Update on My 87-Year Old Father With Covid-19

submitted by coffee_addict from self.whatever

On April 24th, I posted about my dad: https://saidit.net/s/whatever/comments/406m/my_87_year_old_father_has_cornoavirus_i_would/

The TLDR is that he tested positive for COVID-19 twenty days ago. Even though he was a-symptomatic, sixteen days ago, he was forced into a convalescent home against his will. He is being held in isolation, is in severe pain from his chronic conditions, and is being neglected. He is upset he never got sick because he would rather die than continue living like this. My siblings and I are fighting to get him out.

Update: Knowing that he would only be contagious for two weeks, I called the facility on Wednesday, April 22 (Day 3), asking if he could be tested the next day, which would be the two-week mark from exposure. No call back. I called every day after that. No call back. On Monday, April 27, in the late afternoon, I sent an email to the general manager saying that my attorney would be calling first thing in the morning about violating my dad’s civil rights by holding him without a test.

I got a call back from the convalescent home within minutes. The head nurse told me that CDC guidelines said that someone is considered non-contagious if they have gone seven days without symptoms after being tested. So my father could have left on Day 5, but his Assisted Living Facility wouldn’t take him back without a test that said he was negative. She said she wasn’t in a hurry to test him because Coronavirus patients were showing up positive for up to 6 weeks after exposure. She said she would test my dad the next day (April 28), but warned that he may show up positive even though it had been almost a month since he was exposed. She was right. His test came back on Friday, May 1 as positive.

I asked the Assisted Living facility to make an exception, since he was clearly way beyond the contagious window. The nurse at the retirement community told me that CDC guidelines are different for assisted-living facilities than nursing homes, and that the Assisted Living Facility now requires not just one, but two consecutive negative tests, PERIOD.

My dad was tested again yesterday. Even if the test comes on Thursday as negative, he’ll need yet another test done on Friday, and it won’t come back until Wednesday. Best case scenario, he’s trapped for another 9 days... and it’s quite possible the test will show up as positive since it’s only been a month since exposure. He could very well be trapped there for another month.

And remember that the test is for any Coronavirus, not specifically for COVID-19, and common colds are also types of Coronaviruses.

My dad talks daily about wanting to die because he can’t take the isolation and pain (he is overdue for steroid shots in his back, which helps keep his crippling back/leg pain in check). He has psoriasis and is covered in sores because he is currently being prohibited from taking his psoriasis medicine (the drug is an immuno-suppressant). He is not allowed to walk around, and he is has experienced muscle atrophy. He is now more needy and dependent than he was before – and he already was emotionally struggling with being so needy before this all started. He is only getting sponge baths and he feels dirty not having a “real” showed. They haven’t shaved him, and he hates having a beard.

Meanwhile, my dad’s girlfriend has recovered. She was ready to be moved from the hospital to a convalescent home almost a week ago, but they couldn’t find a bed for her until Saturday evening. And that is because there are apparently a lot of people like my dad who are totally healthy, yet are taking up the beds that are needed for the genuinely sick.

I am racked with guilt for siding with the state a year ago when they forced him out of his home and into the Assisted Living Facility. I thought that once my dad adjusted, he would like the Assisted Living Facility and his quality of life would improve with better care. But I was so wrong. I wish I had been respectful and fought the state to let him stay in his home. He wanted to die there, and I was selfish by insisting that he continue to live in pain in a crippled body instead of letting him make his own choice to not live.

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[–][deleted]  (5 children)

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    [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

    Remember, these tests are showing up positive on goats and pau paus. The entire thing is bullshit

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    My understanding is that this test is for any Coronavirus, and common colds are Coronaviruses. It's quite possible that my dad has basically been imprisoned for having a common cold. edit: it is also possible that someone with a common cold sneezed on the papaya and that goats carry common coronaviruses, too. I mean, COVID-19 came from a bat and bird-flu came from birds, so it is likely that goats carry something in that family.

