Italian election thread

submitted by Rakean93Identitarian socialist from self.debatealtright

So, the "hard" right won. This was expected.

THE PARTIES

FDI: historically is the post fascist party. During the campaign the leadership tried pretty hard to appear as un-based as possible. At least they didn't cucked on gay rights, abortion, immigration and support for traditional family, including very aggressive pro-birth policies for Italians. FDI is a solid ally of Orban and Orban was cited as an example for the now incoming government - still, they managed to completely cuck on NATO and ukie issues. Sad.

League: historically a Nordic separatist party, it turned in 2018 in what I can only describe as a very tame form of white nationalist party, but like, very tame. In the present situation is more pro-russia compared to FDI.

FI: it was the right wing liberal party but it's just the Berlusconi's party. They want to cut the taxes for the rich and prevent their leader from being harassed by the police. It campaigned on cutting the taxes for the rich, but Berlusconi is kinda funny and in the last week said that Putin just wants to substitute Zelensky with "a good person", implying Zelensky is a bad guy. Based.

PD: evil left wing liberal scum that just wants Italians to die - also campaigned on cutting children's dicks because they are evil.

M5S: left wing populists, mildly pro-russia.

Third pole: basically since everyone is scared by the fascism this time was formed an "hard center coalition" that campaigned on the fact that they are extremely moderate in every single issue. Weird and gay but that's that.

THE DATA: FDI 26% League 8,5% FI 8% -> this coalition has a supermajority in both chambers, outnumbering all the opposition by more than 100 seats. That's because they formed a coalition and got most of the uninominal seats. They are even able to change the constitution without a referendum even with 0 support from the opposition.

PD: 18%

M5s: 16,5

Third pole: 7%

Early analysis: both PD and league severely underperformed, with league getting as much as 4 points LESS than it was projected to win. Since the right was projected to win by a huge margin, I think that a lot of league electors just didn't bothered to going to vote. A lot also voted for FDI instead, which over-performed by 2-points.

The absolute crash of the PD, which was projecte to be extremely close to FDI, is indeed a very good sign. They underperformed by 7-8 points.

Overall, the ones perceived as radical wins both in left and right. You should keep in mind that FDI is largely perceived as the literal fascist party, while m5S is getting closer to the ethos of the old Communist party - patriotic, anti-american, pro Russia. Obviously that's not the case, but still pretty a result on the culture war side.

all 25 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Looks like FDI, League, and M5s should have made the coalition and got rid of the subhuman sounding FI to me.

Combining left and right populism would send a chill down every jew on the planet's spine. When they see the teaming up with the cuck lolberts to create a rightoid coalition it's clear they will be controllable in 99% of circumstances. We'll see what happens though.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Left-wing "populism" is fake. They'll always side with the kikes when push comes to shove. They talk about the working class, but what they actually mean is fags, trannies, camwhores and non-whites.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So is right wing populism. If 2 parties did come together that were representatives of each side is what would be interesting.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fair enough.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

No, because m5s is pro gay and pro migrants, while FI is okay to ban gender shit and deploy the army to block immigrants as long as they can get lower taxes. Unfortunately it was a matter of choosing the lesser evil - plus Berlusconi is the one that promoted the early career of Giorgia Meloni when her party was 1%, so maybe there was a personal dimension involved.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Keep all the power in the hand of jewish speculators is not the lesser evil.

plus Berlusconi is the one that promoted the early career of Giorgia Meloni when her party was 1%, so maybe there was a personal dimension involved.

Yeah prolly.

I don't expect much good unless they can basically ignore the UKIP style lolbert bullshit from FI and actually do some economic reforms.

