all 42 comments

[–]LordoftheFlies 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

My guess?

Because Communism, that's why. The people invested in its spread--often the same ones who loudly cry "real Communism hasn't been tried yet"--can't have people constantly recalling the horrors that it inflicted. And they'll shuck and jive to downplay, wave away, or otherwise excuse its atrocities with all of the fervor and grace of any Holocaust denier.

Oh, and the Chinese are special, haven't you seen or heard how many people bend over backwards to avoid upsetting on them certain issues, like the status of Taiwan? Or its absorption of Tibet, or how it walked back the various promises made in regards to Hong Kong?

[–]HongKongPhooey 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

The people invested in its spread--often the same ones who loudly cry "real Communism hasn't been tried yet"

I think these people tend to mean that Marxism wasn't taken to its conclusion. They are wrong that this could work any differently than we saw it play out in USSR, China, and Cuba, but not wrong about their being forms of Communism that aren't well tested that are quite different.

The rival Communist theorist to Marx was named Kropotkin, but he lost the popularity battle. He did not want a centralized state communism at all, he wanted a decentralized and libertarian Communism. I harbor some doubts about the viability of this ideology, but it does exist. Something like this was attempted in Spanish Catalonia from 1936-1939. George Orwell actually fought for them against the Spanish Government, but they were crushed.

Oh, and the Chinese are special, haven't you seen or heard how many people bend over backwards to avoid upsetting on them certain issues, like the status of Taiwan? Or its absorption of Tibet, or how it walked back the various promises made in regards to Hong Kong?

Can't argue any of that. But China is not really Communist anymore, even if some party wants to Masquerade as such. There isn't public ownership of production, and they have a market economy. This is capitalism, their tax rates are even lower than those in the US, its not even neo-socialism like such as they practice in Scandinavian countries

I will say there is a particular ideology people are referring to. It is a type of left-wing authoritarianism, and it is usually practiced by these ex-communist countries. Some people like to refer to this as Cultural Marxism, although I'm not sure its fair to attribute this particular ideology to him. They have just used his rhetorical style and applied it to social issues to justify their authoritarianism, and combined this with capitalist economics, which I very much doubt Marx would have approved of.

[–]Vulptex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I don't understand Kropotkin ideas of communism. Communism will never happen under anarchy because there's no state to enforce it.

[–]HongKongPhooey 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don't understand Kropotkin ideas of communism. Communism will never happen under anarchy because there's no state to enforce it.

Yes, a valid criticism, ill try my best to convey the different lines of thinking about this problem

Kropotkin wanted to replace the state apparatus and representatives with direct democracy. The community would enforce it.

This sort of arrangement can and has worked on very small scales, like a few hundred people. There is an entire school of sociology devoted to this idea. I don't know if you have heard of Dunbar's Number, but this idea is straight out of this school of thought that looks at the dynamics of group size and the need for dedicated enforcement

I would say that Kropotkin's ideas could probably not work at a very large scale, and he did envision many small autonomous communities. However history also tells us that there were likely many small groups practicing this sort of arrangement, and were likely all conquered by larger and more organized statists.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

That's not libertarian then

[–]HongKongPhooey 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's not libertarian then

Not in the colloquial sense of American Libertarians. But in the sense of libertarianism being the opposite of authoritarianism. There is no authority putting themselves above the people, no centralization, only the people themselves, and in the sense that anarchism and libertariansm both have a dislike of hierarchcal authority. These two ideologies are fairly close to each other. Historically, libertarianism has not always been associated with conservatism like it is now in the US. Mostly due to their laissez-faire economic attitude being shared with conservatives

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Direct democracy is authoritarian

[–]HongKongPhooey 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Direct democracy is authoritarian

Yes, a valid point, and I actually agree. It's rule of the masses. But it's a much different thing than top down authority. It's the polar opposite of the Marxist model that embraces top-down authoritarianism, because this type of authority is by dictate. I'd say it attempts to be anti-authoritarian by distributing the authority among many instead of a few, but ignores tyranny of the masses.

I'd consider this anti-authoritarian, because the aim is clearly to eliminate arbitrary dictates and reduce the power and authority of any individual. But I would also say this doesn't work as intended, and we end up with a different sort of tyranny that is not any better, or less authoritarian, just different

Both mobs and despots can be tyrannical

[–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Orwell got it right on the all encompassing desire of power for powers sake as the true betrayer of the revolution and why all communist experiments ultimately fail.

I think Americans especially though, and they can hardly he blamed to the rampant anti-communist propaganda being spread since the 1950's, tend to do what the propoganda is designed to do and have instant knee jerk thought free reactions towards simply the word itself without really taking the time to understand what the ideology of communism is or why it has failed. It's just commies un-good, our state double plus good.