    [–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Also, which test are they using? And if it's the antibody test do they know the difference between IGg and IGm?

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I don't know which test they are using, but I am 100% certain it is not an antibody test.

    [–]LarrySwinger2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I love how I can still distinguish this from a bot comment.

    [–]FormosaOolong 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    I'm sorry to hear this, coffee_addict. This must be so difficult for both of you. Please don't be hard on yourself, you thought you were making the best decision for him last year, and could never have foreseen this absurd and incomprehensible circumstance. I'm not sure how the facility withholding his pain medication or not getting him showered is serving anyone, and doesn't qualify as medical neglect? "Because virus" is not an excuse for needlessly removing a person's dignity and quality of life. Your phantom lawyer might come in handy for these things as well....

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

    Thank you for your kind words.... To clarify... he is not allowed to have a cortisone shot to control pain because it is an "elective procedure" done in a doctor's office. He does have pain pills, but they don't work and he hates that "loopy" feeling they give him. My siblings and I have been debating lawyer threatening to get him back into the Assisted Living Facility, but we fear that if they have a break-out, my dad will be blamed and the facility would go after us. The convalescent home really is trying their best, but they have a lot of limiting factors because of the ridiculous rules that surround COVID-19 patients.

    [–]FormosaOolong 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well, I still don't comprehend how someone's chosen form of pain relief, that improves their QoL without altering their cognitive abilities, can be considered "elective." I HATE the lack of sovereignty over one's own person in the medical system, which is even moreso if you are old. Hugs to you and your Dad, and may this resolve quickly!

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    Wouldn't it be better to keep him at home with you or hire nursing help so he could live separately from a bunch of vulnerable people? I understand you're mad about bad things happening but trying to force the facility to do something they don't think is safe doesn't sound like the right way to deal with it, and there are other things you could do.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    The convalescent home will allow us to take him home. I talked to his social worker, who said that she can make a special exception that he will not lose his benefits if we take him home temporarily. The problem is logistics. He is a 200-lb four month old infant in terms of his abilities to do things. He needs to be in a one-story home with no steps at all (he can't do steps), and he needs all kinds of special equipment in order to deal with him -- bed rails, potty chair, walker (he could take a few steps with a walker prior to the convalescent home, but he unlikely can't walk at all anymore due to muscle atrophy), wheel chair, stand up shower equipped with hand holds and detachable shower head, lift chair, special straps to help get him in and out of bed in addition to the bed rails... and there is much more. It's a long and expensive list of equipment to buy, especially for a temporary living situation. He is way too much work for me and my sister, especially because we have kids of our own and are homeschooling. The social worker said normally they would pay for someone to come and help us, but they will not send a helper for someone who is COVID-19 positive... they don't want to put the worker at risk. And those in-home care workers cost $30 an hour, so we can't really afford it.

    Also, want to add that I am not MAD, I am FRUSTRATED. I get that everyone is doing their best in an unprecedented situation. And hopefully, you are starting to see why my dad doesn't want to live like this anymore. He hates being so needy. He hates that he can't dress/undress himself. He hates wearing diapers. He hates not being able to get in and out of bed alone. He feels like this is not quality of life and doesn't understand why the state is forcing him to live like this "for his own protection."

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This kind of thing is coming to all of us that live long, and living to be 87 is pretty cool in itself, what really sucks is being that old, in chrinic pain, during this cornavirus where you can't get needed pain care, which I say is essential as fuck.

    [–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Reading all this it does somewhat sound like everyone is doing the best they can. And that your father is NOT being just thrown to the street because he's positive, which is good.

    Really, this story seems to me more like it's about end of life stuff and the covid aspect of it just isn't that relevant. Is he unable to choose death right now if that's what he actually wants?

