all 79 comments

[–]iamonlyoneman 4 insightful - 9 fun4 insightful - 8 fun5 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

I'm happy for you, or sorry that happend to you. Still not reading all that.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (19 children)

Some Pollock may have said 4 million, but in a google search, every one of the top 10 pages give me a figure of roughly 1 million, so I'd think this is the figure accepted by the establishment. I don't see 4M reported from any media source for Auschwitz

1 million for Auschwitz still seems a bit high, as I suspect the total number of Jews killed in all camps was probably closer to this number than the stated 6 million. Tarrock has suggested the 271K red cross figure for Auschwitz which does seem more plausible.

But I think you are quibbling over semantics here, at least with respect to the numbers. Yes this number is likely exaggerated, but I doubt it matters in terms of how this history is perceived. Do you think anyone would feel substantially different about the holocaust, Jew, Neo-Nazi, or anywhere in between, if the official number were 1, 2, 3, 4, or 6 million? I suspect the precise number here matters very little to most people in terms of how they view this event, and most people probably don't even know what the official number is. Hitler rounded up all the Jews, put them in camps, and a big number died, is what I expect most people would remember if you picked people off the street and asked them what they had been taught

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. I think people would care

I know how stupid this sounds, but i think the 6 million is a magic number.

[–]Canbot 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Hitler tried to expell the jews. When that failed he started the war and put them in camps the same way the US put Japanese people into camps.

Do you have the same perception of American camps? Does anyone talk about the American holocaust of the Japanese? Of course not. The facts do in fact matter.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you have the same perception of American camps?

I never mentioned my own perception, I was talking about your average American.

Of course not. The facts do in fact matter.

Yes, the facts matter, but I doubt this particular number matters much to your average person in terms of their perception of the Nazi's, it's still 'a lot of Jews' whether its 6M, 4M, or 1M. I was pretty clear explaining this, but you keep putting words in my mouth I didn't say.

I never said the facts dont matter, nor did I mention what my own perception was, I am simply saying OTHER facts about this might be more persuasive to people than focusing on a number that doesn't significantly change the narrative.

Apparently they changed the number from 4M to 1M for Auschwitz in 1990. I don't think anyone changed their minds about the holocaust because of this, I didn't even realize this happened.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never mentioned my own perception, I was talking about your average American.

You don't speak for all Americans, you speak for yourself so I asked what your perception was. Replying that you "didn't say yet" to a question is retarded as fuck. It's a question.

Yes, the facts matter, but I doubt this particular number matters much to your average person

After brainwashing people will ignore a lot of facts before changing thier mind. It is far easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled. But that road starts with one fact. The first truth can't change minds but it is the hardest and the most important for people to accept. It shows that there are lies in the official narrative. Why are there lies in the official narrative? What else is a lie? How many lies are there?

[–]stay_hydrated 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Some Pollock may have said 4 million

4 million was the “official” death toll posted on the entrance and taught to school kids up until 1990 when some brave historians threatened to expose the number and it was quietly changed to 1.1 million and the previous 4 million claim memory holed(despite being cited in encyclopedias prior to 1990).

The fact they were off by 3 million yet never changed the 6 million number is yet more evidence that number is also a lie.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Was not aware of this change in the official number, thanks for the info

[–]stay_hydrated 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Correction: It was actually 4 million that was listed on the entrance to Auschwitz and which was taught. I looked it up. For some reason I remember 4.5 million, but it was 4. Jewish and Holocaust industry "scholars" played stupid when the numbers were changed, but some flat out admitted they knew it was a lie and for a decade kept silent about it anyway. They blamed it all on Poles of course, because Jews never lie.

I never heard a plausible explanation of why the death toll being reduced by 3 million never changed the official 6 million number either. One excuse was that the 4 million lie included 3 million polish deaths, but I dont remember more than a handful of Polish deaths being mentioned when I was taught the 4 million number, so it had been implied that the 4 million were mostly Jews. Yet when it was reduced by 3 million no change to the 6 million number was made and people can still be prosecuted in some countries for disputing it.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I've been informed 4M was the official number until 1990, then they changed it. I wasn't aware of this.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

You do know 4 million was for one camp right?There were multiple ones.Nice try though.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

6 million Jews didn't even exist in Europe and Eastern Europe. There was no final solution and there were no gas chambers for people. This is the easiest debate on earth.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

If it's that easy why are you people so scared to debate historians who say the opposite?