Communism has always attracted a bunch of kooks and weirdos that have no bearing on reality so it tends to collapse into sheer idiocy whenever someone tries to organize it, it's the problem with having a simple overarching ideological answer for all of life's problems. What is the essence of class struggle? Why it's the oppression of the proletariat by the bourgeoisie comrade. Just replace the terms with whatever up down power dynamic you want to go with, us vs them, divide et impera. Revolutionaries love it as it destabilizes power dynamics and gives them an in to establish their own new power dynamic with themselves at the top! No one is going to willingly give up the seat of power once obtained no matter how good their intentions are going in. The ring is mine! It came to me! I found it! It's rightfully mine! But we can always convince some poor overworked and exploited bumpkin that I actually care about him and they'll toss in what they will, what have they got to lose under capitalism or communism? To him both are shit. Ideological platitudes don't put food in your belly.

It is of course a mistake to simply discard learning about Marx and his teachings and giving credit where credit is due. He was right at his basic explanation of the power structure of his society at the time, albeit the explanation is overly simplistic. He was right that the power shift away from the nobility into a new ruling class of capitalists along with the industrial revolution changing the world from a primarily agrarian to manufacturing base was destabilizing communities and causing a great deal of suffering as workers unable to navigate this new world well were getting exploited. And he was certainly right about the use of religion by the state to keep the proles in line as well. As well as the astute observation that ultimately philosophy and patriotism are subservient to the more pressing need of actual material benefits, in other words a starving man will sing whatever song the soup monger wants him to sing.

But ultimately this whole idea of the ultimate revolution of the proletariat and all that utopian garbage that comes with it is his failing, Marx does what everyone today does, easily points out the problems with society, makes a simple yet incomplete and shortsighted guess as to why that is, then proves utterly retarded at providing solutions to fix the problem that won't bork up the world more. I mean my god the dictatorship of the proletariat? You fucking retarded? Look at every ideological revolution throughout history? It's ok guys you can trust me with absolute dictatorial power I promise to use it for good! Let's start with killing those terrorists who said I wouldn't use my power for good!

[–]HongKongPhooey 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am glad to see somebody actually understands Marx and these economic issues

Marx does what everyone today does, easily points out the problems with society, makes a simple yet incomplete and shortsighted guess as to why that is, then proves utterly retarded at providing solutions

This is a distinction I wish more people were able to make. His critiques were largely on the money, his solutions not so much

[–]Insider 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or its absorption of Tibet

You working for George Soros?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_Tibetan_program

The CIA Tibetan program was a nearly two decades long anti-Chinese covert operation focused on Tibet which consisted of "political action, propaganda, paramilitary and intelligence operations" based on U.S. government arrangements made with brothers of the 14th Dalai Lama, who was not initially aware of them.

CIA front still funding bullshit on Tibet:

https://www.ned.org/region/asia/tibet-china-2021/

 

George Soros and Andrea Soros:

https://www.trace.org/about

Trace Foundation was born in 1993 out of the experiences of Andrea E. Soros on the Tibetan Plateau as a tourist and English teacher. We began as a small organization, awarding grants to individuals, institutions and organizations undertaking projects which furthered the mission of the Foundation: to support the continuity of Tibetan culture and language, and develop the ability of Tibetan communities within China to meet their own needs. In our first decade of operation Trace awarded over three hundred grants in a variety of sectors and regional locations for a total investment of nearly $14 million (USD).

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/who-we-are/leadership/andrea-soros-colombel

[–]Insider 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, and the Chinese are special, haven't you seen or heard how many people bend over backwards to avoid upsetting on them certain issues, like the status of Taiwan? Or its absorption of Tibet, or how it walked back the various promises made in regards to Hong Kong?

Why would you trust pedophiles on China news though

[–]BISH 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

The Bolsheviks murdered about 20-40 million Russians.

The Bolsheviks were about 70% Russian Jews, so don't expect to hear any confessions about that.

[–]FuckYourMom[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism

Is that it? Do you have any links? I have never heard of this in my life.

[–]BISH 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Don't believe the Israeli Wikipedia propaganda.

Here's something noteworthy.

THE CRUCIFIXION OF RUSSIA - BOLSHEVIK DOCUMENTARY

[–]jacques1102 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Don't believe israeli wikipedia!Instead,trust this bitchute video by an anonymous person.

[–]BISH 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't believe israeli wikipedia!

Agreed.

Instead trust this bitchute video by an anonymous person.

Don't trust. Look at the info and decide for yourself.

[–]jacques1102 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And what if i decide that i don't trust it?