    It's a little confusing. It sounds like you could make it work if you had to, it's just a huge amount of trouble and would require sacrificing other things. You could side-hustle, or ask for donations of labor, time, or equipment, or give up things that aren't bare absolute life necessities. You're just as capable as I am of ideating about possible solutions in your situation that don't involve suing the place for doing what they think is right -- which you apparently have the time, energy, and money to do. If you haven't even been doing as much as your sister's doing presumably it should be pretty easy to take up at least a little bit of the work. It just seems like you aren't being completely honest here about what you could do and how much you're willing to try to push off onto others at their expense and risk. I don't mean to be mean or whatever, I get that this is a difficult situation, but I don't think I'm doing anyone any favors by leaving it unsaid and uncommented on here.

    Again, this really seems like it's about, as you've said, end-of-life autonomy and the option to choose to die.

    And again, I don't mean to be callous, but it seems suspect at this time. In a situation that is primarily extremely personal to you, your family, your dad, you've done a HUGE amount of generalizing, basically using this extremely personal story as some sort of advocacy for killing all old people. That is extremely disturbing and makes me question the motives of the post, especially when it's so comfortably in line with all the other ones people seem to be posting here about covid.

    If you're really here honestly, I hope you take some time to personally come to terms with what's going on with your father's situation and your role in it. I think that's primarily what's needed here -- the solution for your family will emerge when you can be fully bluntly honest with yourself about the reality of his situation. Maybe having a heart-to-heart with your sister would help.

    If you're not here in good faith, fuck you, and you and all of yours will be haunted by this until the end of your line unless and until you make restitution, if you're doing it to try to kill our elders and our people.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    The reason I posted this is because I wanted to start a discussion about old people's rights. Currently, old people have no sovereignty. In his state, assisted suicide is illegal, and the state won't let him do anything risky that would allow his life to end. And in their zealousness to protect him from this virus, they have destroyed the tiny remaining bits of quality of life had left. Is forcing someone to live in extreme pain and isolation really "for their own protection?" Especially when they no longer desire to be alive?

    I appreciate you opening the door to a calm and rational discussion. I was my dad's primary caregiver for 7 years. My sister took over last year because I had a breakdown because I just couldn't do it anymore. Is it moral for me and my sister to sacrifice devoting time and energy to our husbands/children for our father? Should we rent a home that is suitable for my dad to live in and live partly with our own families and partly with him? Should we not help our kids keep up with their school work so we can change my dad's diapers and meet all of his others needs? Should we sacrifice our own ability to retire someday by spending every penny we have on his care now? Clearly, you have never been a caregiver of a very sick person and have no idea the extreme amount of physical and emotional sacrifice the caregiving job is. Anyone who chooses that for a career is an angel.

    What do you think I said that indicates I am advocating "for killing old people?" I would like a cut/paste of whatever gave you that impression. I have a feeling you have misread what I have written. If not, maybe I could clarify, because I am not advocating "killing" old people, I am advocating that they be allowed to live as they see fit, even if it means that they risk dying. He never should have been forced from his home by the state in the first place. I am certain he would have fallen and died shortly after being released from the hospital, but it is how he wanted to die. And now that he's in Assisted Living, he's trapped in a system he never wanted to be a part of, living a life he doesn't want to live anymore.

    I find it silly that you have decided that the reason this COVID situation sucks for my dad is because I am not bluntly honest with myself about the reality of my dad's situation. It sounds a bit unhinged, and I would like you to elaborate on what exactly you meant.

    [–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Well it certainly changes my perception of the situation to know you were already his primary carer for 7 years. But I think my concerns with your being willing to offload risks onto others here, like those at the assisted living facility that don't want to take him back, still stand. But not your being willing to offload risk or something onto your sister, it's the opposite if anything since you've been caring for him for longer and at higher burden than she has. It's ok to say no and expect people to do their part too, but it's not ok to demand people take on risk.

    I don't think old people should live in care-homes, personally. I think it's the responsibility of the family to take care of them. I think families should be planning for this way ahead of time. It seems strange the way we do it right now, to me. I guess it could be worse, maybe there's less elder abuse in a managed facility than there would be in domestic situations, idk, but it seems a little strange to me that this is the way we're dealing with this reality of the cycle of life.

