all 23 comments

[–]CaelianPost No Toasties[M] [score hidden] stickied comment (1 child)

Also check out Launching the Westminster Declaration, which made room for the FNDP.

[–]InumaGaming Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)



I just made a post about people need to do more offline than on and begin to build up to something...

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

There is no non-violent way to take power from the people who have power and don't want to give it up.

Why? Because any change at the micro level that holds any promise whatsoever of success will be met by violence from those in power. At which point you submit, and they keep their power, or you fight, meeting violence with violence.

[–]3andfro 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seems a good place to insert this famous quote:

“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them, and these will continue till they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress.” ― Frederick Douglass

[–]Maniak🥃😾 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And they're making sure to frame any attempt at any kind of resistance as some criminal level of violence. From words on Twitter to anti-war protests to slave revolts such as in Gaza.

Keep people either too scared to even think about it, or sufficiently brainwashed so that they will be the ones fighting those who dare to dissent. Which can only lead to way more violent 'outbursts' if and when shit finally hits the fan.

[–]EddieC[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are you saying you agree with u/Kingsmeg:

There is no non-violent way to take power from the people who have power...

meaning: "Violence is the only solution..."?

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Anyone who's on the fence about this, or asking questions, here's a question for you: Who told you that 'non-violence' was the only acceptable way to effect change? And did they tell you that actually works?

I guess that's 2 questions.

[–]TemporarilyDeceased 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

direct citizen participation over corporate influence

Both of these roads lead to the same destination. Government uses their influence to peddle favors with corporations to get the result they want. We have seen over the last 3 years how the government peddles influence to the masses to get support for the unthinkable and irrational.

cooperative models could supplant private entities

Most people don't want to do this, nor do they feel qualified to do so. What would keep the same people in charge of private entities from taking control under a cooperative framework?

open community walls in lieu of corporate media

Like the first point, government uses its influence over corporate media to convince people that alternative media is dangerous and in need of regulation or censorship.

The key problems are: 1. The politicians in office are amoral. They seek only that which give them and their friends more power and money. 2. The people are powerless to stop even the most obvious cases of law-breaking by these politicians.

Point #1 must be handled before #2 can be addressed.

[–]sdl5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is the very self-built wall of denial the entire idealist set repeatedly and willfully refuses to see- a wall spiked with toxins and numbing pablum, designed to cause infighting/division and a sense of DOING SOMETHING means creating change.

I am so thoroughly blackpilled by the public and every other group since late 2015 I see the idealists live on far more than just the ditzy left, or the nostalgic Boomer center right- and they allllll constantly run obstruction when this very and entirely critical fact and first step is stated.

Whether that involves just ignoring it or mocking the need or hysterical denial or accusations of various ugly things, the refusal to acknowledge this hard and extremely challenging truth is very common.

[–]Chipit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You didn't address power-hungry sociopaths. If there's one thing that really makes these people seethe it's their perceived lessers standing up to and mocking them.

Then there's the fact that the Left had seen construction workers come out for Nixon against students in the early ’70s, and from then on, they saw workers as nothing more than obstructions on the heroic path of the associate professor toward enlightenment.

[–]3andfro 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sociopaths are typically the personalities that seek power, within organizations and governments: for recognition, personal gain, or the power itself. Healthier egos don't desire power beyond their own agency to structure their lives as they wish. Idealism doesn't carry people far when they encounter the less-than-idealistic realities of the way the world works (and doesn't).

[–]unagisongsBurn down Reddit! 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

How do we undo the Gordian Knot that is choking us?

That's simple. Eliminate personal debt. ~70% of Americans are in serious personal debt. ~75% of personal bankruptcy result to medical debt. That isn't an accident. The oligarchy has turned country into debt trap. It's nearly impossible not to get chained to job in this country through these debt traps no matter how clever. Easy credit, education, and healthcare will ensnare just about anyone that isn't in the oligarchy. Outlaw "easy credit". Universalize public secondary education and I'm not just talking about fancy degrees. Pass medicare for all. Debt slavery is how the oligarchy stays in power. You want people to tear loose and fuck up the oligarchy. Get them out of debt!

