all 19 comments

[–]go1dfish 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Just going from your quotes here, I wouldn't say that this is a central tenet of Marxism.

It sounds like what we would today call an accelerationist view, the idea that supporting these policies (that are not inherently Marxist) will help hasten their desired revolution.

[–]useless_aether 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yes, the globalists at the united nations and the vatican are communists. or worse.

catholic means universal. the papacy is the (roman) empire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_(term)

the rothschilds, court jews of the vatican, sponsored marx. looks like they were also relatives.

http://archives.balliol.ox.ac.uk/Modern%20Papers/gelles/2018RothschildMarx.pdf

https://newspunch.com/karl-marx-employed-rothschilds/

https://justice4poland.com/2018/05/08/karl-marx-was-rothschilds-third-cousin/

bakunin explains:

This may seem strange. What can there be in common between Communism and the large banks? Oh! The Communism of Marx seeks enormous centralization in the state, and where such exists, there must inevitably be a central state bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, which. speculates on the work of the people, will always find a way to prevail ....”

Source: Michael Bakunin, 1871, Personliche Beziehungen zu Marx. In: Gesammelte Werke. Band 3. Berlin 1924. P. 204-216.

[–]Vigte 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, I'm not disagreeing - but what I don't see are technicals... so either I'm dumb on said subject - or I'm just not seeing HOW it accomplishes that.

Communism talks a big game - but that's because it knows about human psychology... like this.

Again, not disagreeing, but could you explain how?

[–]HeyImSancho 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

So Marx said that, and a lot of people say a lot of things; somewhat like the realization of everyone having an asshole. Is it absolute because Marx orated it?

It really seems past, and present, most people don't believe anything unless it's sourced; while at the same time, our 'sources' come from the very tyrants enslaving us. I don't think I'll base anything in my reality on anyone else's notion of what is concrete, abstract, or 'must be'.

[–]Jesus[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It isn't the central tenet of Marism, but Marx did say this, which is enough for us to think about it. wWe hear that freedom of trade is essential to ensuring that goods and services can be distributed to those who need them. But we have seen throughout antiquity that free-trade can be utilized as economic warfare at the detriment of another country, such as with France and Britain. In the 18th century, Adam Smith warned against the "interested sophistry" of industry, seeking to gain an advantage at the cost of the consumers. Friedrich List saw Adam Smith's views on free trade as disingenuous, believing that Smith advocated for freer trade so that British industry could lock out underdeveloped foreign competition. It is interesting that private money lenders and private bankers who seeked to buy kings and countries though easy money printing at a time of rearmament or war were all advocates of free trade, whislt those, like Napolean who wished to ban usury and private money lenders from banking, thusly making himself the banker and those he appointed in order to inhibit foreign interests were against free trade, and believed their country should be as self-sufficient as possible.

“The theory of Communism may be summed up in one sentence: Abolish all private property.” — Karl Marx, The Communist Manifesto

Marx is in favor, then, of free trade. He simply wants to abolish all private property, but again, the banker elites can use this system to theri advantage, who could target the lower and middle classes.

So, reading communist literature, and I noticed that none of the theorists (at least that I had read) ever talked about or even mentioned the idea of abolishing free trade, marx was an advocate. What they talked about was abolishing the institution of private property and redistributing wealth.

"Free trade" is generally the system of the dominant state in its greatest supremacy and concomitantly of the beginning of its downfall. In 19th century Britain, according to author David Astle this was the case, and it is happening now with the United States. There is no way that America now can engage in free trade and win, because we’re a high-cost economy and we’re not producing.

Author Michael Hudson states in an interview:

There’s no way in which a change in currency values is going to shift production to the United States when we don’t have any factories to produce manufactures. When you look at the structure of world trade, you realize it has nothing to do with tariffs at this point, and nothing to do with currency values. It’s to do with the fact that Wall Street and the corporate employers have jumped ship, they’ve moved abroad, and they’ve hollowed out the United States. And once it’s hollowed out, the only way you can rebuild it is to have public infrastructure, to have public subsidy just like China’s doing and other countries are doing, public health just like other countries are doing, to cut the costs to employers.