    I find it silly that you have decided that the reason this COVID situation sucks for my dad is because I am not bluntly honest with myself about the reality of my dad's situation. It sounds a bit unhinged, and I would like you to elaborate on what exactly you meant.

    Lol! "Unhinged" because I called you out!! This is why nobody wants to hold people accountable when they do actual wrong stuff, and why horrible things just slide every day. The costs can be very high, if this weren't anonymously on the internet and someone saying this sort of stuff had significant influence in my life. Nooooo thanks. And I'm not interested in being influenced by orders from anyone, certainly not you.

    From your first post:

    The majority of people dying are over 80, and I am guessing that my dad and his girlfriend aren’t the only old people who are ready to go. Was saving them worth destroying our economy over?

    "I am guessing my dad and his girlfriend aren't the only old people who are ready to go" "was saving them [worth it]"? This is pretty clear advocation for killing old people. Not harshly phrased, but not really ambiguous either.

    (nevermind that it's not only old people that are dying, and that we still don't know the long-term effects of the infection, like its closest relative SARS1 does.)

    I am racked with guilt for siding with the state a year ago when they forced him out of his home and into the Assisted Living Facility. I thought that once my dad adjusted, he would like the Assisted Living Facility and his quality of life would improve with better care. But I was so wrong. I wish I had been respectful and fought the state to let him stay in his home. He wanted to die there, and I was selfish by insisting that he continue to live in pain in a crippled body instead of letting him make his own choice to not live.

    This is what makes me think this is essentially a personal problem. Granted, it sounded from this like you had more of a role in making this situation the reality than maybe you did (how much did it matter what you did?), because it was a state policy that took him out of his home.

    And looking at it again, your account is brand new for this topic in particular. Why post to SaidIt? Why post this at all? Is it real? Why does it line up so much with the other propaganda being posted here? Why connect this story to Covid and to what the policy should be for literally anyone else aside from your personal family situation? Why is the post so heavily tied to covid, and so un-tied to discussion about assisted suicide legality? That's why it reads like propaganda, because you do seem to connect it, and you seem to support the "haha covid's all a hoax let's reopen no there's no real risk nevermind anyone who might get hurt by it they're just wrong" line of argument. Which is IRRELEVANT to to the issue of your father's sovereignty and desire to die.

    IF you're real and here in good faith and sincere and all that (If you're not you've already heard what I have to say): Yes, you were advocating killing old people, please own up to it. And you were trying to put others at risk by attempting to make the facility take your father against their wishes, please own up to that too. And maybe accept that you feel guilty about your Dad's situation, and that the loss of his sovereignty and how it's impacted him isn't really related to the current crisis, which has only served to highlight a problem that was already there long before. And it sounds like you're still minimizing the costs to others. The high cost of taking care of your father has to fall on SOMEONE, whether or not it's a high cost. I'm sorry you're going through this but please stay focused on the issues at hand for you and don't use them to advocate for putting others at risk.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    "Yes, you were advocating killing old people, please own up to it. " We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think giving the old person an option to live their life the way they want, even if it risks their own health, is humane. You see it as murder. Fine. You are entitled to your perspective, as I am entitled to mine.

    "And you were trying to put others at risk by attempting to make the facility take your father against their wishes, please own up to that too." Please copy and paste where you think I wrote this. I think you have mis-read what I wrote. What I said was we considered it and realized that was a bad idea.

    "And maybe accept that you feel guilty about your Dad's situation, and that the loss of his sovereignty and how it's impacted him isn't really related to the current crisis, which has only served to highlight a problem that was already there long before." DING DING DING! I am trying to highlight how the system is broken and doesn't necessarily protect people in a way they want to be protected.

    "And it sounds like you're still minimizing the costs to others. The high cost of taking care of your father has to fall on SOMEONE, whether or not it's a high cost." What does that mean?????????

