all 15 comments

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

WLP is probably the last person I'd suspect to be a fed. I think he wrote the book to warn people so they'd join legal political parties and try to head off this dystopia we are living in now. The book was written in 1978.

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

William Luther Pierce? That sounds incredibly unlikely. He remained inflexible and extremely committed to his politics right up until the end of his life, and was perhaps the most industrious and influential figure on the American far right during his day. In addition to organising a large media empire, translating books and formulating his own doctrines, he also started a far right colony which to my knowledge is still active today, although it has experienced severe decline since Pierce's death. Pierce's liberal son has also described Pierce as extremely racist in private.

I think Pierce's situation is much more easily explained by his personality - he was just an extremely dogmatic person by nature, and it just so happens that the thing he was dogmatic about was racism. Some people put dogma above everything else, and although there aren't too many of them, they still exist. Dawkins is another such example. Just like it is completely impossible to imagine someone like Dawkins without his atheism, so it is with Pierce and racism. Savitri Devi is another similar case, although I think it is also safe to say that she was definitely on the spectrum as well.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Savitri Devi didn't advocate for guerrilla warfare, did she? And she didn't have a history of working for defense contractors.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I am not aware of Pierce doing that either. Are you referring to his fictional works?

As to Savitri Devi, to my recollection she was sentenced by the Allies in 1947 for trying to foment a National Socialist uprising and was imprisoned for four years. This is described in her autobiography. Admittedly, I might be remembering the cause for her imprisonment incorrectly, but she certainly engaged in illegal, anti-Allied propaganda efforts and involved local Germans as well.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Are you referring to his fictional works?

Yes. Their implication in multiple bombings (I know there are conspiracy theories about OKC), and the culture which they have spawned. Let's not forget that James Mason was his student. I've never read "Siege", and I have no plans to, but from what I gather, I would guess that it's very similar to the Turner Diaries, only more specific in its prescriptions. All I know is that the moment someone tells you to REED SEEJ, you should run 100 miles in the opposite direction.

she certainly engaged in illegal, anti-Allied propaganda efforts and involved local Germans as well.

She was imprisoned for spreading Nazi ideology, which was - and remains - illegal in much of Europe. As far as I can tell, she never endorsed any sort of violence.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To my knowledge, Pierce kept his own organisations strictly legal and even tried to push illegal-leaning elements of the American rightist ecosystem into legal activism. I think that is pretty antithetical to the typical behaviour of infiltrators - those would normally aim to change already existing organisations, rather than founding their own large groups and maintaining political discipline. If I had to guess, Pierce's fictional works are probably his own way of venting and dealing with his own feelings - as I stated earlier, as I understand it he was an extremely dogmatic person, so he was probably in a constant state of anger and frustration given the status of his principles in American politics and society. With all that said, I really don't know what his motivations with those books were. There may be interviews on this topic that you can find? I do not know.

She was imprisoned for spreading Nazi ideology, which was - and remains - illegal in much of Europe. As far as I can tell, she never endorsed any sort of violence.

If I recall correctly, the posters she was arrested for distributing promoted the restoration of National Socialism and the expulsion of the Allied powers from German territory. Unfortunately, it has been years since I read her autobiography, so I cannot speak with certainty. What I can assure is that in her autobiography she certainly endorses past violence.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let's not forget that James Mason was his student.

Mason was more influenced by Joseph Tomassi and the NSLF. Pierce never encouraged anyone to wage guerilla war in his time. He didn't morally condemn it, but he thought it was not tactically advisable with the conditions then.

[–]asterias 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Savitri embraced various Hindu philosophical ideas and was even a pioneering proponent for animal rights.

Pierce has written other books as well, but I guess it's not that easy to find a copy thanks to the virtual ban on his books. It would be interesting to see what they were about.

[–]Mr9to5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’ve never seen that one proposed but it’s a good example for illustrating how this question usually lacks relevance. Let’s say he was - information on Alliance members would’ve been gathered, kept somewhere and probably was used to track them without most of their lives being visibly affected. Let’s say he wasn’t - USPS, moles and the ADL monitored them, instead -information on Alliance members would’ve been gathered, kept somewhere and probably was used to track them without most of their lives being visibly affected.

In many European countries, Nationalist organizations have cooperated with law enforcement to either protect law abiding members by agreeing to identify bad actors or to get government funding. This came out prominently in the NSU trials in Germany. What this establishes is even hardcore, true believers will do this if they think it’s good for the cause. We cannot solve this question, even if we know people’s intent. You name the major organization active today, it’s hard to 100% rule out they don’t do this.

The only thing to be done is to:

  1. Decide if you believe participating in groups is effective.
  2. If you do, decide what level of security culture you are comfortable with and stick with it.

I’ve been in situations where I pretty much know I’ve met glowies but all you do is what you do with non-glowies you don’t feel comfortable around - ghost them.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What makes you think so?

Nobody from National Alliance got fucked over, right?

