Some people say alt-right ideas are wrong. What is the information about them being wrong?

submitted by panel30 from self.debatealtright

It seems popular for people to say bad things about "racist" "sexist" "homophobic" etc, "those red-pill MRAs are horrible", "neo-nazis are horrible" etc. Sometimes they have actual information and point to make with it, sometimes they don't. I have also seen people "do it back" like create negative content about whites eg after they have seen negative content about other races.

What I haven't seen is just a simple plain explanation of why it's wrong, without any disparaging attitude. And without any emotionally manipulative stuff. Just simply directly addressing the actual fact points, in a nice and simple and accurate way.

I am interested in this kind of information about some of the ideas associated with the alt right if anyone would like to give some. I am interested in the information exchange aspect of debate not the adversarial aspect.

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[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Without sounding biased, you wont find the real answer because of WW2.

Before 1945, alt-right views were actually considered "mainstream" views. The allied countries like the U.S and Canada believed just as much about race and social conservatism as did Axis countries like Germany or Japan. But once the Axis was defeated and the United Nations was formed, then all of a sudden, alt-right views were scrubbed away from the public conscious (notice however, that Communism and Far-Leftism never got the same backlash? That is because the Soviet Union had survived and went onto influence global politics after the end of the war).

And we have raw examples of this social metamorphosis happening. Segregation was banned, affirmative action was pushed, immigration shifted from accepting mostly Europeans to importing more Brown and Asian people, Feminism got more intense, Homosexuality & LGBT-ism were being legalized instead of remaining taboos.

So why did "alt-right" views become wrong when most of our ancestors had probably subscribed to it? Because the Axis lost and the winners wanted to go in the complete opposite direction thinking it would make them the eternal good guys.

But of course, this was all delusion. There is no actual science that says all races and genders are equal, or that "systemic racism" is the cause for underachievement and poverty. These were all invented after WW2 and the media did a hell of a job brainwashing the generations who were born in the coming to years to never question this propaganda or at least call them "Nazis" for thinking this far.

Edit: If you also follow American Renaissance, Jared Taylor has spent his life work showing how all the attempts at proving "racial equality" is nothing but quack or snake oil. He has created countless articles/videos on this subject, but perhaps his best one sums it all up in just 13 minutes.

https://www.bitchute.com/video/08ljH9cHPyDc/

Once again, it's an incredible leap of faith to believe evolution could have ever created human beings to be 100% identical to each other, right down to the molecular level. There really is no scientific document that says "If White people just pay reparations, all of Africa will become Space-Age Scientists tomorrow" or "If Men stopped being jerks, Women will finally grow muscles and be able to pick up any Man easily". It's all post-WW2 nonsense that's being taught so people feel warm and cuddly on the inside, unlike that big meanie Mr. Hitler who died 78 years ago.

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks this is helpful. And thank you for the video link.

So it is basically the continuation of the communist/marxist approach we see today? I guess I could just read that stuff and maybe I'd understand what's going on better.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Even when bringing up the Communism influence, it's still interesting to note that old school Socialists were race realists who believed in maintaining the nuclear family and restricting immigration.

The last living relic of this system is arguably North Korea. Citizenship is almost entirely passed by blood. It's completely rare or unheard of to see non-Koreans be given permission to immigrate and join the natives living there. On top of that, North Korea still enjoys higher birth rates

(relative to Capitalist societies) and Homosexuality is never promoted.

What we see in the West today is a much more perverted version of Leftism/Socialism. In which case, Western Leftists want to open up the borders, promote race mixing, promote LGBT-ism, tear apart the nuclear family etc.

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I don't understand your post. We don't think we are wrong. Why would you want us to tell you why other people say we are wrong?

The people that oppose us fall into two camps: propaganized and propagandist.

The propagandized are introduced to the big lie from birth*. They are normal people for the most part. Most are low information types that just want to consume and entertain themselves. The propagandists use cultural manipulation, finance and institutional power to convince the normal people to fall into transhumanist and globalist ideologies that benefit the propagandists. The propagandists don't think of themselves as part of the human race. They are under the perception they deserve to be a ruling class over a unified slave planet. Every goal they have is downstream from their ultimate goal of global government that abolishes competing national laws and national identities.

*The big lie being that seeing racial differences is evil except in the case where you are uplifting historically 'oppressed' races and pushing down historic 'oppressor' races. I'm sure you can guess who those groups are. Another founding myth in the western world is that Hitler was evil and gassed 6-11 million innocent Jews because he wanted to take over the world and kill everyone that wasn't a certain type of German. This is lie of extreme magnitude but it's consider mainstream historical doctrine and therefore is used to protect the very group that is perpetrating all the problems we see in our broken world today.

[–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the reply.

I don't understand your post. We don't think we are wrong. Why would you want us to tell you why other people say we are wrong?