[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

M5S is clearly worse than FI. FI is still an improvement over any Anglosphere Tory party, probably also better than UKIP, Reform or whatever the Farage followers are currently in. Sure, Guardianistas and other trash in the Anglophone mass media hate both M5S and Berlusconi, but they see M5S merely as 'populist' and Berlusconi as 'fascist', strongly suggesting that Berlusconi is the lesser of evils.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's pretty clear wokeoid nonsense is downstream of power and not the other way around. Fixing the economic system so power is no longer in the hands of jews solves wokeoid nonsense, but being anti-woke does absolutely nothing to affect their power. It just acts as catharsis for ordinary people who are sick of gay pride parades and shit, but the same jews pushing libertinism (degeneracy) still have all the power and will continue pushing it just more slowly for the few years the non-woke facade is up for.

Jeremy Corbyn's labour would have done more damage to jewish power in England, despite being gay and retarded, than any of the anti-woke right wing parties. Assuming M5s is more or less the same as that then they're obviously the better option over any kind of typical right party in Europe IE Korwin Mikke, Orban etc types. Wouldn't they also be outnumbered anyway or would they have veto power in terms of blocking them from stopping immigration, trannies in schools or whatever other stupid gay shit capitalists like?

[–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We have to consider just how bad of a coalition partner M5S is.

After the 2018 election, M5S explicitly ruled out forming a government with any of the 'Centre-Right coalition' parties. Di Maio (M5S leader) wanted to form a government with the PD, but the PD wouldn't accept joining a coalition with any of the 'Centre-Right coalition' parties either. Eventually, the government was formed, composed solely of Lega and a reluctant M5S who clearly would have preferred a government with PD and some smaller parties.

So, here's my first key point: M5S clearly doesn't even like Lega, FdI, or FI in the first place, which makes the idea of replacing FI with them in 'Centre-Right coalition' government untenable. They couldn't work with those parties the first time around, and there's no point in giving them a second chance to do what I'm about to mention, viz. literally collapse the government and give it back to the Left.

In late 2019, M5S left the government and promptly formed a new government with PD and two other garbage Left-liberal parties. The mess that this created meant that the Left ended up ruling for most of the term that Lega should have been in government for.

So here's my second key point: M5S is completely untrustworthy even if they were to accept a place in the 'Centre-Right coalition', since they gravitated back to their natural position as allies of the PD not long after the first time around.

In early 2021, this Left-wing second Conte government also collapsed because Renzi's small party (IV) left. Draghi then formed his government, which Lega and FI joined but within which they were heavily outnumbered by the Left parties (M5S, PD and four smaller ones).

M5S' refusal to work with the 'Centre-Right coalition' is the chief problem here. They had their chance to work with Lega and blew it, opting instead to work with our enemies like the PD and Renzi's splinter group of the PD. It's better not to include them so as not to repeat the sheer failures of the past four years.

The M5S isn't a serious party, which is why most of their gains have gone back to the PD. Those idiots even got the mayorship of Rome and a few other major cities only to screw up so bad that the PD took them back. Just look at them right now. They're literally in an alliance with a group called the Gay Party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Party

For the 2022 Italian general election, the party failed to collect the 80,000 signatures necessary to be able to register, and on 22 August they announced an agreement with the Five Star Movement to carry two candidates (Fabrizio Marrazzo and Marina Zela) on the party's lists.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Makes much more sense with context, they're not even pretending to care about economics, they're just radlibs.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    holy shit I wish I saw more people online posting takes like this

    Most people are fundamentally unserious is the problem. Any reasonable person would agree with this.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Combining left and right populism would send a chill down every jew on the planet's spine

    Already happened with the Salvini government. Left and right need to be reconciled, sure, but populism is just fake and gay.

    [–]arainynightinskyrim 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Great news, we can expect drastic reduction of immigration back to Salvini's numbers when he was interior minister.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Follow up: the abstention rate was extremely high, which is probably linked to the fact that the right was projected to win hard no matter what.

    [–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I was hoping you'd make a post on this, since you seem to be the most qualified here on the matter of Italian politics.

    What will the government actually look like? FdI coalitions with who exactly? What does the opposition look like, presumably with the PD being at the head of it?

    The other big question is how stable this government would be? For example, is there any chance of enough parties quitting government and moving into opposition in order to collapse the government and lead to another election?

    Also, that scumbag of a President can't do anything such as annul the results, right?

