even though process of feelings is reflected in some way in our neurological system (but of course I won’t elaborate how, I’m not a scientist), feelings are expressed in some varied ways sometimes, due to culture, and it looks like they’re hard to grasp after all. I don’t mean not being able to perceive how someone feels like according to us, I mean it’s hard to fully know why someone feels that way. Because for example, some people might say “this person is angry because they feel being trans is a special identity and those not accepting it are evil far-right bigots, they want to be special or have victim mentality” and the trans person would mention different reasons for being angry.

You got it at the end I think, what I wrote above. It’s not about rationality, it’s about feelings. Even it’s hard to stick to definitions because there will be always someone who understands definition in a different way. I don’t remember where but perhaps on SaidIt I came across a person saying that nowadays the trans label is being applied to everyone who doesn’t fit gender stereotypes in the slightest way. Some portion of woke people will regard that as aspect of trans or any other “opposing” of gender binary. That’s why it’s actually hard to argue with them, they’re more preoccupied with their feelings than facts and use labels and terms that can have infinite possible definitions.

I agree that there is no way to say how “having a gender” feels like. Any woman or man doesn’t go and think “wow, I feel so masculine/feminine today/always”. That’s just nonsense. Trans people, aside from their psychological problems, perceive gender/sex as aesthetic or way of behavior or personality.

[–]iamonlyoneman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No. Make them say men are women, don't cede the word.

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

"Gendered brains" are only supported by some very shady evidence. I don't know that they are a thing beyond hormonal effects, especially seeing that pre-pubescent children have nearly identical brains. Though if that is the case it is strange how men and women tend to have different symptoms of mental disorders, and people with gender dysphoria have symptoms typical of the opposite sex.

That is irrelevant though, because my suspicion is regardless of whatever else is affected, people's minds do develop to adapt well to the body of their sex. If this goes wrong it will of course cause distress. But you will never get TRA-controlled big pharma to admit this. It makes it a mental illness, and also makes it about physical makeup rather than personalities and stereotypes. That would "invalidate" the vast majority of the current trans agenda. Anyone with a real problem would absolutely insist it's an illness. If someone is like "I loooooove being trans UwU!" you know it's bullshit.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Isn't gender dysphoria just a medical rationale for the freedom to consume medical substances and change gender at will?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don't see that should be a problem in a free country, but no one would want to do that unless there's something wrong with them. Unless they're unsuspecting children or snowflakes who've been duped by groomers and TRAs, which is why we do have to be extremely careful about where this desire is coming from.

[–]jumba_jukiba 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Isn't lack of knowledge pretty much just a guaranteed in an imperfect, free world? Couldn't we assume that there are many approaches to HRT that really aren't as imposing as you make them out to be?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You have to be careful about it because of all this TRA nonsense grooming people who are really just socially awkward into thinking they're a different gender and sometimes trying to transition. Then they get real dysphoria and destransition, and then a lot of women (which is most of them) go blame the trans agenda on men and become TERFs.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Wouldn't you have to track everyone's medical decisions if you hoped to prevent gender dysphoria false-positives?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Their motivations need to be thoroughly checked. Are they complaining all about their biological makeup, or are they just struggling with gender stereotypes and feelings?

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In a free world, wouldn't your proposal to track medical decisions result in total surveillance? Couldn't I just order HRT pills anonymously in a free world?

[–]VulptexMy pronouns are the/matrix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If they wanted to, yes, they could order them on a whim. But that would be a foolish decision on their part.

[–]jumba_jukiba 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't it really not much of our business at all what others freely choose to put in their own bodies?

[–]filbs111 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

An oxymoron.