So now Richard Spencer is counter-signaling Keith Woods?

submitted by [deleted] from self.debatealtright

I'm a guy who is always impressed by (most of) Spencer's analysis. But if you look on Twitter, now he's feuding with Keith (along with Richard's butt buddy Mark Brahmin). Keith apparently is no longer on Spencer's show.

Spencer often alludes to this idea of cleansing the ranks of the alt-right because he learned from the rise of the alt-lite in 2016-17 and how it was counter-productive. Ok, fair enough, but why does Spencer literally bash just about everyone? He's spoken against alt-right or otherwise 'anti-woke' commentators of every stripe. What is the criteria to NOT get bashed or counter-signaled by Spencer? Other than being Mark Brahmin...

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[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Tbf 2/3rd of those are also cringe

    [–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    He's banned from TRS? I thought he was in that cluque

    [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    He basically has his own clique now. Nobody really wants to deal with him. Mark Brahmin and Ed Dutton need to get off the sinking ship.

    [–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Ed Dutton isn't toxic like him. Dutton frequently disagrees with him on stream. Dutton has some conservative-esque tendencies but overall, he's a joy to watch and a seeker of truth.

    Mark Brahmin is a subversive loser who was propelled to the spotlight purely by Spence. Odin was Jewish, norse mythology is semtic, feminism is based... a total wacko. This notwithstanding his simping for a French Jewish prostitute.

    [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Dutton has some conservative-esque tendencies but overall, he's a joy to watch and a seeker of truth.

    Agreed. Which is why I think he needs to get away from Spencer. I'd much rather see Dutton with Allsup, Enoch and Borzoi Squad.

    Mark Brahmin is a subversive loser who was propelled to the spotlight purely by Spence. Odin was Jewish, norse mythology is semtic, feminism is based... a total wacko.

    You might be right about his subversive nature but he's not wrong that Jews are HEAVILY involved in all sides of academics and that includes interpretations of the classics/religion/culture/European culture. I have not read every article on his blog but he seems to make good points on Jewish narratives in Hollywood.

    This notwithstanding his simping for a French Jewish prostitute.

    I was not aware of this. Is this a current thing or something in his past? I know that a lot of dissidents are former liberals (myself included) so I try to go easy on people if their simping and degeneracy was during a liberal phase. If you live in Wiemar it's nearly impossible not to have some of it rub off on you.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Brahmin is a joke. He is affiliated with a bunch of feminists and libertines.

    [–]Minedwe 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Spencer is practically alt-lite. Keith and Cultured Thug and the people who actually theorize, explain, etc. are infinitely more valuable than alt lite cucks who kneel to Twitter and megacorps so they can make strongly worded, witty criticisms of society to own the libs.

    Spencer is the slightly less Jewish version of Shapiro.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      The former is more grounded in actual reality.

      [–]president_camacho 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I'm someone that paid attention to the alt right fairly recently, within the last 2 years, so I still have a somewhat normie perspective on some alt right figures, and I can tell you Spencer is radioactive. I disliked him almost immediately. About the only positive thing I could say about him is that I admired his willingness to speak out even when it made him a target of attack. Other then that he just comes across as a total douchebag and does more harm than good. He's a smart guy, but his aggressive might makes right attitude is toxic, as is his penchant for drama.

      Woods on the other hand is someone normies could agree with and even admire. He is an effective gateway, despite being fairly radical in his views(by liberal Jewish establishment standards). Maybe Spencer resents him for this, along with some of the other targets Spencer attacks. Spencer seems to crave some normie legitimacy and will also attack some alt right figures who dont care about such things.

      Either way I see Spencer as irrelevant and deeply flawed. People would do well to move on from him.

      [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It's always been the same in the DR. Greg Johnson hates Spencer. Spencer hates Johnson. Cliques form; people choose sides and decide their particular form of DR thought is the one and only salvation -- 'Groypers' do this constantly.

      It's very catty and gay and the least appealing part of the whole thing for me. Unless we can unite and get over these stupid disagreements we'll just be forever a squabbling and irrelevant mess.

      That being said I don't think this is really a feud. It's just a disagreement. No big deal.

      [–]weaselWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Where is he feuding with Keith?

      [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      Link?

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/1345507698758938624

      Arguing with the other guy, he does bring some good arguments to his initial post.

      https://twitter.com/RichardBSpencer/status/1345584084957814784

      [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I don't see the antagonism though.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Same, even though his tweet was meaningless (ironically). It only attracts drama seekers who always talk about disavowings and associations and other personal shit.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It's fair to point out that this comment wasn't that antagonistic. However, Brahmin has been publicly disagreeing with Keith on Twitter for well over a month now (or more). And, as I pointed out, Keith is no longer invited on Richard's show. And, we know Richard very often targets others in the movement. I will say it's possible Richard meant nothing by it, but it's also easy to see this as Brahmin and Richard are slowly and strategically turning against Keith.

