all 18 comments

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

"I think what the FBI is really concerned here with, and I think law enforcement, is that if there is something in there that is truly damaging for the transgender community"

[–]Alienhunter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I think we need to step back and look at various different speculations as to why. In this case based on what I've read of the mannifesto contents, while they've yet to disclose the ideological side of it, I suspect a look at the insane political discourse on reddit or certain discord servers will give you a pretty good idea, namely the genocide angle and get them before they get us mindset. They only encourage that line of thinking by not releasing it so I suspect it's more damaging to the transgender community to keep it under wraps so they can't disavow it and let speculations to its contents continue.

Rather, it looks like the mannifesto contained fairly detailed plans and instructions for attacks. I suspect it reads like a road map for the carrying out of more suicidal terrorist attacks like the school shooting. One can imagine what those might be, I won't give my thoughts as to the details here. Regardless the threat of copycat attacks may be sufficient to warrant unwillingness to release the manifesto.

We may well see a redacted report soon. However I don't think we need to see it to have proof of the terroristic nature that the pro-trans discourse has taken in certain online spaces. The old Tumblr in action had this fairly well covered but these days reddit is so censorious the call out subs are largely banned.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I suspect it reads like a road map for the carrying out of more suicidal terrorist attacks like the school shooting.

I've heard something like this as well. I agree that isn't a great thing to release, or I suspect even what people want to see.

I suspect a look at the insane political discourse on reddit or certain discord servers will give you a pretty good idea, namely the genocide angle and get them before they get us mindset.

Yeah, no doubt. I'm well aware of what this dialogue will sound like, but I don't think the majority of the democratic news consumers have any idea. This is the part I want everyone to see. That this is literally the same rhetoric as the alt-right shooters, and contributed to real violence in this case, it isn't just some virtual ramblings anymore.

People need to stop seeing this as 'pro-trans' vs 'anti-trans', people are so drunk on this identity nonsense that they will greenlight any level of insanity in the name of their little team game. If this can force some people on the left to maybe start thinking about this in a more nuanced way, then I think that is good. It's also fair, the media has done more than their job exposing the harmful alt-right rhetoric, they have actually gone totally overboard and just slam anything they don't like as right-wing extremism, even when it isnt

[–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The trans issues play well into the American right left culture war divide as most issues are, stripped of any nuance and having their arguments boiled down to the lowest common denominator belief of "freedom". Whether that be freedom to do something or freedom not to have something done to you. Doesn't really matter though as either position has become some essentialized and abstracted from what the original issue was that it serves it's purpose well as fodder for the red vs blue propogandizing that takes place each election cycle where the politicians give lip service to the ideas their constituents care about while consistently failing to provide any real benefit to the American people beyond perhaps inadvertently providing the political entertainment industry with all it's material.

I'll always argue that safety and prosperity are more important issues to pursue than freedom because freedom requires both. You can be legally free to do something but if you can't do it safely and lack the means to do it you aren't truly free.

In terms of the trans issue the entire conversation has gotten away from "what is the best approach to ensure the long term happiness and success of people who are struggling with this issue" through the culture war machine to "they're coming for your children!" Whereas where the flavor of that argument is "The Dems are coming to make your kids trans" vs "The Right wants your kids to die!" comes down largely to region and socio-economic status as to which is believed.

Like any good propoganda there are shades of truth to both of the LCD mainstream political opinions. There's a great deal of Leftwing desire to promote inclusivity in ways where they've not fully thought out the social effects of their rather shallow desires to be nice to everyone, we've seen it with bullying in the past where they inadvertently give the kids more ideas of how to bully each other, and there's a great deal of right wing desire to impose a kind of rigid one size fits all approach to problems that might be effective for the majority but likely fails to address issues that will effect minorities severely enough that it will hinder the overall ability to provide societal stability in the long term.