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

bring it, i'll debate all of you denier deniers

[–]HanssenBob 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Lmao, it's the other way round. Holocaust deniers are always ready to debate. The traditional enemies of free speech, not so much.

Thanks for playing.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is that why David Irving got his ass kicked when he got into a debate with a Historian

[–]MuskyIndependent 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

4 million is a fantasy propaganda number.

[–]MuskyIndependent 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Some Pollock

Nobody cares about all the dead slavic peoples.

Also the total number of German Jews killed is under 200k according to data I find more believable. I strongly suspect a whole fuckton of war casualties are used to drastically inflate the numbers.

[–]stay_hydrated 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Not just war casualties, just about every Jew in europe that died of any cause from 1938 to 1945 is probably listed as a holocaust victim.

[–]Canbot 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The original covid.

Many jews fled. They are also likely counted as dead.

[–]Circlesbadnews 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Any statistic and dramatic story from any historical event is something I take with a grain of salt. History is written by the winners to malign the losers, the rewritten periodically for ongoing political interests.

[–]Canbot 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You can challenge any other historical fact with any evidence that you can dig up. If you try doing that with the holocaust in most European countries you will go to jail under their holocaust denial laws.

There is also a lot of propaganda slandering anyone who challenges the holocaust in any way, making it social suicide.

[–]Circlesbadnews 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is 100% true and it's the only reason I'm so skeptical about the official narrative of the Holocaust. I'm skeptical of all history, but this one pushes over into full on disbelief because of the threats around not believing.

[–]aaarrgh 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

they're shooting themselves in the foot with this, but somehow they don't realize it (are they stupid?)

[–]jacques1102 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You say that and yet Germany is making it illegal to deny war crimes and genocides in general.Not just the holocaust,it also includes the Holodomor.Guess that too was a hoax. https://www.dw.com/en/germany-criminalizes-denying-war-crimes-genocide/a-63834791

[–]stay_hydrated 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

How many people have been sent to prison for holodomor denial?

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You argued that making it illegal to question something=It never happened.Holodomor denial is illegal is both Ukraine, and now Germany.Funny,you'd think jewish control germany wouldn't make denial illegal.

[–]stay_hydrated 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You argued that making it illegal to question something=It never happened.

No. I didnt argue that. I'm saying it makes it impossible to accurately research such an event.

Holodomor denial is illegal is both Ukraine, and now Germany.

And yet, the established death toll for the Holodomor continually fluctuates, and no one who changes it is prosecuted, while people who question the 6 million number can and I believe have been prosecuted.

Funny,you'd think jewish control germany wouldn't make denial illegal.

Well a mature intelligent democracy with free speech wouldnt necessarily make opposing historical views literally illegal. If someone is wrong you prove them wrong. If a view is way outside the mainstream it shouldnt be taught in history classes, but all people should be taught to think critically and encouraged to question things.

[–]aaarrgh 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It would have been too obvious if they didn't add the holodomor...

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You guys:Why isn't it illegal to question other genocides.Germany:Makes it illegal to question other genocides.Also you guys:Denying the holodomor is clearly another jewish trick.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They are only doing that because everyone was pointing out how those laws prove the holocaust is fake.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What?So germany recognizing other genocides is some how a distraction to cover up the holocaust?You people:Why is it only illegal to question the holocaust and not other genocides?Germany:Passing a law making it illegal to deny genocides and war crimes.Also you:They're only doing that because the holocaust is fake!I swear there's no reasoning with you people.Every time i give you evidence contradicting your claims, you move the goal posts and say the opposite was true.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

None of those laws should exist. No one ever said that they should. Yet that is the basis of your accusation. That's fucking retarded.

So germany recognizing other genocides

They aren't recognizing other genocides. You don't recognize anything by making it illegal to talk about it. What an idiotic spin.

people:Why is it only illegal to question the holocaust and not other genocides?

No one said this. That is a caricature of the argument that is purposefully crafted by you to support your retarded spin. No one ever framed it as "more totalitarian censorship whould be fair".

[–]aaarrgh 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

yes, we have to be very careful with historical 'facts'

[–]filbs111 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The lack of paragraphs is a conspiracy to put people off reading this kind of thing.

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (14 children)

So straight off I've never ever heard of this idea that 4 million Jews died at Auschwitz.

You've just pulled that figure out of your arse.

Are you on drugs right now?

The official figure is indeed closer to 1 million.

So give yourself a round of applause, you agree with the official narrative.

