all 33 comments

[–]magnora7[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

tl;dr: I think the protests are being mischaracterized as "BLM protests" by the media. They do this with the intent to keep people racially divided, instead of unifying to fix a problem of unchecked police misconduct that affects all Americans.

[–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I totally agree with this. They love the divides, especially the racial divide. Police misconduct is a symptom of a much greater disease, yet it urgently needs addressing, perhaps moreso right now than the pathology behind it.

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Exactly. As an American we're 50x more likely to be killed by police, and if you're black put another 2.5x on top of that. Yet the conversation is all about the 2.5x, which definitely does suck no question there, but what about the 50x?! And the 50x is so much more solvable too because it affects everyone, so there's no "natural" divide and conquer, but that's the exact reason things are so constantly portrayed only in racial terms by the media.

[–]Chipit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Blacks are far, far more likely to be killed by their own people than by any police officer. See http://heyjackass.com/ for what it looks like in a major US city. The only number on that whole page that's in single digits? That's what they identify as the problem?

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why compare the rate for an entire populace with the rate of a selected group who is hired to protect people? They kill 500+ white people too every year you know... so it's not like this police misconduct problem doesn't affect white people as well.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, human misconduct also affects one hundred percent of the population. The cops have to do the hard work and barely get credit when nothing goes wrong.

[–]RuckFeddit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm still on the fence because on the one hand police violence and violence in general is probably the most serious problem in the US at the moment. On the other hand to break this down into something racial when the science isn't on your side is moronic... BUT if this is solely the actions of the media then I can understand. All I'm seeing for the most part is people complaining about racial issues that don't exist, but I guess this is the media presenting cherry-picked and controlled opposition to divide and conquer. That being said, "more liberal" friends of mine would rather give me the talking points about BLM than actually talk about the real issue.

[–]VantaFount 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Two days ago I saw a list of five demands that made a lot of sense, to me.
https://i.redd.it/vm3jul1anw251.jpg

[–]Chipit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

These are so vague as to be un-fulfillable. Which is the entire idea, I'm sure.

[–]Canbot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Besides the Absolute Necessity one they are all very specific.

What part of "Repeal section 1983 qualified immunity" is vague or unfulfillable?

[–]Chipit 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Look, you can't pander to these people. When you give in to their demands, they just get angrier and move the goalposts. They aren't here to have an honest discussion. These are revolutionaries. They want us all dead or in gulags.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wherever this came from it is nothing like the retarded demands BLM made. This is nothing like the retarded shit Antifa puts out. This is a legit request, and I fully support it. The riots may have been usurped by BLM and Antifa to push the Democrat agenda, but that does not change the fact that police misconduct does go unpunished too often. There are too many bad cops getting away with being psychopaths and abusing the badge. Something needs to be done. I would add taking away ticket revenue from police departments so they stop giving out frivolous tickets to generate income. We deserve better police. There is no them here.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Municipalities are dependent on that income from fines. If they stopped ticketing, there would be layoffs and city services curtailed.

[–]Canbot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They shouldn't be so bloated that they need to rob people to pay themselves. There absolutely should be layoffs. Ticket revenue should not be a work around for the people not voting for your budget increase.

[–]Chipit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is the exact same rhetoric spouted by small-government conservatives. You're dangerously close to being a nazi, and have definitely entered the basket of deplorables.

[–]FormosaOolong 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, this would be an excellent place to start.

[–]blowininthewind 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

doesn't that reminds you of something

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The protesters themselves seem quite clearly to have a racial view about all of this. It's not about mere police misconduct.

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Which protesters? The ones they show on the news?

The livestreams I watched, people were very unified for the most part, of all races

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The rallying cry for these protests is 'Black Lives Matter'. The posters they have, the chants they have, use that slogan. Every company offering support to the movement is explicitly talking about blacks.

It's not simple aracial police misconduct concerns.

[–]magnora7[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

There's certainly people who are caught up in the BLM thing, sure, but to say "These protests are exclusively BLM protests" is just factually incorrect, yet that's what the media is doing

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

If there's a non-BLM aspect to it, it's absurdly miniscule in comparison.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Maybe it's smaller, maybe it's not, but I don't think it's "absurdly minuscule"

I watched the livestreams of the protests and the riots... 50% of people participating in both were white. I don't think all those 50% of white people are out there to support BLM solely, most are more interested in solving the general problem of justice reform for police misconduct

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't think all those 50% of white people are out there to support BLM solely,

Corporation after corporation - not exactly teeming with blacks at the top - is putting out statements that explicitly say 'Black Lives Matter'. The white people at these protests are using the same chant, saying 'I Can't Breathe', and are citing exclusively black victims of police brutality.

I have no idea how you can think a race-free critique of the police is playing a substantial role in any of this.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have no idea why you think the media and corporations represent the will of the American public.

[–]yesofcoursenaturally 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're the one who said '50% of the people were white', as if that means they aren't pushing a racial angle themselves. I'm pointing out how the considerable whiteness of all these other groups sure didn't divest them of a racial angle.

If all you have is bare appeal to logical possibility, alright. You don't have much.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm arguing that not everyone belongs to BLM, that's why I mentioned they are white.

[–]Aureus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

These had the potential to be protests about police misconduct, but there's no question that the racial component has overwhelmed that.

If anything, just look at the signs displayed at them and be honest with yourself.

[–]magnora7[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

but there's no question that the racial component has overwhelmed that.

...which was the point of the media focusing on BLM so exclusively... don't you see it?

The racial component only appears to have overwhelmed it because that's what the media wants you to believe!

[–]Aureus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unless the media has hired tens of thousands of people around the country to wave signs and chant slogans they don't really believe in, and infiltrated my friend group and coworkers with deep-cover agents who laid in wait for years just to brainwash me with a false idea of what the protest is really about, I'm afraid you're mistaken.

Come on now. Be honest. If you're claiming that the media changed the narrative of the protests at the start and turned what could have been a discussion about police brutality into an argument about race - okay, maybe I could see that. But even then, it's not just "the media" but also thousands of left-leaning politicians, academics, companies, entertainers, and activists who unanimously decided to work together to twist the narrative.

But to suggest that the protests aren't about BLM now? After the mayor of DC changed the name of 16th Street Northwest to "Black Lives Matter Plaza"? That's just not recognizing reality.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I think the best way is to both acknowledge the racial problems, but then also acknowledge the problem we all face as Americans together.

    An American is 50x more likely to be killed by police than a European. A black American suffers another 2.5x on top of that. The 2.5x is very important and needs improving, but the 50x that affects us all seems like the core of the problem.

    That's the most compact way to express the issue without putting anyone on the defensive that I've been able to figure out.

    [–]whereswhat 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Agreed. It's sad how many people will be confused by this.

    [–]H3v8 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think I understand your frustration. For example, people all over the world are worried about the environment and often want to protest certain governmental policies. So they decide to organise a protest, let's say about a new governmental building. Then organised groups appear and infiltrate the movement and take ownership and along with "save the environment" they will add other demands like "refugees welcome" and "kill the fascists", and if someone says that these are irrelevant he gets a beating. Or if other groups with different political affiliations appear, they get a beating as well. Finally, good people get enough of it and say something like "fuck the environment, I'm out of here" and never return.

    However, if behind the governmental policy is someone related to the left with connections to these groups, they will say it's not bad for the environment and why should we protest? They might even organise a counter-protest to beat the shit out of the protesters while the police looks away.

    The way things have turned, you can't salvage it. Maybe what's happening is new to US, but has been the norm in other countries.