[–]EddieC[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

~70% of Americans are in serious personal debt. ~75% of personal bankruptcy result to medical debt. That isn't an accident. The oligarchy has turned country into debt trap.


Not just Americans' personal debt, but also America's national debt as I put here that as part of a larger syndicate:

The primary roles of each succeeding Government are to:

  • Acknowledge AND increase debt obligations imposed upon the people without democratic input or oversight
  • Uphold the claims of powerful private entities to extract tribute from society in perpetuity

This has the effect of concentrating ever more wealth and power in the hands of the Few at the expense of the Many i.e. perpetuating the Hierarchy / Oligarchy


Debt slavery is how the oligarchy stays in power. You want people to tear loose and fuck up the oligarchy. Get them out of debt!


Another approach: Present the case that the debts - personal and national - were the result of Fraud
- be they Actual or Constructive Fraud
Everyone willing to help build the case(s), could collaborate through the proposed Reckoning Walls

[–]rundown9 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The entire global economy is based on the buying and selling of debt, and usurious compounding interest on that debt.

Interesting to take a closer look at the nations forgiving debt to poorer countries, they just happen to be the same ones that are the arch enemies of nato today, hmmm.

NTM Islam as a religion, which forbids usury all together.

[–]therazorx👹🧹🥇 The road to truth is often messy. 👹📜🕵️🎖️ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

NTM Islam as a religion, which forbids usury all together.

Not only does it forbid usury (and not as in the definition of "high interest" but in terms of ALL interest, you lend someone 100$, 5 years later they still owe you 100$, not even 100.01$ is allowed), but Islamic banking/investment is different too in that it's not "insured" and there are no "bail outs". Your money gets invested (if you choose to, you can also deposit your money in accounts that don't get invested), and if the investments go south, you lose your money, if the investments go north, you get extra money.

Furthermore, there's heavy restrictions on what investments can be made into if they go against the faith, meaning yes banks don't invest in Alcohol or Casinos for example, but they also won't invest in industries creating "Fassad fel Ard" (Corruption in the land) so they probably wouldn't invest in shit like Blackrock.

Additionally, it bans 'engaging in transactions lacking "'material finality'. All transactions must be "directly linked to a real underlying economic transaction", which excludes "options and most other derivatives"' and bans high risk shit like options, futures, derivatives, forwards, and speculation, short selling, margin trading, day trading...etc..

Although to be fair, that form is rarely actually practiced and there's a lot of argument between scholars on what constitutes what in terms of interest and all that.

cc /u/penelopepnortney

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Good info, thanks!

[–]therazorx👹🧹🥇 The road to truth is often messy. 👹📜🕵️🎖️ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

np, figured you'd be interested.

It's curious how little is discussed about it tbh, because under the model shit like the 2008 crash wouldn't happen. Like yeah, "some" people wouldn't be as filthy rich, but there wouldn't be a situation where those folks gambling leads to the decimation of the entire global economy.

Like shit, the world doesn't have to adopt the entire islamic banking model, but at least consider some of it's positives, y'know?

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Couldn't agree more, and we're headed for a worse crisis than 2008 according to many analysts. Casino capitalism at its finest.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those are great points.

[–]EddieC[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing constructive thoughts & suggestions.
I continued writing after posing the question that you answered to, adding my own proposal. Please check them out.
I will look into your suggestions to see how they can be incorporated and if not, the issue raised is addressed.

[–]Tom_BombadilNational status = freedom 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How do we undo the Gordian Knot that is choking us?

Become a national but not a citizen.

Reclaim your natural Rights.

[–]EddieC[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing.
I continued writing after posing the question that you answered to, adding my own proposal, to address all three: political, economic and media power. Please check it out.