    "Why post to SaidIt? Why post this at all?" One of my best friends thinks this is a discussion we need to have as a society and she pushed me to post this. And I like SaidIt. It's my favorite social media site. Obviously, I am violating all kinds of HIPPA laws for my dad and his girlfriend, so I have to post it anonymously.

    "Why is the post so heavily tied to covid, and so un-tied to discussion about assisted suicide legality?" It's not ONLY about assisted suicide, it is about the sovereignty and rights of old people. The horrible, horrible situation that my dad is living through right now is a direct result of the state forcing him into Assisted Living against his will. I want to highlight how much he is suffering and deteriorating in a situation that is supposed to be for his own protection. I am not mad at either the Assisted Living or Convalescent Homes. Both are doing their very best, but they are seriously restrained in their ability to properly care for him because of these "protections."

    "haha covid's all a hoax let's reopen no there's no real risk nevermind anyone who might get hurt by it they're just wrong" line of argument." I already said very clearly in the comments what I think of the situation. I will copy and paste here: "I don't know what to think about the virus itself, and I certainly agree that the severity of the virus/pandemic situation has been wildly overblown. They have taken away our civil liberties, put millions of people into permeant poverty, permanently closed many small businesses while making oligarchies like Amazon more powerful, devalued the dollar so even those of us still working have less purchasing power, and given away billions of dollars in tax funds to businesses that didn't need it/had a long history of irresponsible spending."

    "I don't think old people should live in care-homes, personally. I think it's the responsibility of the family to take care of them." I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the state of Nevada disagrees with you on that one. They believe that once old people get to a certain point of deterioration, they MUST be in a facility.

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I don't have much time to reply more, sorry. I feel I've mostly said my piece.

    "Yes, you were advocating killing old people, please own up to it. " We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I think giving the old person an option to live their life the way they want, even if it risks their own health, is humane.

    I didn't mean about assisted suicide. (I think people need to stop hyping death up so much, it just makes it so confusing. WE ALL DIE. It's fine, it's normal, it's a beautiful part of life like any other. We should feel free to choose a good death.)

    I meant about the part I quoted from your first post:

    The majority of people dying are over 80, and I am guessing that my dad and his girlfriend aren’t the only old people who are ready to go. Was saving them worth destroying our economy over?

    "[in Nevada] once old people get to a certain point of deterioration, they MUST be in a facility."

    They can't be helped at home by qualified people? I guess I didn't realize that, though I ought to have been able to extrapolate it from the other content in your post.

    And again, still, "Why is the post so heavily tied to covid"? What's the point of connecting this post about sovreignty in old age to covid, unless you're trying to make a post about covid too?

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I know, this has gotten time consuming. My son keeps asking why I keep taking school work breaks to type on the computer!

    So for clarification on this: "The majority of people dying are over 80, and I am guessing that my dad and his girlfriend aren’t the only old people who are ready to go. Was saving them worth destroying our economy over?" I don't want to make it seem like I was advocating deliberately letting people in facilities get sick with coronavirus. I wish the government had thought things through better before putting regulations in place. In my mind, they could have thought through more make-sense solutions in order to keep the economy going. For example, the virus spreads most indoors, especially on public transit. I think the government should have immediately set up hand washing stations outside of buildings/public transit stops and required that everyone wash their hands before entering a public building/transit and wear a mask while inside. I feel like all retail stores should have been allowed to fill orders called in/ordered online and people could pick them up, much like take-away food,rather than shutting them down altogether. The excuse for crashing the economy and throwing millions of people into permanent poverty was to "save lives," But the lives they are saving is mostly of those who were going to die soon anyway. I guess what I am saying is it wasn't worth destroying the entire economy to save the lives of the elderly; that more make-sense solutions should have been implemented.

    As for the rules of living in home: If my sister or I had the "right" kind of home (one story, modified for a handicapped person with wide doors, walk in shower with no step, etc) and we could afford to pay for 24 hour live-in care (which runs about $10,000 per month), NV would have let him live in our home. But neither of us had the right home or budget to allow for that. I am pretty sure CA has similar rules, too, but I can't speak for any other state.