In reality any society is going to need a healthy left and right wing functioning both to innovate new solutions are work out exceptions to policy and to insulate against bad ideas and poorly thought out solutions to problems. Currently both sides absolutely hate each other and act in opposition consistently ostracizing anyone who doesn't go in lockstep with the more ideologically "pure" or "extremist" positions on issues and that greatly hinders anyone's ability to actually properly construct policies that will be stable or even functional.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In terms of the trans issue the entire conversation has gotten away from "what is the best approach to ensure the long term happiness and success of people who are struggling with this issue"

When was the conversation there? It never has been. It's always been how can we use these people to experiment in this science field and how can we make money off people's unhappiness? If the conversation was ever what is the best approach for long-term happiness with a deluded population, the answer is, like all other delusions, to bring them back to self-acceptance.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Several decades ago before social media allowed the cultivation of internet trans groups, before it became an identity issue, and before the LGBTQ+ expansive "queer" political movement.

There's been medical research on it, I think the most interesting would be Blanchard's. There have of course been the delusional mental types and the mad scientist types like John Money as well.

I've never bought fully into the transition as a solution argument but until about a decade ago transition either required you to go visit unscrupulous doctors in Thailand or an extensive amount of psychological evaluations designed to weed out potential detransitioners and ensure the person really knew what they were getting into. Now getting prescribed hormones is a pedestrian effort requiring one only go into the doctor and say "I feel trans" and they get it.

The internet has driven the lion's share of it. No shortage of pro trans chat rooms grooming potential trans patients into passing the psych evals. As well as people whining about how it's so unfair they can't get the medication and surgery right now and insinuating it's somehow a human rights violation to ensure that your patient actually suffers from a condition or whether the treatment is likely to even he effective in any way before you let them procede with permanent and risky lines of treatment.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm well aware of what this dialogue will sound like, but I don't think the majority of the democratic news consumers have any idea. This is the part I want everyone to see. That this is literally the same rhetoric as the alt-right shooters, and contributed to real violence in this case, it isn't just some virtual ramblings anymore.

Wasn't stochastic terrorism the left's new talking point 30 minutes ago?

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The words are new the idea is not. But it's a stupid idea regardless. What happens is that boomers who don't understand the internet think it's all smart people with their computers and then get cognitive dissonance when they start receiving all the death threats and unhinged nonsense that they interpret as radicalization rather than schizos.

There is some degree of crazy radicals who might actually carry stuff out, but for the most part the crazy people are out there and will find any excuse to go be crazy. In the absence of right wing propoganda they'll find left wing propoganda. In the absence of all propoganda they'll listen to the demons in their head instead.

For the most part I don't think there is much use for schizos in political activism, they can't be controlled and will just as soon make you look bad when they eventually turn on you. There's no logical reason to assume that these sorts of threats being made are deliberately engendered by those with political motivations rather than assuming they are simply the unhinged mutterings of shizos.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They probabally think all the other trans will follow suit. Half these people kill themselves anyway. Properly focused, they could make change.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are a socially contagious population - those who follow fashion trends.

[–]Alienhunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a definite possibility.

[–]cant_even 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

afraid of a violent backlash against that protected class of people

...and there's the rub: People's beliefs, lifestyle choices and behaviors do not rise to the level of "immutable characteristics" used to confer 'protected-class' status.

And yes, I've seen the sleazy Wikipedia version adding perceived to the definition of "immutable [characteristic]".

"Perceiving" something that objectively doesn't exist is called a delusion, which is that "community's" defining characteristic.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, is the protected class of people, the most vulnerable people, children? Because angry young adults who resent having to grow up sure are violently backlashing against schools.

[–]Zapped 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I heard that it says she did it to prove there is a need for gun control. Beyond projection.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    No that's correct the Louisville shooter wrote about wanting to encourage gun control by killing a bunch of people. But it's typical insane ramblings and not particularly interesting.

    [–]monkeymagic 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    no that was at the other mass shooting in the last couple months that also occurred at a street address with NOTHING BUT 3s IN IT!!!!!!!

    i’m 100 percent sure the feds didn’t manufacture that manifesto either/also. carry on.

    [–]tyranicaloverlord 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It must be REALLY bad and super anti Trump. probably calls Christians and Republicans NAZIS and wished for them all to die.

    [–]Godknight 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, I'll be a monkey's uncle!