    Glad that PD didn't make as much of a comeback as I expected. It seemed to me that M5S voters were going back to the PD, but I prefer that they remain strong (and outside of the Left coalition) to divide the (normally) PD vote and the wider Left coalition vote.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    What will the government actually look like? FdI coalitions with who exactly?

    FDI formed a coalition with FI and league. it's hard to explain because Italy chanrs the electoral laws every few years; this time coalitions had to be formed before the elections because a lot of seats were uninominal - that means that there was a single candidate to be elected. So let's say that you have a coalition which gets 30% of the votes, and two indipendet parties each one with 20% of the votes - the coalition with 30% still gets elected. That's how the right ended up with a supermajority. The left can't even blame because this reform was created by them.

    FDI was expected to have less votes than league+FI combined. They instead got barely twice the vote of the "junior members" combined. So we can expect that FDI will express most of the government.

    What does the opposition look like, presumably with the PD being at the head of it?

    Basically m5s is anti-nato and PD is pro NATO, plus those two combined got less than 150 seats, while the right wing coalition has ~260 seats. They are not really in the position of doing anything

    The other big question is how stable this government would be? For example, is there any chance of enough parties quitting government and moving into opposition in order to collapse the government and lead to another election?

    Italian governments are unstable by design. I expect this government to last maybe 3 years. But the allies will withdraw their support only if they find out that they will be able to get better results in some early elections.

    Also, that scumbag of a President can't do anything such as annul the results, right?

    So that's kinda funny. When the monarchy was abolished the president got most of the power of the king. Theoretically he can just form a government with the left. He can even form a government with random people from the streets. But such a government wouldn't be able to pass any law because they need the votes of the two chambers, so sheninegans are highly unlikely. Furthermore FDI was by far the most voted party in the army, so...

    [–]LGBTQIAIDSAnally Injected Death Sentence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Ideally, FDI-FI-Lega is what I want to see, since that eliminates the need for any Left-wing party representation in the government whatsoever. Let the Leftists cry for a few years.

    A 'Centre-Right coalition' supermajority is obviously also desirable, since this means that the Left-wing can't even really do anything in the opposition.

    No Left-wing parties in government or in (meaningful) opposition makes this vastly better than the first Conte government, in which M5S ruined everything.

    Also good to hear that Mattarella can't realistically do anything. I think he was already very bothered by the first Conte-Salvini-Di Maio government (probably mostly because of Salvini), but now he's in a position that he would find even more disagreeable. From his point of view, Meloni-Salvini-Berlusconi are probably a far worse trio.

    How is M5S doing with Di Maio having left to form the 'Civic Commitment' party which is now part of the 'Centre-Left coalition'? Is the M5S voter base staying with their party under Conte outside of that coalition, or is there a big transfer of them to Di Maio's party?

    I like how M5S is in an alliance of sorts with the Gay Party. Says it all, really.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Di Maio is over, maybe he will join PD. He wasn't able to get past 1-2%. The majority of the m5s voters just went along with the main party.

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    They are even able to change the constitution without a referendum even with 0 support from the opposition.

    I wonder if they will actually make use of that ability or if they'll just let it pass them by. Pro-right Italians should definitely protest demanding this.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    They won't do radical shit, let's be honest. They are going to buy us time by promoting natality and blocking immigrants while also giving a favourable political landscape for the cultural action, but that's that.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    What a waste. They should certainly enshrine immigration and citizenship law reforms into the constitution, at the very least. There is no point in electoral victories if they are not put to use.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Well Italy has a quite strict citizenship law (which is mostly acquired by blood), and the constitution already recognise the traditional family as a cornerstone of the society - the constitution was made mostly by Catholics anyway. There are still things to fix obviously but those are just too much hardcore for the present government.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That does not sound satisfactory to me. I hope activists and the Italian public do their best to put pressure on this new government to pass meaningful, effective, long term reform.

    [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Why do you have faith in plebiscites?

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    What are you referring to? The new Italian government should have a strong enough majority to change the constitution without the need for a referendum.