[–]HibikiBlackWitch Doctor 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Because there's a lot of powerful people that manipulated history for its own ends and needed someone to be the scapegoat, in this case, it was Germany. There's no reason why "The Holocaust" should be given that much relevance, attention, or for the Jews to be given that much benefits when there's been way worse such events in history. Not only do the Germans are ridiculed for the Holocaust, but even white people if not downright nationalism as a whole is demonized because of it. Completely biased and ridiculous:

Compilation of Holocaust Denial Arguments and how self-victimization strategy works.

[–]MightyMorphinFaggot 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Considering nobody bothers to ask why an entire country would rally to attack jews other than muh racism.

There should have been a holocaust against the jewish people, but it's much more boring than that.

[–]Rah 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

About 2k thousand years ago, Cyprus lost 500k inhabitants due to the greatest genocide of the ancient age. It was equivalent today as if the States, 300mil people, had roughly 270mil of its population decimated.

The perpretators were later banned from ever stepping in the island only until very recently, like 100 years ago.ill give a clue to who im talking about: its the same.people banished from more than 100 nations through history.

[–]iDontShift 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

bolsheviks killed millions of christians in russia

way more than the hollow-hoax even pretended to do

and they happened at the same time, one was real starvation and murder, the other was military enslavement that was changed into murder camps

that says everything you need to know about who runs the material world at the moment

[–]Vulptex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Because they're biased in favor of communism.

[–]FuckYourMom[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Second communism take.

So we sided with the commies in ww2 so we had to…?

I don’t know if I connect all the dots.

[–]Insider 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

US sided with the commies and were behind the Nazis

Not unlike how they're behind the formation of the Ukraine Nazis now

[–]BISH 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So we sided with the commies in ww2 so we had to…?

I don’t know if I connect all the dots.

The banksters control both sides, and align them when it's convenient.

Mostly it's used as a divide and conquer strategy of controlled opposition. They own the "leadership" of both sides.

[–]Insider 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you mean there's tons of propaganda against communism

Mao indirectly killed millions through the Great Famine, but that number somehow got to 40 M based on zero evidence

[–]hfxB0oyA 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I suspect the political affiliation of the people who have no jobs and therefore spend all their time doing things like managing Wikipedia and Reddit for free, is of the flavour that would like to conveniently ignore anything that would disparage communism.

[–]EternalSunset 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Genghis Khan armies are estimated to have killed 70 million people btw

[–]FuckYourMom[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow. I’d like to read more about that. For some reason he is seen as a good man and a conquer.

[–]EternalSunset 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]Oyveygoyim 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Because America chose to side with the communists in the 1940s. It's funny to see the mess in Ukraine right now and all the chirping from Nato... if everyone fought against communism during WW2 the Russian/Ukraine situation wouldn't be happening nor would there even be need for NATO.

[–]FuckYourMom[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Interesting enough, Russia fought the nazis in WW2 and is fighting them now.

[–]LordoftheFlies 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not saying that there aren't neo-Nazis running around in Ukraine. But doesn't it seem oddly convenient that they're suddenly now an issue just as Russia has a reason to be rolling through the part of the country where they're supposed to be hanging out?

[–]Oyveygoyim 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So they say...

[–]Dragonerne 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who owns the media? Jews
Who owns hollywood? Jews
Who runs the US? Jews
Who owns social media? Jews

Seriously, just go through the different companies, you can start with reddit. Look up Donald Newhouse and guess what he is? Jewish

I was watching some old star trek episodes and hilariously it was poorly hidden jewish propaganda, so I went to check who made the story and sure enough, the story was written by a jew :D

[–]Tarrock 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How much power do Anti-Maoists and Cambodians hold over the world and western countries? There's your answer.

[–]jet199Instigatrix 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Because you are Americans and your news is mostly crime and weather.

In other countries they go on about other genocides, a lot.

Even in the US there is constant talk about slavery and the genocide against the Natives.

It just depends where you live what people are hung up about.

There was a good piece the other day about how Zelensky was saying things which were offensive to American Jews because in the Ukraine they have a completely different perspective on the holocaust and it's not really talked about that much.

[–]FuckYourMom[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What is the different perspective? Can you tell me why Zelenski said? I’d love to look it up.

[–]LarrySwinger2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because those genocides are real.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you do not state the Holocaust as the worst atrocity in history, you will be referred to as an anti-Semite. If you want to know who controls you, just look to who you aren't allowed to criticise.

Generally speaking, few people would ever agree with Nazis actions or ideology. Sadly though, many still agree with hardcore communism, or are living in a communist state that prohibits any criticism. So these guys aren't going to say a bad word about their predecessors evil deeds.