[–]Tarrock 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

The international red cross counted 271k. Almost all dead due to disease and starvation (caused by allies bombing supply lines).

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

How did they count?

[–]jacques1102 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

This myth of a Red Cross document originates with famous Holocaust Denier Richard Harwood in his propaganda book Did Six Million really die, which has not only been disproven several times – among the most famous incidents at the trial of Ernst Zündel – but also by the International Committee of the Red Cross itself.

Harwood is in typical fashion for deniers twisting evidence and words in this case. He cites a document by the International Tracing Service of the Red Cross compiled in response to a query regarding the number of deaths in concentration camps they had so far recorded based on surviving documents from the various camp administrations. Given the practice, as the Nazis themselves described it, that the majority of Jewish prisoners send to camps like Auschwitz or the Reinhard Camps were not even registered in those camps but rather killed immediately upon arrival and that a lot of the documentation of the Nazis was destroyed by the same Nazis before the end of the war – this document was never intended or claimed as numbering all the victims of the Nazi killing spree. Yet Harwood and other deniers ignore this and base their dubious and politically and morally abhorrent claims on the falsification of this document among other things. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0031322X.1978.9969431

[–]stay_hydrated 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

The red cross number is not really believable for the total holocaust death toll. Clearly far more Jews died than a couple hundred thousand given this war killed 80 million people, including 10-13 million Germans and tens of millions of Eastern Europeans, and Jews were the primary enemies of the Nazis. It's really nonsense to believe the Nazis took such great care to prevent Jewish deaths that such a small number were killed.

Having said that, the 6 million number is clearly inflated and I have never heard a credible rationale for how that number was arrived at that didnt include cherry picked statements by Nazis while ignoring countless other statements and evidence, and including sketchy estimates about census figures before and after the war that further cherry picks evidence while ignoring counter evidence and logical explanations for discrepancies.

So tell us how many Jews were killed by the Nazis during the war? I honestly don't claim to know the real death toll. I would guess between 1.5 million and 4.5 million, but I have no firm way of knowing. I only know the supposed methods used to come up with 6 million are far from definitive and leave a ton of wiggle room for manipulation and exaggeration.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you don't know how many jews died but insist that it couldn't of been 6 million?What you ignore is that there were 5 million non jews who were also killed by the nazis as well.People who would have no reason to promote a "jewish lie".there exists today a compiled database of more than three million names of jewish victims of the holocaust, and it may be as high as 4.2 million names in total. The Nazi regime did keep some records on their killings. There exist reports from camp leaders about the average rates of the camps as well as information taken from Adolph Eichmann himself which rests it at roughly the 6 million mark. If you compare this information to postwar census data and the prewar information on total amount of jewish population in specific areas you also end up with a figure ranging from around 5.3 million to 6.2 million. We may never know the exact number thanks to uncertainty of actual jewish population in some areas (for example, stalinist russia) as well as the actions of the Einsatzgruppen, which often killed "subhumans" without doing any paperwork recording the exact numbers. The number may vary wildly but the 6 million figure is the most accurate APPROXIMATION we have based on the given information

sources: Wilhelm Höttl, an SS officer and a Doctor of History, testified at the Nuremberg Trials and Eichmann's trial that at a meeting he had with Eichmann in Budapest in late August 1944, "Eichmann ... told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 (six million) Jews had perished until then – 4,000,000 (four million) in extermination camps and the remaining 2,000,000 (two million) through shooting by the Operations Units and other causes, such as disease, etc. Dawidowicz, Lucy S. (1986). The war against the Jews, 1933–1945. New York: Bantam Books. ISBN 0-553-34302-5.p. 403 Martin Gilbert (2002). The Routledge atlas of the Holocaust, 3rd Ed. London: Routledge. p. 245. ISBN 0-415-28145-8.

[–]stay_hydrated 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

So you don't know how many jews died but insist that it couldn't of been 6 million?

I dont insist it couldnt have been 6 million. It's possible. Just not likely. Unlike you, I'm honest.

What you ignore is that there were 5 million non jews who were also killed by the nazis as well.

I don't know the exact number of this either, and neither do you. The Germans fought a war, they killed a lot of people and had a lot of their people killed. Some of the people they killed were unarmed civilians, and a lot of the Germans killed were unarmed civilians. The exact numbers and manner of deaths of everyone killed I dont know, and neither do you. The issue has been so propagandized that it's extremely difficult to ascertain the exact truth 80 years later. Again, I'm honest about this.

