all 17 comments

[–]NeoRail 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for wasting my time with this disinfo garbage. Your sources plainly and simply do not state what you claim they state.

[–]TheJamesRocket 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Alexander Dugin is anti-Western, anti-European, and anti-white. His ideology is okay for Russians, but it is absolute poison for the Alt Right.

[–]Mr9to5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I have a feeling few people here will remember this period but around 2010, there was a real attempt to try to get movement people to become Orthodox Christians, vaguely inspired by Dugin fanboys. There was a website called the Orthosphere that encouraged this view and let people put themselves on a map to find other interested people. Unsurprisingly, no one for hundreds of miles was interested in this niche, dubious ideology.

I later visited a Russian Orthodox Church in hopes oil magnets praying there would adopt me and I could marry a based blonde. There were some hot babes but I had no idea what was going on for the nearly 2 hours of bowing and vernacular that isn’t my vernacular. I concluded this was not a magic pill to save the West. Alas, the highest accomplishment of the great Orthodox proselytization campaign was determining the fate of Matt Heimbach’s soul.

Kids, hug your Pepe doll close and be glad you didn’t live in that Stone Age.

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't know anything about an Orthodox boom in 2010, but there definitely has been one in recent years, at least as far as memes are concerned. I don't think that has anything to do with Dugin though. Rather, it seems to me that the more important factors have been dissatisfaction with Catholicism, the works of Seraphim Rose, the works of Guenon and finally the existence of a small subculture of people who are extremely obsessed with traditional Christian theology and express interest in the mystical tradition of Orthodoxy.

[–]Mr9to5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think it’s something that probably has come around full circle - or it could be a new group of people following the same line of thought to the same conclusions. The situation was very similar back then.

Back then, there was a weak Buchanan/American Conservative Catholic thing in the US but it never really got anywhere because America ultimately remains a nation with a significant number of people who are ambivalent to Catholicism. Still, I looked at Catholicism and so did many others. The best there was to be found was stuff like Rod Dreher. There was also the perpetual Pope Problem - what to do about the fact the Papacy ultimately has been diverted to globalist goals?

Out of that and the first period of a significant number of people reading about Guenon/Evola (and to a lesser degree, the Iron Guard) came the idea of using Orthodox churches as both a spiritual and political basis. Doing so was “more nationalist” and “purer Christianity,” all without the Pope problem.

This was all very politically flawed because Orthodox Christianity is rare in America and the populations associated with it generally don’t want that type of uninvited outside attention. Heimbach ran into that, he was apparently inspired to enter politics from these ideas but when the heat was turned up, was quickly disowned.

One thing I definitely wouldn’t have expected was the Groypers. Traditional Catholicism is a more reasonable way to synthesize these ideas but I still wouldn’t have expected it to have had any success as a brand.

I agree none of this truly has to do with Dugin, more Western spinned “Duginism.” It’s been a decade since I read Fourth Political Theory but I don’t recall him saying half the thing people try to tack on him, including this stuff.

[–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The best there was to be found was stuff like Rod Dreher.

I think Dreher did convert to Orthodoxy eventually, didn't he? I rarely run into any information about him, but last I heard he was some kind of "alt lite" Orthodox conservative guy.

One thing I definitely wouldn’t have expected was the Groypers. Traditional Catholicism is a more reasonable way to synthesize these ideas but I still wouldn’t have expected it to have had any success as a brand.

I remember being pretty impressed with what the Groypers achieved with the pressure they were putting on conservative youth groups, but ultimately I think Catholicism is just an aesthetic for these people.

I agree none of this truly has to do with Dugin, more Western spinned “Duginism.” It’s been a decade since I read Fourth Political Theory but I don’t recall him saying half the thing people try to tack on him, including this stuff.

I don't think Dugin is even Orthodox lol, last I checked he was a member of the Old Believers. My experience has been the same as yours in regard to discussion of "Duginism" - I have read very little of Dugin's work, but it has basically nothing to do with the accusations levied against him, some of which are particularly outlandish.