      [–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      This is just what Spencer does and has always done

      [–]Dashing-Dove 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

      Keith: Ireland belongs to the Irish. It's inevitable.

      Richard: Slogans like this are so trite as to be utterly meaningless. Is Ireland not an independent Republic that derives sovereignty from the populace?

      Keith: Ireland is a captured state utterly subservient to international capital and its social agenda. The Irish people already voted overwhelmingly against having Nigerian anchor babies in their country.

      What a feud - not. Richard has a habit of calling people out for dumbass comments regardless of their position in or out of the alt-right, and he doesn't mince words. It certainly comes across as abrasive, but I think there's usually substance to his critique, and not mere attention-seeking contrarianism, so I'm glad he's around, even though some of his takes are insane or driven by lust for power. Closing ranks isn't always the best course.

      I mean, take apart what Keith is saying. "It's inevitable." Is it really? No, the Irish are losing their fucking nation at a rapid rate. Most western homelands are subservient to international capital, but it doesn't mean the people are enslaved. They can and should spread the truth, convince others, and enact political change that extricates themselves from their unenviable position. That is sovereignty, and it doesn't come unless you take it by force of arms or a silver tongue. The English aren't an occupying force in the year 2021, turn both eyes to the banks instead. Keith seems to understand this, but his original statement was simply wrong.

      [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      Richard should air out his 'critiques' in cozy streams and real life discussions that have the air of respect and mutual good faith debate.

      Twitter on the other hand is a social media site geared to cater to coordinated reputation attacks, and getting followers to engage in similar stunts. If Richard wants dissidents to respect and follow him he shouldn't 'critique' right using twitter or other such platforms. Twitter should exclusively be used for being critical of mainstream left and right. Richard constantly acts like his ego and follower count are more important than the cause of white nationalism/survival/sovereignty.

      [–]Dashing-Dove 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Richard 100% has an ego, but he usually has fair points as well. He wasn't even particularly rude. Calling a statement trite and meaningless shouldn't be so triggering. Keith is a big boy and can handle it - which he did, in a civil fashion. As far as the suitability of platforms for discussion, I will agree that Twitter ranks at the bottom. Unfortunately, people are driven to type where there are eyes to view it, no matter the character limit.

      [–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I find it suspicious that Spencer is till on Twitter.

      [–]Dashing-Dove 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I've heard him talk and he comes across as genuine, whatever the objections to his effete speaking style or argumentative behavior. I just think his mind follows patterns of logic that lead to occasionally fucked suggestions, like supporting Biden. If he wanted to grift, he's doing a poor job of it, and half of the alt-right seems to dislike him, so that's some truly stellar infiltration. The most worrying hunch I have is that he thrives on chaos and is too confident in coming out on top of the heap. Jack Dorsey would probably send him to re-education camp if given the opportunity, along with every one of us.

      [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      He has been banned before. He doesn't post anything overtly controversial and twitter has the most lenient standards of all the major social media sites.

      [–]president_camacho 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

      I mean, take apart what Keith is saying. "It's inevitable." Is it really? No, the Irish are losing their fucking nation at a rapid rate.

      You're blaming the guy for being positive and making the case that it should be inevitable. The concern is that people become so demoralized they give up. Woods understands optics, Spencer doesnt.

      [–]Dashing-Dove 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      He made no such case. The only inevitability is that the Irish will become a minority ethnic group by 2050 if demographic trends continue, at which point their nation will no longer belong to them. Keith himself isn't stupid, and there is a place for positivity. Circling the wagon over a blunt Twitter reply just strikes me as pathetic, as does the obsession with optics. Lawdy me, oh dear, oh my, Richard B Spencer's being a meanie again! We might lose a boomercon from such foul behavior! Quick, someone flush the black pills, it's an emergency!

      [–]president_camacho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      Circling the wagon over a blunt Twitter reply just strikes me as pathetic, as does the obsession with optics

      Obsession with optics? What else is there besides optics at this point? The entire point is to persuade whites of what is happening to them, and to unite them to oppose this. It is all optics. Please explain what else there is?

      [–]Dashing-Dove 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      Style of optics, then. Seeking to minimize supposed in-fighting. The examples I've seen are weak and barely qualify as such. They're strongly worded disagreements at worst, which I would expect to be welcomed by anyone seeking the truth or best way forward. The level of hypersensitivity on display reminds me of leftist snowflakes. As for normies, obviously don't go around performing a Nazi salute or anything that would provoke an immediate gut level emotional recoil leading to hands over the ears.