But now that America and especially Trump, but also the Democrats want to privatize everything from healthcare to infrastructure, we’re going to be priced out of world markets whether it’s free trade or not.

Finally, note that "free trade", in our current era of it, anyway, is the ideology of finance capital as it seeks to escape the laws and political institutions that allegedly govern it, neoliberalism is that system, whether labor laws or capital controls. The 19th century free-trade liberals and subsequent neoliberals are the traditional defenders of the status quo, denying that anything can be done to alter the course of events, including intervention by governments. Michael Hudson counters this by arguing that all markets are managed - that there has never been a time when government wasn't involved in formulating economic policy. Indeed, governments must intervene, says Hudson, if those individuals and those nations are to be protected from economic and financial practices that exploit the vulnerable and ignorant. His goal is for a more enlightened populace, academe, and legislature which will lead to an enlightened and rationally managed economy.

So, free trade and free markets go hand-in-hand. Industrialized countries, emgmeder the flow of capital and have an advantage in trade, and therefore surplus investment looks for foreign investment. Industrialized countries then, proselytizing free trade, also preach open markets. This means that foreign countries, especially undeveloped countries, should allow foreign investment. Such investment, it is argued, allows for the development of so-called third world countries which otherwise do not have the means to modernize. But foreign investment also means foreign ownership, and when enterprises are foreign owned, profits from these enterprises go abroad. The advantage industrialized countries have in trade is thus exacerbated by foreign ownership in the disadvantaged countries. And the propensity is, of course, for foreign investors to want to invest in raw materials production. What little advantage raw materials producing nations have is thus usurped. Capital continues to flow away from the disadvantaged nations to the advantaged. Backwards conditions persist in the non-industrialized nations.

Today's neoclassical (or theoclassical) economists have either been quite eager to forget the successes of the United States' early protectionism, or have never learned about it in the first place.

Hudson concludes his book with a summary which should be tattooed on the foreheads of all graduate students in economics: "All economies are planned, and all markets are structured. The key to understanding their dynamics is to ask who is doing the planning and structuring, and in whose interest countries will place decision-making. Will it be in the hands of elected officials with a clear empirical knowledge of reality to guide their national economic laws, or in those of academics serving special interests as they turn theories of international trade, lending and debt into a disinformation system?"

And then, what do we see with Russia after the alleged collapse of Sovietism? Louis "Lepke" Buchalter, up to 700 contract killings; Russian-Jewish "gangster capitalists" Vladimir Gusinsky and Boris Berezovsky buy up industry by the pennies in their "free market" (an economic fad) after scooping up trillions of dollars worth of natural resources for pennies on the dollar, destroying the economy of the country, reducing over a hundred million people to abject poverty, with a crash in the birth rate, mass homelessness, hundreds of thousands of suicides, murders, "disappearances" and premature deaths through malnutrition and alcohol poisoning. Much better.

Any ism, any economic system that seeks profit over merit, will surely degrade the countries people. Depriving them of their needs until they end up landless and homeless. International bankers who wish for this free trade, free market scam sugar coat it in the 'good for all' myth, which just isn't true.

[–]HeyImSancho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Gestating some thoughts here. In the mid 90's I began a career as an electrician. The 90's for me were 2 fold, learning my trade, and learning the industry. In 2002, I earned my Master Contractor Electrician(MCE) license in Austin Texas. That license only needed proof of time letters from employers; no extra requirements. The test was difficult to say the least, only around 4% passing rate first time around.

I passed, and then paid for my license. The cost of the test, was around $80, and the license was for 3 years at a cost of $104 total. There were no other requirements. It made sense as my contracting, my business should be between the client, and myself; no one else.

Yet, fast forward just a couple years, and Texas like many to most states today, the state took over licensing. I could grandfather in; hoora! Right?! Wrong.

The grandfathering is was as follows; State mandated commercial liability insurance, state mandated bonding, and also the report of criminal records. The cost now had 2 options: 1. as an active contractor agreeing to the extra requirements, around a $1000 annually, option 2. I think they called it a restricted master; it meant you could only work as a journeyman electrician, no contracting; the cost was $100 per year.

