Do you hate modern western software?

submitted by fschmidt from self.programming

I hate modern western software because it is overcomplicated and adheres to pointless programming ideologies. I believe in making code as simple as possible so that it is readable and reliable.

Because I hate modern software, I have developed my own tools so that I don't have to use modern tools. I wrote my own programming language Luan and my own java library goodjava.

Modern western culture is completely depraved and evil, so its members hate everything that is good. I am looking for other programmers who share my values. Is there anyone here who thinks like I do?

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[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm drifting that way. All I do is unlearn modern shit in favor of 60s UNIX stuff. Have you tried suckless apps? https://suckless.org/

[–]happysmash27 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Same. Sometimes I feel like a change-afraid luddite when a new technology comes along that, like most current computer technology, is horrible, but then I remember how happy I am to switch to metric, learn Esperanto, use weird but fast user interfaces like tiling window managers/compositors (right now I use Sway), learn the command line (where I do most of my computing when I can), etc, and realise that my actual problem with it is that they are making bad changes instead of good ones. I am happy to change if the change brings me benefits in the long run instead of harm.

Speaking of suckless, I really like that software, but do wish it had better Wayland support so I could switch to it. st sounds like it could be pretty cool; my current terminal alacritty uses a ridiculous amount of memory for some reason, which I guess is fine since I have tons of RAM, but it's still pretty annoying for a terminal which is supposed to be simple.

…Actually, this is the first time I've really looked at the Suckless software other than dwm and dmenu (which I actually use in Sway). Farbfeld actually looks pretty interesting and I might use it for simple software I make like my WIP ray tracer that I prefer to use with simpler libraries rather than complex.

ii also seems like a pretty cool irc client. The way it uses files and relies on programs like echo for i/o somewhat reminds me of the recent extremely simple and fast binary-to-text (and text-to-binary) converters I made: https://github.com/happysmash27/bin2txt.

Ooh! I forgot slock was a suckless project! It is definitely my favourite display locker for X11, and I think it's a shame it doesn't support Wayland.

They seem to like C a lot, even writing games in C, and I am often the same. I do wonder if C would be the best choice for a highly modular block game which I want to write, though, but in general, if I am making a program, I will usually write it in C.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

you're hardcore smasher. man now I want to write some C. it's been 20 years since I've touched it.

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What suckless apps do you use? Yes I like unix but I don't see anything on that site that I would use. I mostly do web development.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't use any of them myself, but I see their terminal and their browser getting used on /r/unixporn.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I hate it. Going back to school and I have to use Windows 10, Office365, OSX or whatever Mac's OS is, Adobe Creative Commons for Dreamweaver and PhotoShop, and Ubuntu. And I have an Android smart phone. I used to be an electronics tech, and wanted to move into software, but it's all just overbloated tracking spyware, and web dev is absolutely awful. Windows 10 is literally spyware. Same for Adobe. And OSX. And Android. I feel like I'm in a techno-dystopia and it's pushing me back to using microcontrollers and analog devices to do stuff instead of microprocessor based operating systems and software. It's frustrating.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You can try using some of these: https://tinyapps.org/

Also, you forgot to mention that a lot of modern software is bloatware ...

[–]fschmidt[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Absolutely, bloatware is horrible. I tried to find a good text editor, but everything is bloated. tinyapps seems to be old windows software. I have a Mac.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Never owned a Mac so I have no idea. Look here: https://www.techsupportalert.com/content/best-free-software-mac-os.htm Maybe you'll find something ...

[–]happysmash27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Have you tried old UNIX editors like Vim? Or is that still too bloated?

I personally use Emacs, which is hilariously bloated with all its plugins (it even has built-in games), but it's so old that "bloated" is actually pretty fast even on my phone (using it through the command line in Termux). But, because of the bloat, I would not recommend it to you, as Vim is often seen as a less-bloated competitor. It is way better than a horribly bloated IDE, but still slower and more bloated than most alternative command line editors.

If Vim is too bloated, you could always try something crazy like ed, but ed is stereotypically really, really bad, so I would recommend doing more research to find something better. In general, command line programs, or even programs that are just primarily operated through the command line, are way faster than native GUI programs, so if you can find one that is designed to not be bloated, it will be very non-bloated indeed.

I guess you could also try using Vi (which is probably installed by default, accessible through the terminal). Vim is just an extended version of Vi, so Vi will probably be less bloated.

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't like Vi/Vim. An editor should have a clean simple GUI interface, not a bunch of control codes that I have to remember.

[–]ralph 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I use vim daily at work. You remember the codes as you use them, just as you learn/remember where things are in a GUI. A GUI takes up screen space and also is inefficient to keep switching between keyboard/mouse. So instead you wind up using the keyboard shortcuts that the GUI may or may not advertise. May as well cut out the middleman.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Try these:

[–]SNCA_Furweeb 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Bloatware?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Bloatware is the slang phrase used to describe software that has lots of features and requires considerable disk space and RAM to install and run. As the cost of RAM and disk storage has decreased, there has been a growing trend among software developers to disregard the size of applications and the end result is bloated software."

https://www.webopedia.com/TERM/B/bloatware.html

[–]happysmash27 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, I hate modern bloated, overcomplicated software, and much prefer simpler software that adheres to the UNIX philosophy.

I'm not quite sure what this has to do with software being western, though. I'm also not quite sure what the appeal of Luan is over just using C. Is there some reason I would want to use something based on Java instead?

[–]fschmidt[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Different languages serve different purposes. UNIX Shell is better for the command line than C is, for example. C is for low level programming. Java is for application libraries. Luan is for application programming, particularly web development. I like Java for its purpose (ignoring the horrible later additions to Java).

Modern western culture overcomplicates everything, not just programming. Modern software is just one example of the horrible output of modern western culture.

[–]m68k 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hate today's UX. I don't want an experience, I want a fucking sensible working UI.

[–]C3P0 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Can you offer a side-by-side comparison of western software versus eastern software? I don't think there is any difference.

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Western culture is one culture. The east has many cultures. As one example, I think nginx reflects Russian culture. It is lean and well designed, but not user friendly. The modern west is incapable of producing something like nginx.

[–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's quite possibly one of the most ignorant things I have heard. Undoubtedly spoken by a westerner.

Good luck telling the Quebecois, Mexicans, or Peruvians that their cultures are all the same.

It sounds queer, but the word "western" is supposed to even include European countries such as England, Spain, France, Italy, etc. and even Australia (which is by no means "in the west.")

[–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I looked at the source of nginx. It just looks like a normal C program, include statements, for loops, if conditions, etc.

The word culture typically encases things like music, food, paintings, or literature. (I suppose you could really stretch the meaning to include the artistic implementation of a computer program.)

[–]smart_jackal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It started happening the day they invented neo-marxism around 2000 AD, a strange ideology that forces you to be blind to all the good and wholesome things in life, and see only the thorns and depressions.