      With that said, what use are trite expressions like "X nation belongs to Y ethnic group and it's inevitable." No, it isn't, there's no need to even argue. False on the face of it. I would rather rile people up with actual information giving them an "Oh shit, we're losing our country" moment. How bluntly depends on the audience. You'll risk alienating Twitter users with statements like Keith's just as much as by Richard's reply.

      I will agree that Keith is by nature more relatable and speaks in a calm way that can pull normies in. Maybe Richard can work on that, if he cares to, but I suspect he's too prideful and internally annoyed over the state of the world to tone down his rhetoric. I don't believe in casting him aside for this, or moving on from him as your original post suggests, because he has value intellectually and doesn't just regurgitate talking points. Being challenged is important for the community.

      [–]president_camacho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      I totally disagree. Demoralization is the biggest problem. Most normies will side with whoever they view the winning team is, and if you do nothing but whine and moan about how badly you're losing, you will lose. You wont attract new converts and will drive away those you have.

      I despise chronic blackpillers. These people have no fortitude. One wonders how their ancestors ever survived hard times. These people would be utterly useless in a civil war. As soon as things started to go against them they would give up.

      [–]Dashing-Dove 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Being told your nation will always belong to you inspires complacency. What we're lacking are plans of action to rectify the situation, and the broad public will to see it done. Some inroads can be made politically, and by convincing others. I would suggest the greatest difficulty right now is that people don't understand why demographic change is problematic, and they're unwilling to listen, because it goes against years of social programming. Alerting people to those problems doesn't imply there is no hope to fix them, and it isn't whining. If anything, Keith calling Ireland a captured utterly subservient state would qualify as such, also claiming that the democratic process failed for them and there is no solution. Woe is me, bitch more. Richard's take is that sovereignty depends on the population actually doing something. That's how I read it, anyway.

      [–]president_camacho 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Woods tweet wasnt inspiring complacency. Do you think anyone that follows his account is in denial about what is going on, and that something must be done with it?

      [–]Dashing-Dove 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Do you think anyone following Keith's account is going to be demoralized by Richard calling the tweet trite? At this point, I'm somewhat embarrassed to have used this many words to discuss such a minor exchange.

      More broadly, demoralization is absolutely at work by our enemies, and it's a steady barrage to grind us down from every angle. I won't object to assertions of defiance and the suggestion that blood and land are bound, which was Keith's intent, only that it's counterproductive and unnecessary to rail so hard against Richard and so-called countersignaling when the statement he's replying to is dumb and wrong in a literal sense, and while normies will see it and think - "yeah okay buddy, Ireland belongs to all of its citizens." If he were routinely a monkey flinging shit with no substance behind it, I would be a harsher judge.

      Nothing is inevitable. You just have to fight like a bastard, and do so intelligently against a system and people that want you eternally silenced. On that, we can surely agree, methodology aside. I'm going to step back now, because I'm tired of defending the man. I don't even follow his fucking Twitter, nor Keith's.

      [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      I thought Keith was a nationalist who also promoted the idea of a united Europe. I haven't heard him say anything to specifically reject the idea but I remember him having a video rejecting petty nationalism for a European cause but I can't find it so either he changed his mind and deleted it or I misremember and it never existed.

      I think division may be growing between them because Keith criticizes imperialism while Spencer embraces it.

      [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      You can promote both simultaneously, there is no contradiction, especially in our times. Pan-Europeanism is long-term ideal.

      If European state was properly imposed, you could still have your ethnic communities living predominantly on certain territory.

      Kinda like Croatia, we are really diverse group of people, northern and southern Croatians couldn't even communicate together if language wasn't standardized, this way they can, but they still maintain their respective local traditions and dialect.

      [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      You can promote both simultaneously, there is no contradiction

      Yes, I know. I was wondering if Keith rejected the pan European concept now because I remembered him having video about it but can't find it.

      [–]president_camacho 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I think division may be growing between them because Keith criticizes imperialism while Spencer embraces it.

      Spencer's might makes right mindset is toxic and destructive and threatens to drown the dissident right. Keith is completely right on this. He understands optics, understands the uniting and galvanizing value of morality. Spencer doesnt. He's an amoral slimey douchebag. He almost seems Jewish.

      [–]Nasser 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It really is unfortunate so see infighting but in cases like this I'd say it is relevant since we need the best arguments at our forefront. If it was over petty, personal shit we should be agitated. Our race is on a ticking clock, we can not afford to divide ourselves over inconsequential rubbish.

      [–]weaselWhite Nationalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      https://twitter.com/richardbspencer/status/1345467696318566400?s=21

      [–]president_camacho 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Spencer is getting schooled by actual Irish people on the meaning of the phrase, and it's usefulness.