The irony there, was before the state took over, a journeyman's license was $33 for 3 years in Austin; now with it being a state license, they had to pay $33 per year, but again, to keep my achievement as a Master, I would've been charged $100. Why do you suppose it was this way???? The testing requirements, and standards were actually since lowered, and here's why....

During the 90's, and into the early 2000's conglomerates, many based out of Houston, were going around rolling up trade industries. Monstrous corporations were born. Buying 2 to 10 million dollar companies, with a grand total billion dollar plus corporate head; with other industries in tow. This happened across many building industry businesses; not many people are aware of this.

When looking back, it's got to be one of the greatest scams ever perpetrated in Texas, and any other state that followed suit. To keep my contractors license, I would gone from $104 every 3 years, to well over $4,000 per year. The bastards bought up everything, then were able to lobby like no tomorrow for new licensing regulations making them expensive, while also making the testing easier.

Get it????? They made any idiot who had a little bit of money able to 'play the game', and also by making the testing easier.... The result was easy to experience, lots of new masters, every swinging dick could contract for a short time, and some did make it, but most don't. The large conglomerates at the time paid better than anyone else. So you had people who had smarts, and real knowledge often times go to the conglomerates; as it was easier money than competing with the next half whit who could also contract.

On top of this, and beyond just the tax issues of where, and when not to apply sales tax, and how to do income tax on top, these conglomerates really gave way to other regulatory guillotines. Namely the rise of the Human Resource Departments that are necessary because of the amount of frivolous regulations regarding employees.

My point? Everything I wrote is in regards to industries within the USA being stolen from others within the USA, and keeping that, by doing 2 things, allowing money to dictate who gets to play, and insuring the regulations keep others out.

As to 'free trade' being the mother of all evils, or part of it, okay, but what's the root cause? People who don't give a shit about self development. I'd argue that there's nothing more efficient than people doing for themselves, and their own community. Regulations in any guise aid tryants.

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There are regulations for the very rich and then those for the middle class and poor. Industry, like you've said uses the revolving door of government and bureaucracy to reinforce barriers of entry on everyone else, espeically the common person.

State mandated commercial liability insurance, state mandated bonding, and also the report of criminal records. The cost now had 2 options: 1. as an active contractor agreeing to the extra requirements, around a $1000 annually, option 2. I think they called it a restricted master; it meant you could only work as a journeyman electrician, no contracting; the cost was $100 per year.

The state, a corporation, utilizes people as collateral for debt, that is why we see ever increasing restrictions, taxes, licensures and fees. But the state was not always like this. It has only happened in the past 75 years, where corporate and banking interests melded and became one with state interests. Becuase the state is trillions of dollars in debt, who do you think they use as collateral to pay off the interest on that debt? They use all sorts of schemes directed on us. Before private banking in the U.S. took a strong foothold, when Andrew Jackson and other presidents looked to and did abolish the central banking system scam, they utilized colonial script and other state backed medium of exchanges. These mediums would be appropriated according to the buying, exchange, purchase, and demands of the people. This of course wouldn't allow for rearmament programs and the costly figures of war but it allowed the colonists to succede from British influence and the Bank of England. It allowed very low taxes, because there was no interest to pay back to private money lenders with foreign influence.

200 years ago, Thomas Jefferson stated:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies,"

Jefferson wrote:

" If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around(these banks) will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

"The issuing power of currency shall be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Certainly, the latter never came to fruition and what we have now is a state totally vested to the interests of the power elite. It is all bad, from top to bottom. And it can only get worse. My municipality, when I first moved here, in the 80's, had fairly low taxes, the whole state did. Of course, it would have been considered quite high if we were to historically compare figures but it is no where close to today. The amount of schemes, restrictions, and fees in everything you do is crazy and quite annoying. It is as if you own nothing, and in actuality you really do not own anything, considering nobody really has allodial title on their homes. They are forever collateral to the state, which is collateral to the interests of the bankers. Thoughout antiquity, ther have been long periods of homeowners actualyl owning their homes via this Allodial title. That's doesn't seem to be the case anymore. And wecan observe, also today, the financialization of every industry and the speculation of that market. Money speculation produces nothing.

