Ethan Hawke Incests... err... Insists that he was Comfortable Cine-pimping his Daughter.

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[–]TheMaharishi 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of celebs are broken. That's why they crave attention so badly. I can't imagine a normal dad. Being comfortable with whoring out their daughter like that. Let alone being in the room watching it live.

[–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She has big teefusses.

[–]xoenix 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

WTF. I cringed so hard reading that I don't think I'll ever be able to un-cringe.

[–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The thing I find interesting about this sort of thing as a former actor and then filmmaker is not where you all are getting hung up.

I am hung up on the fact that this is OK where the stuff James Franco and Louis C.K. did with verbally consenting adults is not. Yeah that stuff was creepy, but being in show business is like that even without an actual creep because sex scenes, nudity and other ways of putting yourself on display are part of it. They used to literally make people rehearse naked just to get used to the embarrassment and nervousness of scenes even when they are completely G rated. You have to develop a thick skin, yet somehow this generation of actors seem to have thinner skin than a person suffering from epidermolysis bullosa.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What does graphic nudity really add though? It's more shocking than good storytelling. I think it's a gimmick to counter weak storytelling.

[–]makesyoudownvote 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

First of all, in some films or plays it's absolutely vital and not a gimmick. It CAN be a gimmick, just like anything else, but it isn't nessesarily.

But this is also sort of missing what I am talking about. Artistic expression in general involves exposing yourself, but acting it tends to be more literal. As a form of practice it can be good to force yourself out of your comfort zone to get use to exposing yourself both physically and emotionally. Being nude or overtly sexual can be sort of like many drills for athletics. You have to get to the point where you are not considering emotions like embarrassment, otherwise you're stiff.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The vast majority of nudity is a gimmick. I'd give a pass to more artistic and or foreign films, but generally, American films use it as a gimmick that takes the place of good storytelling. It's salacious for the sake of being salacious, and it's usually something a studio demands a director put in because they don't care about the filmmaker's vision, they just want the sex in it.

That may be fine for actors and artists to help them hone their craft, but as a fan of films, I've rarely seen a movie/tv show where it was necessary and couldn't be accomplished by good storytelling/acting. I'm especially calling it out when it comes to things like rape/sexual assault. I don't need or want to see that and I stay away from those scenes and will likely fast forward, or just not watch that shit at all. I have much more admiration for the director/writer/actor that can do that through good storytelling/acting rather than graphic nude scenes.

In this case, I absolutely think it's a gimmick. I think Ethan Hawke is a wonderful actor/writer(?)/director, and can't think of anything off the top of my head that I didn't enjoy him in no matter the capacity. And he and his daughter may feel comfortable doing this, but I can't see any reason at all to show a sex scene in a movie about Flannery O'Connor. The sex scene is a gimmick and him directing his own daughter is a gimmick. A very grimy and very Hollywood gimmick.

My opinion of course.

[–]makesyoudownvote 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ok, I agree with the last point, however I will hold off on judgment until I have seen the movie.

I definitely felt the sex scene in Oppenheimer was gratuitous. I do think there was a legitimate artistic reason to include it, which was to humanize the character, and to break up a series of dry moments in the film, but ultimately it was more gimmick than artistic.

That said, as someone with two film degrees and over a decade of Hollywood experience, I really don't think saying it's always a gimmick is fair. I do think you are right though that sex sells, Americans are horny and repressed but in the midst of a second sexual awakening. That's why it's so effective whereas only 20 years ago you had to fight most studios to include a sex scene. HBO is largely responsible for it becoming so mainstream imo.

As far as the rehearsal thing, my comment was more about James Franco and his allegations. I'm not invalidating them or their allegations, I am just saying the allegations themselves don't mean much given how gray this area gets for acting classes. There is good reason, and this sort of training marks the difference often between the stiff acting you get in Christian and corporate films and real actors.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I get the idea that it can be liberating as a performer and a filmmaker, and can help someone break some barriers and make them better at their job, but not in the movie, though there are rare exceptions for me, especially when it comes to sexual assault/rape (though that can be a useful tool in the right hands. I'm thinking Gaspar Noe's "Irreversible." Shocking and violent, but it's absolutely crucial to the story he's telling).

I haven't seen Oppenheimer yet. I saw Fat Man and Little Boy, which I enjoyed (Broccoli was Oppenheimer!). I just don't know if I see the need for this film. What is Nolan going to tell me about the same event that I don't already know? I'll still see it when it hits streaming though. And yeah, everyone wants to get Florence Pugh's pants off. Ironically, I think she's a decent actress. Loved her in Midsommar. She also doesn't seem to mind nudity.

Wow, what do you do in the movie business, if you don't mind me asking?

Growing up, most nudity was relegated to boobs in teen comedies or horror movies. Pretty innocent. Except for Clint Eastwood films. He had a rash of movies with graphic rape scenes. Poor Sandra Locke!

HBO was a nudity pioneer, but they too overdo it now. Game of Thrones is a great example. I get it, why not make your TV show with lots of sex. Guaranteed a lot of Americans will eat that up, but again, for me it gets in the way of storytelling when it's overdone like GOT. Imo, they didn't need it that much. Most of the drama series were so good, they could have easily left it out.

Yeah, there's something gross about James Franco that makes me totally believe those allegations, and I was a fan. I tend to hold off until there are charges/court case as I hate the idea of guilt by social media allegation or "believe all women." But sometimes you just get a feeling about someone. Danny Masterson is another one. I believed from the get go, though I had no evidence. I don't think the Hawke's are in that same boat at all, but I do believe they're exploiting each other in this situation and it's unnecessary in this context.

[–]makesyoudownvote 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alright I mostly agree there. I think your bar is a bit lower than me. I think once you get sensitive to it just failed artistic expression seems as bad as full gimmick.

I did a bit of everything. I started as an actor, moved to editing, then pre-production, then set building, then set design, then lighting, grip and rigging, then writing then directing and producing, this is when I got disillusioned with the industry. I continued doing pyro effects for a while, left Hollywood and started shooting commercials, documentaries and corporate films, then finally quit and became an electrical engineer.

Some of the bigger films I have worked on were Memoirs of a Geisha, The Dark Knight, and and The Hangover. In fact, with Hangover I am the guy who wrote the original coverage for the script. Because of me it very nearly didn't get made because the company I was working for wanted to get away from comedies and into more action/adventure stuff, but then I pulled some of the big wigs aside and told them "but really, it's going to make a lot of money, I think it's still worth making, you just have to rework two of the characters, so they made Ed Helm's character more of a straight man, and I helped rewrite/create Zach Galifianakis' character. He was originally more like Ed Helm's Stu, where both characters kinds took turns being the crazy one. Oh also Mike Tyson's was very much lifted from another script I had written for a completely different project. I don't remember who the original celebrity was supposed to be, but it wasn't Mike Tyson.

Hope that gives enough perspective.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I couldn't do it. And I question why we even need graphic sex scenes in movies. If you're a good storyteller and filmmaker, you can make that point without it. It's not something I'm into and it often distracts from stories rather then helping tell them, imo.

Having said that, I find this presentism almost ever actress in Hollywood has, more concerning:

"She benefited from a lot of the privilege of whiteness, while being deprived of a lot of the privilege of maleness."

This from an incredibly privileged, more than any white straight mail I know, actress. I liken her to those women who used to hand out white feathers to men who didn't make the grade to serve in WWI and WWII. How dare you judge any man when it comes to serving in a war/combat. You who have been spared at the cost of so many young men.

The worst thing Ethan Hawke ever did was foist his talentless daughter on us. She really can't act.