    [–]charles 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Oh man, your poor dad. I hope this period of struggle ends soon in the best possible way.

    Where are you that hte state is doing this? This is so fucked up that they can do this.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nevada was the state that forced him into Assisted Living. But we chose a facility in AZ, near my sister, so she could take care of him. The Assisted Living Facility does the basics, but she still manages his doctor care, takes him to all the doctor appointments, and goes above and beyond the basic care the Assisted Living Facility offers. Edit: my sister told me that the AZ lock-down is supposed to end on May 15 and only 10 people have died of COVID-19 in AZ.

    [–]Robin 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    I spend too long reading through statistics and trying to pick out lies from truth. It feels good to read something written from the heart without a hidden agenda, and to get a glimpse behind the numbers to hear what this has meant to you personally.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Thank you! I posted this because I feel like we need to broaden the conversation about rights vs risk, particularly for the elderly. My dad has no rights anymore simply because he is old. I now think he should have the right to live -- or not live -- the way he wants to. I feel terrible that wasn't my mindset a year ago when he was first forced to Assisted Living. Edit: I guess what I am trying to express is that we need to demand a re-evaluation of the definition of what "for your own protection" means, and who gets to make that determination.

    [–]FormosaOolong 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I guess what I am trying to express is that we need to demand a re-evaluation of the definition of what "for your own protection" means, and who gets to make that determination.

    I could not agree more emphatically with this! "for your own good" has been the mantra of every abuser ever.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You are 100% right on the money with that comment.

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear that, it sounds tough. I wonder if he could get another way. Seems like the attorney thing worked though.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    The attorney threat worked for getting someone to talk to me and explain what was going on. It's crazy it took a threat of legal action to get the facilities to explain what they were doing to/for my father and why.

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yes that is crazy. It reminds me of people who are stuck in jail cells and somehow get completely ignored by the police for days on end. One kid in california had to drink his own piss to survive because they weren't giving him any water for 6 days. Things like this make me sick.

    [–]RuckFeddit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    shit this is horrible, sorry man

    [–]Crad 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    This sounds like a psycho horror movie plot. Can you contact some news agency and tell them what's going on? Given that you have enough proof to show of course, this should be investigated if you believe he's absolutely being mishandled.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I actually hadn't thought about that. But given that the media is all about pushing the "Coronavirus is dangerous and we must protect the vulnerable," I can't see them wanting to cover my dad's story. edit: The reason my dad's being mishandled is because of fear. Everyone is in a panic and they are trying to look like they are protecting him and the general public. The guidelines that have been enacted (isolation, which is how they punish prisoners due to the negative psychological consequences, not letting him go to the doctor for a pain shot, not letting him get out of bed, which is causing muscle atrophy, not letting him take his psoriasis drugs, causing sores all over his body, etc) are doing more harm than good. The convalescent and assisted living facilities are simply "following the guidelines." I guess we need to demand a re-evaluation of the definition of what "for your own protection" means, and who gets to make that determination.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yes a lot of the media is that way but isn't Fox the opposite?

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I honestly don't know. I gave up on main stream news years ago, and I figure out what MSM is saying from my friends/family who parrot back what their favored news station told them to think. Now that you mention it, now that we are in lock-down and I am not dealing with many people.... I don't think any of them are Fox fans.

    [–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    While his situation is bad I don't see how you can be so callous about the safety of all the other people at the assisted care facility. They also have a right not to be put at risk, and their lives are on the line here. Just because your father was able to handle the virus well does not mean they would be able to, and it does not mean your father is not contagious. Those guidelines are in place precisely because people like you don't give a fuck about anyone else. All you are concerned about is your father and his needs; but of course, not enough to find alternative solutions.

    If he is testing positive he should not be going back. It doesn't matter if you think it is safe. You don't know what you are talking about and are extremely biased.

