all 38 comments

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Klenvastergan[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    If you're worried about people saying the wrong kind of speech, then you're not a free speech site.

    It doesn't matter what word you use for badspeech, it can be whatever label you want to slap on it. As long as you're banning badspeech you're banning badspeech.

    The correct way to have a free speech site is to allow the badspeech.

    [–]bobbobbybob 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

    lol. nigger

    edit, but yes, name calling is often a good thing to add to pyramid of debate refutations, especially when engaging with bad faith trolls (ie, all leftists)

    [–]Klenvastergan[S] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    ****** is an especially valuable word, which I'm not going to say on this site because as a racist who means it and is absolutely not just "saying slurs to be edgy", I will absolutely get tagged as a "troll" for using it, even when there's obvious purpose and meaning to my use of it.

    [–]369 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Freedom - use it or lose it.

    [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    I take back what I said earlier; it was quite inappropriate to imply that you where a troll, even if you appeared to be one initially. I was too quick to judgement, and I sincerely apologize.

    If you're curious: I thought you where u/ILoveCher, u/ihatesaidit, u/i_love_cher_only, etc. (he made a lot of accounts)

    [–]jykylsin2034 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Haha that was a weird trip. Glad he finally shut up

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think he killed a few of my brain cells.

    [–][deleted]  (11 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Klenvastergan[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      Do you have any specific examples of someone being censured or censored for not following the pyramid of debate when they were arguing in good faith?

      What does this have to do with anything that I argued anywhere in my post?

      I'm not saying the pyramid of debate isn't being followed, I'm saying it shouldn't be followed.

      If people aren't being censored for not following the pyramid of debate, then it's abominably stupid for this site to say right at the top of its rules "Hey on Saidit you have to follow the pyramid of debate".

      Also in general "good faith" and "bad faith" are the sort of empty phrases that usually just mean "agrees with the person determining good faith / disagrees with that person" so they're impossible to prove.

      [–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

      pointing out the hypocrisy of the other side (being fat and lazy while preaching austerity)

      That's the definition of ad hominem. It's not a valid argument usually. For example, a fat person can give good advice on health.

      [–][deleted]  (7 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

        It was a long sentence. I was merely pointing out that I don't believe pointing out hypocrisy is a valid argument. Although, people use it like an argument all the time.

        [–][deleted]  (5 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]C3P0 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

          If that is a sincere question then yes, I would if the advice seemed sound.

          [–][deleted]  (3 children)

          [deleted]

            [–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

            Well, thanks. It happens a lot actually: the crack addict who tells others not to do it, the drunk who tells others never to start drinking, service members who warn others never to join and go to college instead, etc. It's good advice.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Now we're in opinion territory.

              they don't know enough about the subject to even make it work for themselves.

              Knowing enough and having a desire to apply the knowledge are two different things. I am pretty sure most morbidly obese people know about a 2000 calorie diet. They just don't care.

              [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

              All Reddit alternative have fundamental flows, and are doomed to be destroyed with growth. Reddit without insane admins is the gold standard. It could be improved by allowing subs to have a programmable constitution. Independent up-vote currencies would be good too. Commie vote, freeman vote, different meaning.

              [–]Klenvastergan[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              I'm starting to think that any communications model where one person has ultimate unchecked authority over anywhere from hundreds to millions of other people is inherently fucked because the incentives for scummy behavior by that top person and disincentives against scummy behavior are too overwhelming to ignore.

              If there's a way forward it's gonna have to be some kind of decentralized shit where one guy at the top can't say "I'm sick of letting alla these people say whatever they feel like all the time, today were gonna get rid of [whatever fucking thing people say that pisses me off]" because anyone, no matter how well-intentioned, will eventually have that day, and then another one of those days, and then more of those days, and then they'll quit and be replaced by someone who has those days all the time.

              [–]C3P0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Independent up-vote currencies would be good too.

              That is exactly what exists currently.

              [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Where? Here, we don't even have a sad vote.

              [–]gof-urself2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

              subjective as hell for a start

              [–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

              Open up summit to g

              [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              To clarify, you'd rather me call you a retard with a poor grasp of logic, and you think that's a improvement over having an adult conversation that falls within the pyramid of debate?

              I think you want reddit instead of here. They already do that there.

              [–]Klenvastergan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              No, on reddit one side gets to call the other stupid, and the other gets banned for saying anything back.

              That's retarded and shows a poor grasp of logic.

              In my way, both sides get to call each other retarded and lacking in logic, and other people get to make up their minds who's telling the truth.

              Pretty simple stuff really.

              Adult conversations involve people with the courage to face mean words, not people who hide from mean words out of weakness and fear.

              [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              No, on reddit one side gets to call the other stupid, and the other gets banned for saying anything back.

              Effectively making an oppositional argument to a hostile audience is one of the most difficult things a person can do. The answer is not, however, turning Saidit into something that caters to you.

              [–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

              Well, if you aren't into it, there's always Ruqqus.

              [–]Klenvastergan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

              Ruqqus is heavily censored too, sorry bruh.

              [–]hfxB0oyA 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Of course, the big takeaway here is the H.L. Menckin quote: "Freedom of the press is limited to those who own one."

              [–]Klenvastergan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Someone who uses freedom to be stupid is still stupid.

              [–]Optimus85 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

              Why is civility lost on some people? Name-calling isn't the point of this platform.

              [–]Klenvastergan[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

              Civility is just affirmative action for bad ideas.

              [–][deleted]  (10 children)

              [deleted]

                [–]Klenvastergan[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

                Not from this site, no. I have never posted on this site before now under any name.

                If I had been, that would be useful and relevant information though.

                Thank you for helping to demonstrate my point on the value of ad hominems.

                [–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

                tam is... needy and uptight, ignore it

                [–]Klenvastergan[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

                Never ignore anything.

                Truth is God.

                [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

                good luck with truth there.... some people twist and turn and avoid even admitting the last thing they wrote

                [–]Klenvastergan[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                Which reveals many interesting truths!

                [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                I am quite uptight, that's true.

                [–][deleted]  (3 children)

                [deleted]

                  [–]Klenvastergan[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

                  Every person who says things you don't like sounds like some other person you don't like because things you don't like remind you of other things you don't like, and because lots of people sound like lots of people.

                  Accusing new people on web sites who say controversial things of being some previous banned person is usually a good sign that you yourself are way too involved in web sites. It also indicates you are generally hostile towards people who say controversial things, and the fact that this person you're calling a "troll" (which almost always just means "person who says controversial things") for being reminiscent of my post was banned indicates that this website is generally hostile towards people who say controversial things.

                  I'm going to go further and predict right now that application of the pyramid of debate by whoever decides how it's applied is heavily biased and generally used as a control method against people who say things that are too controversial.

                  But that remains to be seen.

                  [–]StrategicTactic 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

                  If it is the same as this username that I knew on ruqqus, yes he was banned for spam, but on there. However, a good number of the recent bans I believe were in bad faith, including his. I disagreed with many of his methods and arguments but he did engage forthrightly.

                  [–]Klenvastergan[S] 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

                  Thank you! Yes that was me.

                  [–]BuboTitan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  But if the central point is a deliberate lie, then you should be able to refute it. Even if the speaker is a "Nazi" or "idiot" etc that has nothing to do with the truthfulness of the point he made.