all 11 comments

[–]EVERYBODYPANIC 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Have been a big proponent of Unschooling for decades. Glad to find someone else at all interested in the concept. Intrigued at even a consideration of non-education. For example, in India, the have the Mahabharata, a very ancient epic poem. It is the longest poem in the world and takes DAYS to recite the whole poem. At festivals, poets recite it from memory, and it is reported that these performers always are untutored illiterates. Seems that people who are able to read cannot memorize at all as well as their unregimented brethren. Unschooling is a good half-way measure.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wouldn't you say that the untutored illiterate who recites the poem was unschooled? I don't see the distinction between unschooling and what you are calling "non-education". Just because the illiterate chose not to learn how to read doesn't mean he didn't educate himself in all sorts of other things he chose to become educated in i.e. the recital of lengthy poetry.

Much of Aaron's conception of unschooling revolved around the personal tutor or mentor, a one on one relationship of learning rather than the traditional one on 30 schoolroom scenario. It's not like anyone can avoid this though the illiterate learnt the poem from somebody.

[–]EVERYBODYPANIC 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good point. The poetic reciters learn many thing, but intentionally avoid learning to read and write. They surely have jobs and raise families. So far as my studies indicate, none of the reciters for thousands of years were literate.

I brought this aside forward to indicate that things we believe about educational needs may not explain it all. Now, what you describe above is homeschooling and tutoring. Gentler versions of regular education. Unschooling really means what it says. Kids learn what seems important to them at the time and in ways which they themselves choose. Unless we 'school their minds to mush', kids love learning everything and if allowed, would come to adults with questions. Unschooling does include adult input as requested. Reading, writing, math and world studies would be gobbled up by a mind filled with wonder.

[–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I think we can make environments more optimized for learning and contribution than what I grew up with at least, but hopefully it's improved. I like the way I learn in video games, I know that sounds silly, but it feels very natural and unforced, and it's completely at my own pace and in my own way. It doesn't feel stressful or forced.

I feel a little skeptical of stuff attacking the educational institution though, he seems hostile and "liberation" is a bit subversive. Not a fan of being encouraged to be subversive, just fix or replace stuff if it needs fixing or replacing.

eta: I was censored here on SaidIt without explanation

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yeah but what if the institution itself is unnecessary OR even harmful? (intentionally so according to swartz) You should definitely read the essay. It can be found in the essay compilation book "the boy who could change the world". You can easily get it off or libgen.

[–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

sorry but you're being a pusher. no thanks. there's nothing special about anyone else's brain or essay or whatever, I have one of my own. regret engaging in this convo.

eta: I was censored here on SaidIt without explanation

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

what sub are you on dickhead

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'd love to have a discussion about institutionalized education here in this thread.

this is what I replied for, in the OP.

the fact that this is the route you took doesn't speak well of your genuine desire for conversation here, I only feel my initial discomfort was more warranted.

eta: I was censored here on SaidIt without explanation

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"what if the institution itself is unnecessary OR even harmful?"

swarts' argument is that educational institutions were put into place for the express purpose of instilling subservience into the intellectual types in order to make them better workers. The educational institution is intended to increase profits and power of the bourgeoisie (who created the institution) if you'll excuse the Marxist terminology. Because it's aims aren't to educate but rather to instill subservience it will never further the cause of education (it may to some extent but to the detriment of the inherent pragmatism of the will to knowledge i.e. to effect the world and improve it for the thinker, think freedom here) So the question of whether it could be harmful is a direct point against your skepticism and perceived hostility, for if it is the case that it is fundamentally aimed at the wrong thing (not explicitly so, we are told that it is for education and the improvement of our own and our collective well being; a subversion on their part no less) then revolution not reform would necessarily need to be in order. We would need to subvert the subverter to return education to the goal of education and not subservience.

BTW you are the one derailing the discussion because I don't follow your rules for what a good discussion is to a tee. If you find it fruitless because I don't follow your precious Pyramid Practice just don't respond. No need to rage pedantically. You are far from warranted.

[–]comments 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

buzz off dude. people are allowed to say "no" to you and it doesn't mean they did something wrong. you're not being respectful here. you didn't engage with what I said and just pushed me to read the essay I didn't want to read. I didn't like it and I said so. Lots of people treat others this way and I don't like it then either. Good day.

eta: I was censored here on SaidIt without explanation

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So now I have engaged and explained the essay rather than recommended you read it and your ego is to brushed for you to return to your original intent to have a discussion?