[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Were you the one who commented that you were an avid reader of Schopenhauer as a younger man, before you deleted the comment in question?

Recently, I've been looking into Schopenhauer after moving from the man he considered himself the last true follower of, Kant. I am, however, finding Schopenhauer's compassion- or empathy-based ethics rather inadequate.

I would thus benefit greatly from knowing which specific parts or ideas of Schopenhauer's philosophy that you found most compelling, so that I may have specific topics with which I can begin my own research.

[–]Mr9to5 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, that was me. I’m writing off the cuff but he wrote quite a bit on misanthropy/the general failings of people in Essays and Aphorisms and Counsels and Maxims. He proposes a kind of neo-Stoic ethos as a way of coping with the way people are. That’s what initially pulled me in and those are fine reads.

World as Will and Representation can be read in a very fascist light - though Schopenhauer doesn’t go there, he passes by it many times. He writes how nature only cares about the species, not the individual. At one point, which I think certainly influenced Nietzsche, he considers that if human beings are driven by will (instinct) one could embrace life as a constant battle and “renounce” it that way, living heroically. He shys away and says it’s not the best ideal - but almost goes there. He views aesthetics and high culture as a way of escaping the meaninglessness of our daily life.

Hitler was said to carry a copy with him on the Front during World War 1. Wagner said his religion was Schopenhauer.

[–]RichtoffLud 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So, what's wrong with Dugin being against Anti-Western, European and White? He is not white, basically all liberal ideology came from Europe (whom Dugin is against), white Europeans are watching Europe crumble under their eyes, and they do nothing, many sell themselves for pro-immigration, pro-multicultural, multi-religious and Zionism ideologies. Whites lost the war in 1945, and since then Europe and America only serve Jews.

[–]TheJamesRocket 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

An anti-Western ideology like Dugins is fine for Russians, but its inimical to our own cause. We want to take back the West and reclaim our identity as white Europeans, not renounce it. The Western civilisation Dugin rails against has been captured by his own co-ethnics. Jews have had total control over the West since WW2.

[–]Wickedgs[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child) Dugin brings forth a right wing critique of nationalism, and defeats 'Ukrainian' arguments for nationalism. Namely, Russians, whom the so called Ukrainians are part of, have always been a mixed people. The spiritual answer to so called Ukrainian nationalism is Orthodox imperialism.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It's a pretty reasonable stance since nationalism is an emergent ideology sprung after the French Revolution. Now it's extremely ingrained in the western identity but it was, in first instance, a movement against the kings and the ancient regime. And dugin takes proud in refuting everything modern.

The very same thing, just to be clear, is the basis of his critique to the idea of white race.

[–]EuropeanAwakening14 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

No. That's the modernist mainstream academic view of nationalism. The more correct view is the primodialist view that nationalism has always been around through human history, written about by men like Azar Gat, Anthony Smith, and Walker Connor. In group preference didn't magically start existing in the 19th century.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ethnic unity, ethnic identity and ethnic solidarity have always existed, but nationalism itself as an ideology is indeed purely a modern development, and to be honest, it does not really have much to do with the traditional conceptions of ethnic unity. Hence why historically nationalism has seen such extensive use by left wing movements, and why it is so deformed today, what with civic nationalism, "Western values" etc.

[–]EuropeanAwakening14 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That depends on how you define "nation". If a nation is members of an ethnic group who are represented by a sovereign state, then yes, nationalism has existed throughout human history. I'm taking a Keith Woods approach here.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think that Woods and Davis are correct on this issue. Obviously, nationalism is very important today, but historically it emerged as a modern, antitraditional phenomenon. Ethnic loyalty, on the other hand, predates history itself, and served as the premodern, but also more cohesive, basis for modern nationalism.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a great fan of Anthony Smith and I really appreciate his definition of ethnic group, but that doesn't change the fact that there wasn't a political stance named nationalism until 1800s, and that at first instance it was a movement against the multi-national European Kingdoms and Empires