People who would have no reason to promote a "jewish lie".there exists today a compiled database of more than three million names of jewish victims of the holocaust, and it may be as high as 4.2 million names in total.

Actually the people who compiled this list had every reason to promote a lie, and a list of names in and of itself means nothing without evidence proving they were real people and the manner of their deaths.

Your evidence for the 6 million number seems to come from one SS officer who was facing execution and possibly undergoing torture allegedly stating he heard another Nazi SS officer claim 4 million died in camps and 2 million through shooting operations, and this other officer claiming under threat of execution and possibly torture that this was true. You also claim census data supports the 6 million number but the original census figures would have to be accurate and the later census figures would have to account for the massive migration of Jews that undoubtedly happened during the war years and immediately after, the fact after the war many Jews would be reluctant to reveal themselves in a postwar census, the fact birth rates would have plummeted during a time of war and hardship when large numbers of people were detained and segretated, and overall death rates of all causes, including natural causes, would have skyrocketed during the same harsh times. It would also have to account for active soldiers and partisan deaths. That's all a pretty tall order, with a LOT of room for exaggeration and manipulation, especially given the pressure to prove the 6 million number right and the threat of blacklisting and in some cases imprisonment if your numbers didnt arrive at the desired outcome.

[–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

6 million jews and 5 million non jews were killed.Literally no where has that number has changed.What school did you go to where the numbers kept changing?Also where's the evidence the jewish population went up and not down after ww2? https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/holocaust-denial/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/02/09/europes-jewish-population/ I'm giving you several sources and you've given nothing.

[–]stay_hydrated 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

6 million jews and 5 million non jews were killed.Literally no where has that number has changed.

Are you not comprehending what I'm writing? That is literally my point. The Holodomor death toll has continually changed and been revised, even in recent years, while the Holocaust number has not.

Also where's the evidence the jewish population went up and not down after ww2?

I never claimed the Jewish population went up during the war, it most likely decreased for the reasons I mentioned in my comment, in addition to whatever number of deaths occurred from Nazi atrocities. Maybe re-read my comment.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

[–]jet199 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

4 million suffered and died.

Also doesn't say they were 4 million jews.

The Nazis starved 3 million Russian POWs to death in the camps before they started shipping Jews to them. Those people are likely included in that number.

[–]HanssenBob 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You're ignorant.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Brewdabier 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Over 1 million German soldiers were murdered, females age 8 to 80 beaten and raped. Then woman were forced into prestation. US, UK and USSR did this to every German from 1945 to 1950. Now as for the "death camps" (Chełmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz ) they were real, problem is they were not a place where prisoners were killed. They were cremation sites where all the dead of occupied Germany was delivered. tetanus, influenza and tuberculosis was out of control at the time and the only way they thought to prevent the spread was burning the bodies.

    [–]jacques1102 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (26 children)

    Wall of gish gallop text with 0 evidence to back it up?Not surprised.If you have any questions about the holocaust, check out this site. http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html

    [–]MuskyIndependent 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (16 children)

    with 0 evidence to back it up

    That is the problem with the Holocaust, a lack of hard evidence for the claims. "In all, the Germans and their collaborators killed between 120,000 and 180,000 German Jews in the Holocaust, including most of those Jews deported out of Germany." https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/german-jews-during-the-holocaust This source give a slightly higher lower bound than other places, it's just an estimate after all.

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

    Your article only mentions German jews,it says nothing about all the jews that were in other european countries that germany invaded. https://annefrank.freetls.fastly.net/media/filer_public_thumbnails/filer_public/b2/34/b2348d8e-1497-4aa6-9001-cf88546b91b3/afs_jf_kaart_h4_nl.jpg__1536x1536_q85_subsampling-2.jpg

    [–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

    I think 120k sounds reasonable. Those other figures I'd need proof for that doesn't exist because they get into the realm of sounding like ridiculous war propaganda.

    In any case, the Holocaust card has been overplayed. Jews are the only racial supremacists of any concern left and they're only allowed to do this because of that victim card. It's way past time that ends.