Well, except Kevin Alfred Strom, but that was unrelated to NA. In fact, the whole thing fell apart after Pierce's death.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

In the above article, Striker argues that "The Base" is an FBI honeypot (and I don't disagree), and part of the evidence he cites is that its leader, Rinaldo Nazarro, has worked for the Pentagon's counterterrorism division. What I would be curious about is how Striker would reconcile Nazarro's likely role as a Western intelligence asset with his continued freedom in St. Petersburg.

In this video, someone from the BBC speaks to Rinaldo Nazarro, and a lot of what Nazarro says sounds like it is modeled after Pierce's most famous book. Therefore, I must ask: between his having written what amounts to a thinly veiled "armed resistance" manual, and his history of employment with DoE/DoD contractors, was Pierce a glownigger?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So your main point of contention is Turner Diaries and calls for attack on the system?

Crucial thing to understand though is how much more restrained we are compared to 30-40 years ago. Like WNs of the old literally had a TV show called Race and Reason running on cable TV, something like that today is unimaginable, they had an organization White Aryan Resistance (W.A.R.), lots of what we consider fedposting now was just normal talk just a few decades ago, and today some silly boomer posts are maliciously interpreted as an act of terrorism.

National Alliance also had a video game called Ethnic Cleansing where you shoot at nignogs and jews with Skrewdriver blasting in the background. I totally understand the optics concerns, but again, nobody got screwed over by National Alliance, it was took over by clowns after Pierce's death.

and his history of employment with DoE/DoD contractors

I'm not aware of this, any link or something?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm not aware of this, any link or something?

He worked at the Los Alamos National Laboratory before attending graduate school, initially at Caltech during 1955–56.[3][20]

Pierce left his tenure at Oregon State University and relocated to North Haven, Connecticut, to work as a senior researcher at the Advanced Materials Research and Development Laboratory of aerospace manufacturer Pratt & Whitney.[18]

[–]Nombre27 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You should read the biography on him. He was a student at LANL and then at Pratt & Whitney for a few years as a scientist.

It was before his full immersion into WN and he literally left that job to publish full time.

p. 44 - After graduation from military school in 1951, Pierce entered Rice University in Houston, Texas on a full academic scholarship. He majored in physics at Rice and graduated with a bachelors degree in that field in 1955.

p. 46 - After graduation from Rice, Pierce spent a few months working at the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory, in New Mexico, where he was a member of a team attempting to develop controlled nuclear fusion. He then continued on to graduate studies at the California Institute of Technology, in Pasadena. After a year at Caltech, Pierce accepted a position at the nearby Jet Propulsion Laboratory, where much of America’s interplanetary exploration program was developed, and worked in the area of rocket instrumentation. After fifteen months at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory he resumed his graduate studies at the University of Colorado, in Boulder, where he received first a master’s degree and then, in 1962, a doctorate in physics. All the way through his Colorado years he was awarded teaching and research assistantships, which covered his tuition and living expenses.

p. 47 - While at Caltech, Pierce met an undergraduate student by the name of Patricia Jones and fell in love. He and Patricia were married in California in 1957 when Pierce was at the Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Patricia's field was mathematics. She received a master’s degree in mathematics at Oregon State after she and Pierce moved to Oregon when he joined the OSU faculty. When the Pierces moved to Connecticut in 1965, Patricia taught math to General Dynamics employees. Pierce had decided to leave the faculty at Oregon State to take a job as a senior research scientist at Pratt & Whitney Advanced Materials Research and Development Laboratory in North Haven, Connecticut. He told me that the money was better at Pratt & Whitney and that he wanted to finance the writing he planned to do—at this point he had a book in mind—in the areas of culture and politics, which had come to take a central place in his life. He said he realized that the direction his thinking was taking him would in all likelihood rule out conventional publishing outlets and that he needed to get himself into a position to be able to finance the publication and distribution of his writings himself. For that he would need more money than he was making at Oregon State. People with his science background could make two or three times more in private industry than what universities were paying at that time.

p. 117 - "On June 6th, 1966, I hauled all those magazines off in my station wagon to the post office. I said to myself, iacta alea est—the die is cast. I have to make it work now. For me it was like jumping into unknown waters; would I sink or swim? I just assumed that I wouldn't be able to continue working at Pratt & Whitney once the magazine was published. So I quit my job there. I also had all these fantasies about what might happen to me when I made that first public commitment, publishing the first issue of the magazine. I thought that maybe I would become the target of black militant organizations or Jewish gangsters, that I'd get attacked or shot or something, I didn't know. But I was inspired by the example of Rockwell's courage. And I wanted to use my own name. I didn't want to be anonymous because I wanted to be in contact with people. As it turned out, nothing really happened. My theory is that the printed word doesn't mean all that much to blacks. They will only react when you actually get right in their face and confront them. As for Jews, if they sense a threat they'll use one of their organizations, or they'll form a new one and jump on you that way.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Seems like nothing out of ordinary if you choose that particular path.