If transgenders are really people trapped inside the wrong sex's body, why is it not considered a birth defect?

submitted by jacques1102 from self.TumblrInAction

I never once have seen anyone argue that this is a birth defect like Chiari Malformations, or Encephaloceles.If they really have the wrong brain then by definition it should be label as such.However, i have seen TRAs argue that it's transphobic to even suggest it to be a birth defect.If it's not that then what exactly should it be called then since calling it a mental illness is also transphobic?

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[–]brimshaeBased Woodchipper Merchant 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

It's a mental illness and, as you've put it, potentially a birth defect.

Just because someone calls a dog's tail a leg doesn't mean that it is a leg. See also: former Pizza Hut buildings.

[–]DorkfishieThe only one who isn't transphobic 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And then I walked up to the bank and said, "hey, can I order a pizza?" Insert laugh track here

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Larry Feinberg?

[–]DorkfishieThe only one who isn't transphobic 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, I made it up.

[–]LtGreenCo 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If gender is a social construct then trannies are born identifying with a social construct, which makes no sense. If gender isn't a social construct then trannies are born identifying as having a biological sense for which they have no frame of reference, which also makes no sense.

So I don't think it's a birth defect, and I don't think it's a brain-body mismatch. I think it's more akin to a personality disorder.

[–]MikeSopes 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is exactly it -- the "male brain in a female body"/vice versa was cooked up as a way to explain the mental illness in a more socially acceptable way that made them seem like victims. But it doesn't work because there's no such thing as a "male brain". Thinking more like a stereotypical man or feeling that you're in a body that doesn't match your brain is based on stereotypes from the days when men were expected to be one thing and women were expected to be the opposite. Claiming that there's such thing as a "male brain" and that a biological female can have one just perpetuates those antiquated stereotypes and encourages healthy people who exhibit characteristics stereotypical to the opposite sex to start thinking about their bodies in unhealthy ways.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

For a time many of them were arguing it was a "physiological condition not a psychological condition". The only reason they did this is because they were trying to find a reason for insurance to cover medical costs. After gender identity disorder was removed from the DSM it became "not a psychological condition" so insurance companies were like "ok well I guess there's no reason to pay for treatments then."

If they really have the wrong brain then by definition it should be label as such.

Their primary argument is exactly the opposite of this. They say that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the brain but the body is wrong.

Lately though, it's changed a bit and they now insist that body parts are not sexed and they can have a "female penis" or other nonsense.

[–]jacques1102[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The second part never made sense to me because it implies that our brains are never wrong.Like i said with people who have schizophrenia, no one argues that theirs brains are correct and their hallucinations are real.Hell there are moments where my brain tricks me and makes me believe i forgot to lock my door at night despite the fact that i did.So what makes these people right?

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the problem with the affirming mindset getting taken to the extreme. When you are a psychologist or a psychiatrist a lot of your job will involve "affirming" the patient in some way, because it's not very productive to simply tell someone "you're insane, here's some drugs and an asylum recommendation, stop being insane

Now there is a time and a place for that response, on society as a whole, but not in the pysch office, since you want to help the person talk through their own problems so you can learn more about what makes them tick and find ways to help them deal with it that don't cause them more problems or suffering.

This is the basic mindset behind the affirmation strategy. It's simply taken too far and preached like gospel by Twitter types. If my friend or a family member told me they think they are trans, I wouldn't lie to them and say they are absolutely what they think they are, but I wouldn't tell them off for being wrong either. There's some underlying problem in their life that is making them think that. It might be a mental health condition. It might be some silly hangup about how they dress. Childhood trauma about not being manly enough, or womanly enough, some strong desire to hold onto certain social norms where no need is present. Etc. They aren't right about being born in the wrong body, but they feel that way for some reason. And it's important to get down to the core issue of why. Rather than just be like ok hormones and surgery.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes there is literally no physiological metric for determining this. It's entirely self determined. The very concept of gender has no real material basis. Sex does and most of the gender concepts are derived directly from that. I feel like xyz is just not useful. We don't give out chemo to people who feel like they have cancer.

I'd propose a very unethical double blind study where we just give placebo hormones and placebo surgeries to trans people and see what happens. Just put them under with anesthesia do nothing then pretend like the surgery was a huge success and gaslight them if they say anything is off. I suspect they'll end up just believing it anyway since I think a lot of this is driven by social contagion and the power of suggestion. Yes we converted your male penis into a female penis. See your underwear is pink now.

[–]BISH 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

It's not identifiable at birth. Infact, you can't identify it until the kindergarten teacher declares it.

I have a hormone-imbalance/spirit-possession theory.

Gender is a bedrock human characteristic. It takes a serious personal change to rearrange your entire life.

Or, you absolutely have to get out of your high security prison to find some strange.

[–]clownworlddropout 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not biological in any way, the brain thing is a persistent myth like "we only use 10% of our brain" or "the soul weighs 21 grams."

All studies that show brain differences are consistent with the differences between heterosexual and homosexual people, meaning the trannies in these studies were just gay.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because there's no physical marker or indicator for trans identification later in life. If there were we'd not really be having much debate over the issue and we'd probably have worked out as a society what to do about it similar to how we worked out how to deal with intersex conditions.

Logically it is a mental health condition. Beyond that, we don't really understand much. I think there are perhaps five different complexes that result in trans ideation. There may actually be more. It's hard to say. Blanchild did good research on some of this. But he only identified two categories. I think there are more.

TRA don't like it when you say that being trans is due to a mental condition because it automatically makes their arguments fairly weak if you can simply write them off as insane. While I believe you can, that is a rather boring argument, so I will assume good faith and sanity on the part of the person I'm having a discussion with.

There is some subset of reasonably sane trans people I can get along with well enough, who seem to understand that they aren't actually the opposite sex. Don't care if they pass or not. And just do it because they want to. Don't try to impose themselves in places where they aren't welcome. And don't go around trying to convert kids. Naturally these people are also quite boring and so they don't get much attention.

Calling anything xyz phobic is simply a shitty debate tactic used to derail a discussion. The best way to deal with it is to either ask why, and let the person get frustrated when they can't explain it without tautologies or emotional appeals, or to simply accept the label as if it doesn't bother you the tactic fails miserably.

As such if people call me a racist, a Nazi , a transphobe, homophobe , whatever, alright. I'm a communist conservative ultranationalist Christisn athiest anarcho-monarchist racist universalist homophobic faggot. Now let's talk about how it's physically impossible for anyone who has XY chromosomes to have babies. Please present your counter argument to this fact so we can discuss it.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They do.

I've seen a lot of young trans kids saying "Mommy says I'm a girl but I was born with a birth defect so when I'm older she's going to get it surgically removed".

This isn't the hot take you think it is.

[–]hfxB0oyADon't piss on my head & tell me it's raining. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Abort! Abort!

[–]alladd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd call it a pathological personality disorder akin to a form of trauma adaptation. They are sublimating their full selves into a diminished identity based on a sexual fetish because jerking off is the only time they're happy.

People become singularly, instinctively focused on sex when they're horny. A trans person tries to stretch that sense of singlemindedness into an entire personality so they never have to leave that space. They obliterate themselves and try to replace their body with another sexual object so they can permanently detach from reality and observe it from the outside, like watching porn. That's why "validation" (lying) is so crucial to their identity. Being trans is one long extended edging session meant to stave off the inevitable return to self-awareness.