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    On what sources?There exists today a compiled database of more than three million names of jewish victims of the holocaust, and it may be as high as 4.2 million names in total. The Nazi regime did keep some records on their killings. There exist reports from camp leaders about the average rates of the camps as well as information taken from Adolph Eichmann himself which rests it at roughly the 6 million mark. If you compare this information to postwar census data and the prewar information on total amount of jewish population in specific areas you also end up with a figure ranging from around 5.3 million to 6.2 million. We may never know the exact number thanks to uncertainty of actual jewish population in some areas (for example, stalinist russia) as well as the actions of the Einsatzgruppen, which often killed "subhumans" without doing any paperwork recording the exact numbers. The number may vary wildly but the 6 million figure is the most accurate APPROXIMATION we have based on the given information

    sources: Wilhelm Höttl, an SS officer and a Doctor of History, testified at the Nuremberg Trials and Eichmann's trial that at a meeting he had with Eichmann in Budapest in late August 1944, "Eichmann ... told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 (six million) Jews had perished until then – 4,000,000 (four million) in extermination camps and the remaining 2,000,000 (two million) through shooting by the Operations Units and other causes, such as disease, etc. Dawidowicz, Lucy S. (1986). The war against the Jews, 1933–1945. New York: Bantam Books. ISBN 0-553-34302-5.p. 403 Martin Gilbert (2002). The Routledge atlas of the Holocaust, 3rd Ed. London: Routledge. p. 245. ISBN 0-415-28145-8.

    [–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

    There exists today a compiled database of more than three million names of jewish victims of the holocaust, and it may be as high as 4.2 million names in total.

    Is there any proof the people named were rounded up and exterminated in concentration camps? My issue is not that you can't produce a list of names.

    The Nazi regime did keep some records on their killings. There exist reports from camp leaders about the average rates of the camps as well as information taken from Adolph Eichmann

    The ones where they're trying to reduce deaths, yeah, seen those. Doesn't speak to your side of things.

    We may never know the exact number thanks to uncertainty of actual jewish population in some areas

    So, 120k is as good a number as any.

    Wilhelm Höttl, an SS officer and a Doctor of History, testified at the Nuremberg Trials and Eichmann's trial that at a meeting he had with Eichmann in Budapest in late August 1944, "Eichmann ... told me that, according to his information, some 6,000,000 (six million) Jews had perished until then

    That's the only source for the 6 million figure. One guy said so.

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    Where are your sources for 120k people?attributed to Eichmann at the Nuremburg Trials. As is clarified in another response, that 6 million figure is merely jewish casualties. Total death toll edges closer to 11 million. Also the name of the group is the Einsatzgruppen. The name means "task force" or "deployment groups" and were a special arm of the Shutzstaffel tasked with carrying out executions, most commonly in newly conquered areas of the ostfront. The official procedure changed from hunter/killer squads to death camps for several reasons, namely efficiency and overall expense but also due to the fact that even these trained and willing killers found it too hard to carry out their duties as time dragged on. Many suffered severe mental strain, horrible nightmares and even physical ailments. Many turned to alcoholism or excessive brutality to cope. There exists a story about Heinrich Himmler that details how even those full of hatred could be affected by seeing their barbarism carried out in person, the story is detailed here and it is very telling: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org/einsatz/himmlerinminsk.html

    [–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

    Where are your sources for 120k people

    Are there multiple people on this account, cause your account already replied regarding the source for that figure.

    Total death toll edges closer to 11 million.

    Hah, you can't prove 6 mil so why not double down. Why stop at 11 million, make it a billion Jews while you're at it.

    There exists a story

    Yeah, a story.

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    Bro you people keep fucking take any sentence and reword it into a strawman.6 million is the total number of jews killed.5M is the non jews who were killed.You do know there were other people who died right?

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    6 million is the total number of jews killed.

    This figure seems highly dubious. The estimate of the total number of Jews in all of Germany in 1933 was 0.5 million, yet supposedly they killed 12x this amount and still had survivors. As others have stated, the Auschwitz death toll was reduced from 4M to 1M in 1990 with no correlating reduction in the 6M figure. I don't know what the real number is, but there is no way that number is right, although I don't think the specific number being different changes anything about the narrative, it was still a lot of Jews rounded up in camps and dead, just not nearly as many as claimed

    https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/germany-jewish-population-in-1933

    [–]MuskyIndependent 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    6 million is the total number of jews killed.

    The point of all of this is that there's not good evidence for that number.

    [–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    😮

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

    Moreover, the Nazi extermination plan was never "let's kill every single Jew immediately". It was killing all Jews eventually. The Jews thought to be permanently unable to work due to sickness or age (in practice it was the majority) were gassed as a rule. But many of them, those able to work, were thought of as a valuable resource for the war economy, especially during the periods of labor shortage.