My point? Everything I wrote is in regards to industries within the USA being stolen from others within the USA, and keeping that, by doing 2 things, allowing money to dictate who gets to play, and insuring the regulations keep others out.

As to 'free trade' being the mother of all evils, or part of it, okay, but what's the root cause? People who don't give a shit about self development. I'd argue that there's nothing more efficient than people doing for themselves, and their own community. Regulations in any guise aid tryants.

Money dictates everything, yes, for those who love profit and money (mamon) over God and merrit. Jesus was certainly right when he said you can not love two masters. If you love one, then you'll hate the other. Jesus was revolutionary in what he preached and the usurious Catholic Church, the state vested in the interests of a long \developed conspiracy of the international banking swindle, has led to what we see today. There's no doubt about this, and most people find this as totally normal.

Keep in mind when you see corporatists askign for less regulations, what they really mean, is that they will use the revolving door of corproate regulators to regulate everyone else, ensuring they stay the power players in a game that has already been rigged by them. And if regulations are ever used to thwart their many schemes, it is only done by the state at a miniscule level, and nothing that would help the middle class or bring back what was lost.

People who don't give a shit about self development. I'd argue that there's nothing more efficient than people doing for themselves, and their own community. Regulations in any guise aid tryants.

I agree, but it becomes harder and harder to do just this. Develop yourself, on your own terms, when the state seeks to deveop you for themselves. The starting point should be to help your community, for if everyone did just this, we wouldn't be seeing the increasing parasitic nature of greed that has seeped into the localities. Again, you do not need to be religious to see that Jesus was right.

As for the idea of a tyrant. Because corporations are now people, are corporations now tyrants. We should keep in mind, the definition of tyrants today is a much different matter, than tyrants in antiquity. Back then, tyrants were used to restore order. That is to abolish the creditor class and oligarchic classes who preyed on the weak. Many cases they restored all debts to farmers so that they could again farm on their own terms and produce for an economy that was gutted by the creditor class. Tyrants today, were probably much different than those in antiquity, the definitions have changed.

[–]HeyImSancho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As for the idea of a tyrant. Because corporations are now people, are corporations now tyrants. We should keep in mind, the definition of tyrants today is a much different matter, than tyrants in antiquity. Back then, tyrants were used to restore order. That is to abolish the creditor class and oligarchic classes who preyed on the weak. Many cases they restored all debts to farmers so that they could again farm on their own terms and produce for an economy that was gutted by the creditor class. Tyrants today, were probably much different than those in antiquity, the definitions have changed.

I've been digesting your post as time permits. Do you have any links for 'tyrant' meeting the requirements you lay out above; it reads as though the word used to be seen in a positive light, but I'm not finding it. Thanks in Advance.

Aside from that, and somewhat on the topic of this thread: https://www.mintpressnews.com/peoples-guide-revolution-why-popular-protests-fail/263503/ <<<--- it's a long article, I've made it most of the way through. I find it interesting as it makes the argument that a leaderless rebellion never goes anywhere...... Yet, think about that for a sec, we're doomed to always bow to the next guy who makes it big enough to take control, and sculpt their vision of how things should be....

At face value, it looks like we'll always be playing the wash, rinse, and repeat cycle, perpetually. In that since, the only thing I could agree on is the most restricted, and limited form of govt; as it will also follow the cycle.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Babylonian Woe by David Astle, Michael Hudson's Forgive them their debts... and many other historical books on money power throughout history talk about resotring order through Tyrants. THough, although nto a tyrant, Solon is a good place to start. Research him. Modern books on the money power and/or the history of usury and financial slavery are filled with misinformation, outright fiction and disinformation. If we were to focus on the US we would look at the banking archives opened to the public. Seems like the public, book peddlers and congress don't care aout these archives, that clearly show two banking dynasties, the bank of England, ie. Rothschilds competeing with a newly established frankfurt school of bankers. The fight was over who would control the central bank(s) in the US.