    [–]Tom_BombadilBombadildo 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    This panic is a hoax.

    The death rate is less than the flu.

    This is an intentional PsyOp, and innocent people are suffering.

    https://153news.net/watch_video.php?v=39445UWMG7UK

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I don't know what to think about the virus itself, and I certainly agree that the severity of the virus/pandemic situation has been wildly overblown. They have taken away our civil liberties, put millions of people into permeant poverty, permanently closed many small businesses while making oligarchies like Amazon more powerful, devalued the dollar so even those of us still working have less purchasing power, and given away billions of dollars in tax funds to businesses that didn't need it/had a long history of irresponsible spending. All to prolong the lives of mostly old people, many of whom are like my dad and were ready to die before the pandemic ever began.

    [–]Tom_BombadilBombadildo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    They have taken away our civil liberties, put millions of people into permeant poverty, permanently closed many small businesses while making oligarchies like Amazon more powerful, devalued the dollar so even those of us still working have less purchasing power, and given away billions of dollars in tax funds to businesses that didn't need it/had a long history of irresponsible spending.

    Not according to Gov Cuomo... He's claiming that this all voluntary. :-/

    GOVERNOR CUOMO'S SHOCKING REVELATION: EVERYTHING IN LOCKDOWN IS VOLUNTARY!

    Each and every politician who supported the quarantines should be personally sued for this plandemic.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    Canbot, Show me some medical studies to support your opinion that my father is still contagious. I formed my viewpoint about his no longer being contagious from the CDC guidelines as they were presented to me by the convalescent home. If you have information that contradicts the CDC/convalescent home, please send it.

    [–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    It's the CDC guidelines that say he can't go back. And I would bet you would purposfully misinterpret any guidelines in a way as to get the results you want.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Once again, if you SAY it's CDC guidelines and don't provide proof, all you are doing is spouting propaganda. If what you are saying is factual, you will be able to find the source of this fact. You are deliberately attempting to make me look like some bad guy bully because I am citing accurate CDC information and all you have is propaganda. I DARE YOU to prove me wrong with SOURCED FACTS.

    The Assisted Living Facility is a chain. They have gone over and above CDC guidelines by a wide margin. And I totally understand why: the tests have proven to be inaccurate, the info out there is conflicting and seems to change daily, and without accurate tests/consistent info, they are terrified of a break-out in one of their facilities and being put out of business. They are erring in the side of caution to the extreme.

    [–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    The nurse at the retirement community told me that CDC guidelines are different for assisted-living facilities than nursing homes, and that the Assisted Living Facility now requires not just one, but two consecutive negative tests, PERIOD.

    You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Further confirming that I am 100% on the money about your character.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Smearing my character does not justify your lack of reading comprehension skills. Re-read the sentence. It says the nurse at the assisted living facility didn't specify what her guidelines are, she simply claimed they were DIFFERENT. Then she said that the ASSISTED LIVING FACILITY now requires two tests. The nurse never actually claimed the CDC requires two tests, though she attempted to imply it with the preface that the guidelines were not the same for convalescent and nursing.

    And I am still waiting for you to cough up some verified facts, buddy. Don't even bother to play these propaganda games with me anymore. Bring some FACTS to the table before you comment again.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    Thank you for sharing this.

    I am racked with guilt for siding with the state a year ago when they forced him out of his home and into the Assisted Living Facility.

    To me, this is the real takeaway here. And it helps me understand why my grandmother fights so hard to keep living at home even though it's getting very difficult for her. I'm more grateful for all the tech like emergency alert buttons we have to help people continue living at home.

    Knowing that he would only be contagious for two weeks

    I don't think this is known? What?

    the Assisted Living Facility now requires not just one, but two consecutive negative tests

    Very glad to hear they're at least trying to take this seriously, I would be outraged if my relatives facilities were taking people in that put them at risk! False negatives are not uncommon with these tests. There have already been cases where people tested negative more than twice only to find out they were still infected.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    My dad had one of those life alert things. He had two ER runs where someone found him on the ground, wearing the necklace, button not pushed. The second time he almost died, and that was the turning point when the state intervened.