    Keep using this source that denies the Final Solution, excellent

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

    Way to cherry pick one fucking sentence to try and prove misrepresent the point. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/final-solution-overview

    [–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

    It is not known when the leaders of Nazi Germany definitively decided to implement the "Final Solution."

    🤣 "it was in some dude's journal"

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    It said it isn't known of WHEN they decided to do it, not if they did.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

    No Final Solution, no gassings, no 6 million. What a load of bullshit.

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Repeating the same shit when people have refuting all of this is surly winning people over.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Where's your refutation for '6 million Jews didn't die in WWII'?

    [–]jacques1102 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Bro it's literally the estimation most historians have rounded up based on nazi testimonies,etc . https://www.ilholocaustmuseum.org/holocaust-misconceptions/

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It is best when referencing the total number of victims of the Holocaust to say 6 million Jews and millions of others. All Holocaust organizations are making a united move to adhere to this message, and we must maintain a consistent record as a center of Holocaust education.

    Aka 'we're forced to claim 6 million'

    [–]catfishrising 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    WALL OF TEXT

    At least use paragraphs, sheesh.

    [–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    A common misconsception that is spread by left wing and even "right wing" media ignorant people is that roughly 4 million jews died at Auschwitz.

    Fixed that for you.

    However that is a fallacy.

    Well done for discovering what historians have said for over fifty years. I mean it. You have taken one step towards being less ignorant.

    Auschwitz was not the only extermination camp. And people didn't just die in the extermination camps.

    During the period 1933-1945 the Nazis built and operated sometshing of the order of 44,000 concentration camps. Many of those were set up as temporary detention camps lasting just a few months and then shut down. Some lasted for many years. Auschwitz itself was a massive complex of 40 individual camps that lasted from 1939 to 1945.

    Only six concentration camp complexes (Chełmno, Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka, Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau) were Vernichtungslager ("Extermination Camps"), but that doesn't mean that there were no or few deaths in the other camps.

    Most concentration camps were detention camps or work camps, not extermination camps. Never the less, people still died there: beaten to death, worked to death, tortured to death or executed for "infractions" against the camp rules, starved, died of disease and maltreatment. More people died of malicious neglect than deliberate execution.

    At least one camp, the Theresienstadt concentration camp, was a Potemkin Village fake, set up with cinemas, swimming pools and sports facilities, for the benefit of the visiting Red Cross. When you hear people talking about how great the concentration camps were, they are either talking specifically about Theresienstadt for that short period while the Red Cross was given access, or a handful of other detention camps holding foreign citizens of countries the Nazis did not want to offend.

    Figures accepted by most historians are:

    • Auschwitz II-Birkenau: about 1.1 million murdered.
    • Treblinka: 700,000 to 900,000 murdered.
    • Belzec: 430,000 and 500,000 murdered.
    • Sobibor: 170,000 to 250,000 murdered.
    • Chełmno: 152,000 - 200,000 murdered.
    • Majdanek: 78,000 to 360,000 murdered.

    In addition, there were about 1.3 million murdered by mobile gassing and shooting squads in the Soviet Union, approaching a million who died in Polish ghettos, a quarter of million people with disabilities in German euthanasia programs, and many millions more in other work camps and detention camps all over occupied Europe.

    Of course none of these figures are exact. We will never know the exact number of people murdered, but we can be sure it wasn't a few, and we can be sure they weren't accidental deaths. The best estimate is around 15 million people murdered or died of intentional neglect in total, not including war deaths or unavoidable civilian deaths.

    The gas chambers may be the most horrific of the Nazi extermination program, but it was not even close to the most deadly.

    [–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Fraudulent Soviet evidence was admitted as fact at Nuremberg

    That may or may not be the case, but either way, the fact that many early estimates of deaths (especially those made by the Soviets) were exaggerated has been known by historians for decades, and already accounted for. If we accepted the early, exaggerated figures given by the Soviets, we'd be talking about 20 or 30 million deaths, not 15, and 10 million dead Jews, not 6.

    But we don't. Those early exaggerated figures are irrelevant now.

    Zyklon-B residue was low in the homicidal "gas chambers"

    The amount of cyanide needed to kill an adult man is a tiny fraction of the amount needed to kill insects.

    Fred Luetcher

    He was a very unreliable source.

    You don't need to trust the Soviets. As above, historians have already rejected a lot of Soviet misinformation about the camps.