Rebellion never goes anywhere...... Yet, think about that for a sec, we're doomed to always bow to the next guy who makes it big enough to take control, and sculpt their vision of how things should be....

Or the money power give us our rebellion heros, so that they can create the desired reaction and synthesis. What has been clear in this regard is that the US has to collapse for the money power to set up their long awaited goal of a one world government. The UN will then be transofrmed from then on. There's a book writtten by an Israeli ZIonist Neoconservative who basically says the US and taxpayers in the US are being used for Balkanization in the middle east, and as a military force only but EVENTUALLY, the US will have to collapse, as is necessary for a one world governmetn to emerge. Both the US banking cartel, and the BIS and multilateral bankign cartel in Russia and China are in on this sham. THe east vs. west is just a dialectic that is currently being used to create a one world government. But until now, and then, and most likely after, the common person will continue to be exploited.

At face value, it looks like we'll always be playing the wash, rinse, and repeat cycle, perpetually. In that since, the only thing I could agree on is the most restricted, and limited form of govt; as it will also follow the cycle.

I agree.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

War is the catalyst for a national debt. Who are the funders and starters? Thus fiat printing and the money lenders swoop in, whether Zionists, Talmudists, Hospitallars for the papacy, Rothschild banks, Warburg banks, Frankfurt banks, BIS, central or international encompassing banks; war debts are thus the mother of royal monopolies. Extract monopoly rent and increased centralization and control was the old order and is the current order and will be the new order.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with you. But I think with any economic system radicals and corporatists can take hold and control it to their own benefit.

Here, despite some of the alarmist articles on this site, I found this to be a good read: https://blog.heartland.org/2016/12/economic-ideas-adam-smith-on-free-trade-crony-capitalism-and-the-benefits-from-commercial-society/


And isn't free markets a neoliberal and left leaning desire, whereas protectionism more right leaning?

[–]HeyImSancho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

hmmm, I've written out a few long screeds, and hit delete a few times, lol!

In short, I don't see anything in our current world changing for the better, or working in an agreeable way, anytime soon.

People fail at respect for others, and especially for themselves. They cower from thought, and especially when critical thinking is necessary. When it gets really painful, comprehension that is, most turn to religion.

Tyrants exploit this by filling the voids-always. The people even endorse being chattel property at this point. The sad part is, spiritually, self-determination is what makes us real, and alive.

[–]DffrntDrmmr 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

"Karl Marx said..." pretty much discredits whatever follows.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

this is just more proof marx was a banker plant IMO, seems either naive or overly optimistic to think tha making tings worse for proletariot will cause them to rise up. They're too stuoid, they will never rise. Russia had a vanguard party that got power, got corrupt, never gave back power, became czars, collapsed supposedly and still has a czar just with less power. Big deal.

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Capitalism and communism work hand-in-hand. That is why capitalists in the US funded Stalin and communism. The state would be used as a manufacturing hub and an effective tool to create an enemy so as to engender a coordinated arms race. The cold war was a sham.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

they ended the cold war, was that just bankers getting greedy and they wanted quick easy cash for oligarchs with free trade in the 90s? It seems they regret ending it and have tried to retstart the cold war and saying putin man bad. Anthony Sutton woke me up to the cold war being fake.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, it is said that the last czars were killled by the Bolsheviks but there's a great book called, The Escape of the Romanovs, which makes a good case that they were not killed. The Russian Revolution was a foreign revolution, funded by US banking elites. Such as Paul Warburg and Jacob Schiff. All we see today in Russia is the re-privitization of industry and free markets which money swindlers and loigarchs have bought up by the pennies. It's still a shithole controleld by power corrupt individuals, just like in the SOviet Union and just like in the US.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the romanov's must have somehow pissed off the bankers. Plenty of them lived but they don't get to retake over as monarchs now after 1991. I wonder if yeah, the communist revolution was fake, but there really were true believers for decades that made it a bit hard for oligarchs to swindle and graft so they wanted the fake vestige of socialism gone to have even less of a barrier to steal everything not nailed down.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Guilt by Association Fallacy.

It is of the form: Hitler liked animals. You like animals. You seem very much like a Nazi!