I mostly meant to solicit informative and non-hostile comments from people who think some aspect of alt right viewpoints are wrong, inaccurate, etc. This seemed like the appropriate place since this sub is at least in part meant for that kind of exchange right? I just wanted to do it in a more polite and information-focused way. Maybe I should crosspost somewhere else, does nobody else come to this sub?

I have seen some people on this site post stuff that's more fact based and less hostile, I was hoping for that kind of reply.

I would fit in with "the propagandized," and reading some alt-right things it seemed like some of the things people said were accurate. It was hard to get a fact-based reply when I tried to talk about some of it with people.

But that's also true for a lot of things, like "are vaccines really ok? those people are making a fuss about it and I want to be sure." That's a reasonable question, but people who seem very confident that their answer is so right I seem crazy don't give simple fact-based answers, like they might for any "normal" topic. The moon landing too. Gariepy's video from a while back about that was almost the only one I saw that was just the normal straightforward approach of "well ok, let's take a look at the evidence we have and see what we see."

I know it takes work to do that that not everyone wants to do. It's just that some people who post about this seem so absolutely confident about things, confident enough they justify treating other people badly. And ok, they're certainly not the only ones doing that in politics.

But if someone wanted to give some of it right now I'm interested in the normal straightforward version right now.

[–]DragonerneJesus is white 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you go down this path, you will end up as an alt righter. Everyone who searches for the truth eventually ends up here.

Note that anyone can be an alt righter regardless of ideology, because reality is just reality.

[–][deleted]  (4 children)

[deleted]

    [–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    What is considered "balanced" is totally subjective and based on the dominant social mores of a socoety ina given place in time. Our views were commonplace among white people 50 years ago.

    Globalism/multiculturalism and mass immigration are radical departures from anything in history - yet support for these is supposed to be "balanced" and mainstream.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]cisheteroscumWhite Nationalist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Only in poor, rural US areas where much of the population

      No, the US was 90% white as recently as 1960. The North was always wealthier and whiter than the South was

      Multiculturalism elsewhere in the world - especially in cosmopolitan areas - has been the norm since the big bang

      Utter nonsense. Do you believe that ancient cities in England or France had millions of Africans living in them or something? Not to mention not even 10% of people lived in cities before the Industrial Revolution

      [–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Thanks for the reply. Interesting. What is extreme about it, and what would be more balanced?

      [–]UncleWillard56 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Can't remember where I read or heard it, but the question was, name a civilization that has prospered due to diversity. Being inundated with the word for decades, I brushed it off, but looking back at history, what race/civilization/country ever prospered due to its diversity, and by that I mean diversity of race. None. Any successful civilization in history was successful because they were racially homogenous. I'm not suggesting anything sinister, I'm just stating a fact. There's no practical evidence that racial diversity leads to success. Would we call what we have here in the US successful at this point? We're practically self-segregating culturally.

      [–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Hm. I don't really know enough about history to be able to answer that question myself without some research, but it's an interesting question.

      [–]Fonched 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      There are a lot of ways to answer this question. Many have engaged in debate, or have presented responses to alt-right arguments. For those who don't come up with answers, it may be because they don't know much or go about "don't debate the alt-right" method, because of what they see of this movement, or because of some allegedly shady debate tactics, or because they don't know or care much for what is said.

      [–]panel30[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Thanks for the reply. Sorry if OP isn't very clear.

      I know people have their reasons for debating or not in whatever style they do. I didn't intend to question or challenge that with OP.

      Just asking that if someone does want to, presenting the information in a fairly straightforward way is something I'd like and find helpful right now. Links to previous discussions/information would be welcome too since you mentioned those.

      It's not just the alt-right, it's with a lot of things. "conspiracy" things too. "that sounds strange," "you're bad for thinking that," etc. Sure people can say that if that's what they want to say or how they want to deal with it. But it's also understandable that someone would want just a normal straightforward explanation of why it's wrong.

      [–]DragonerneJesus is white 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      It is wrong because:
      1) It helps white people, which is detrimental to other races, especially jews
      2) It doesn't help jews
      3) Since jews are in power in the west, they suppress the native population and import foreigners to keep their power
      4) Anti semitism is needed for jews in the west to feel the need to move to Israel, which is one of the goals of zionism
      5) It is desirable for nonwhites to move to white countries to get the resources of whites
      6) Reproducing with whites is good for the offspring of nonwhite individuals as they benefit from the white gene pool, ie. IQ, etc.
      7) Homosexuality is good for the parasite causing homosexuality because it increases the spread of the parasite
      8) Usury is good because it transfers wealth from whites to jews
      9) Taxes are good because it is a way to transfer money to nonwhites and it also gives control of a huge portion of whites production wages to the jews.

      And so on

      [–]Fonched 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      That is because of the framing of the "conspiracy" angle. It would be a benefit to have more intellect on this side, but there unfortunately seems to be a loop inbetween people disregarding our ideas and quashing anyone who steps up.