    The two-weeks contagious period was my understanding when my dad went in. The convalescent home says the CDC guidelines is people are only contagious for one week when someone is a-symptomatic (as my dad is).

    I think much of the confusion surrounding the testing is the fact that is a test for any coronavirus strain, not specifically the Covid-19 strain.

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    My dad had one of those life alert things. He had two ER runs where someone found him on the ground, wearing the necklace, button not pushed.

    why wasn't it pushed? This is troubling for someone who thought those things were helpful.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The first time was dementia. He forgot he had it on. :( The second time he was unconscious. They have life alerts now with motion sensors that automatically call 911 when they detect a fall. We were looking into getting one when the state intervened.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    I think they know people are contagious much longer, maybe forever, but don't want to put that in public statements because it will lead to mass panic.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

    No, once you have antibodies, you are no longer contagious. There was a study about it in Nature Medicine Journal: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0897-1.pdf

    FYI: The antibodies making you unable to carry/spread a disease is why vaccines work for creating herd immunity. With all the talk of a COVID-19 vaccine coming, it stands to reason that Science wouldn't be going down the vaccine road if people were still contagious once they have antibodies.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    first thought, that is written by a bunch of chinese names. not to be trusted.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Is this one better? https://summit.news/2020/04/29/who-flip-flops-now-endorses-swedens-no-lockdown-policy/

    My take on the article is that WHO wouldn't endorse Sweden's approach if natural herd immunity were not possible. And herd immunity comes from developing antibodies; once those antibodies are developed in your own body, you are no longer a carrier for that virus.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    like thta says, I think sweden self regulated and stayed in place voluntarily, they're smart people.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    They did have some ugly outbreaks in a few nursing homes, but so did the US despite the ultra-draconian measures. Most of the people dying world-wide are over 80 with underlying medical conditions... maybe Mother Nature didn't intend for people to live so long and dying in a few days of COVID is more merciful than living a life devoid of quality?

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    yeah hard to have a lockdown in a nurding home. that is where people are close together, as opposed to being in your own home with minimum contact with others

    people could live longer than 80 but yeah probably old age like that is a thing of the past now with this corona. But also people being 50, 60 and 70 which sucks. And many people have herpes which is a reason for dying young from corona. It attacks immune system and some estimates say 80% of americans have it.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    That is really interesting about the herpes connection. I also heard that people infected with herpes are more prone to migraines. The reason you can't keep it from nursing homes even with crazy draconian measures is because all these old, sick people have many essential doctor appointments. It is the only thing my dad's Assisted Living Facility would let anyone out of their rooms for once the lockdown started in mid-March. The doctors/nurses/office staff are the ones most exposed and the ones spreading it around the most... the doctor/nurse HAS to get very close to you to take your blood pressure, listen to your lungs, and all the other standard things done in order to properly check you out. My dad's girlfriend got it from the one and only time she went to the doctor. :( She recovered, though, and she is 83.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    My take is that his 87 YO dad has a girlfriend. That's awesome. There's no keeping this guy down.

    Sue the hell out of that facility, starting now. They simply want to collect the Covid-19 payout money, along with his presence making their stats look better.

    [–]coffee_addict[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    My dad has always been a ladies man. I thought he'd slow down in his old age, and he has, but not much... ;) The convalescent home is the one collecting the $ right now, and they don't want to keep him. They need his bed for genuinely sick people. Since he's in a COVID wing, he will be replaced with another equally lucrative COVID patient.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It is so upsetting to hear that people have decided that the best use of our entire time and resources as a planet are best served to victimize a sick man and to deprive him of comfort, civil liberties and freedom. This world is truly under siege. At least your dad is very lucky to have someone like you to stand up for him, that silver lining shines bright! Hope he's doing better now.

    Don't be too hard on yourself, you tried your best and it sounds like you're trying your best now.