GC women: If you had been born male, and you felt unable to get the rest of the male community to behave better, wouldn't you be ashamed and embarassed too? Possibly to the point of wanting to hide it or make it ambiguous? by citydweller1 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd be more ashamed if, in order to hide my hypothetical male sex, I engaged in the very same toxic and abusive behaviour I claim to be fleeing from. Every time I hear this kind of explantion about how someone cannot possibly be a man because they define a man as a kind of monster whithout any redeemabe quality, I want to ask them how genuine this feeling actually is if they are completely oblivious about how much havoc they wreck by forcing women to play along with this. To me it sounds more as if, because for whatever reason they feel like they are at the bottom of male hierarchy, either (1) they want to use women as disposable human shields or (2) they want to bully women because we are an easier target than men.

QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology by Chronicity in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't dodge the question. What a woman is it's absolutely relevant if you're going to define "trans". What does the adjective "trans" means when describing a "woman"? What does make someone "trans"? What are the differences between "transwomen" and women?

Your argument relies on us accepting the claim that a "transwoman" is a type of woman. If you expect we accept this, then first you need to define what is a woman and how "transwomen" fit the definition.

QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology by Chronicity in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, what does make them "woman"? What is a woman?

QT: The most damning contradiction of trans ideology by Chronicity in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If a word can mean whatever to anyone, then that word it's effectively meaningless. Words are supposed to facilitate communication.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, just stop. You're always trying to give this image that you are this super good and super tolerant person, who is even willing to disavow their own family for the crime of calling a man a man. But no one buys it. It sounds so fake. Especially when you say things like you "respect" our "identities", yet you miss the point of anything we say and now you are even pretending we are not the same sex because of our political beliefs.

I don't know why you do this, but trying to appear as this super trans ally won't save you when (not if) QT disavows you for not keeping up with their ever changing rules.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I dont understand why some GC women have a hard time believing that women could advocate so hard for transgenderism

Because QT seeks the erasure of women's rights for the benefict of men. Because they won't even allow we have a name for ourselves. And, yes, I know you think I'm being hiperbolic here, but just tell me this, genderbender. What have transactivists made for "cis" women? In what way"cis" women" benefit from transgenderism? But don't give me a generic and empty statemente like all women are better off by including everyone. Give me concrete and observable examples.

Moreover, giving recent developments in the US... Do you really American women have any chance about fighting for abortion when many are more worried about saying things like "not only women get pregnant" so not to the offend the "transmen"? Do you really American women have any chance about fighting for abortion when many are more worried about not pissing off the "transwomen" with so much talk about female reproductive organs? You may deny the importance of sex all you want here, but I'm sure you understand very well which sex category is the only that can get pregnant even if you don't won't it out loud. So, who do you think all this ofuscation and walking on eggs shells really benefit?

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So you can tell someone's sex assigned at birth by their words and behavior? I thought GCs were against sex stereotypes?

I cannot speak for others, I can only make guesses about what they may think, you know? You keep sharing random quotes from Ovarit and asking us to justify or explain them as if we all are a hivemind. But, anyway, some possible answers may be:

  1. Because people don't always live up to their own ideals.

  2. Because being against sex-based stereotypes doesn't mean you have to deny the reality that there are observable trends in how women and men behave. Humans make assumptions based on trends about all kind of things all the time. It's hard-wired on us because in order to survive in the distant past we had to decide in an instant if, for example, that big and scary lion over there was a threat. Getting right of generalizations may not be possible, but that doesn't mean we cannot strive for a fairer society or challenge plain baseless ideas like, for instance, "men are the rational ones, women are the emotional ones".

  3. Because some GC women have a hard time believing that women could advocate so hard for transgenderism.

But speaking about sex-based stereotypes...

Yes I understand. I still believe some trans people are indistuinguishable from cis people of the same gender.

Could you explain what do you mean by this? What does make two people be the same "gender" if not sex-based stereotypes? If self-identification alone, as you have told us, makes a woman how "transwoman" can be indistinguishable from "cis women"? If self-identifation alone makes a woman, how can a "transwoman" "pass" or not?

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Don't you understand that meeting someone in person is a complete different experience than seeing them in a picture? And pictures can be filtered, being in taken in convenient angles and lighting, etcetera. Also, those users may have made a guess based in Chase Strangio and Jeanette Jennings's words or behaviour.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What is the difference...?

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How do you know it's sulphuric acid? I can't say until I actually see the effects of it, it could be doubly mislabeled.

I know because I am the one making the example up! Whatever, the way you phrased this betrays that you do understand that perception don't trump reality. So, why cannot you apply this when it comes to trans issues.

I've been easily overpowered by women and trans men before, I'm infertile because of HRT and the thought of having biological kids makes me nauseous, I've never been violent because I refuse to be like the men who abused me, and I've never even initiated sexual contact with someone. Me being trans doesn't erase historical oppression, but I'm not evil or a threat, that is the last thing I want to be.

Women have no way to know anything of this about you. Again, barying males from women's bathrooms is nothing personal against you or any male, however said male identify as. We just cannot know wheter a male stranger is safe or not.

That doesn't change that sexual predation still simply shouldn't happen. It doesn't make it better because you have a slightly better chance of fighting it off.

Slightly better is and understatement. And you are forgeting the part where men are way more likely to be sexual predators. C'mon, derrple, there is a reason why you're afraid of men, but not women.

To me? When talking to my doctor to plan SRS or other transition care. Or family planning because I would like to be a mother idk. The sex of partners doesn't matter to me at all.

What? No, I was asking in general. No everything is about you...

Which is disgusting and sexist. Women can be rapists. And no, you're wrong, even under British law women can be charged with rape as accessories to a male rapist, I will find the numbers but the vast majority of British women incarcerated for rape were not trans.

Source?

What's wrong with that? They're still horrible criminals.

Don't you think that collecting data of trans identified people but not counting certain trans identified people alter the statistics?

I've had some very thoughtful convos with trans people my age and a lot agree with me that that angry rhetoric does no one any good. Angry people on twitter are not the majority, as anywhere the loudest and most violent voices dominate sadly.

And yet I've not seen the same level of violence coming from the GC side.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't need to. Any more than anyone else here does, I simply am.

I can easily explain why I am woman. Because of biology, it's that simple. I am adult human female.

Y'all have mainly given a ton of fearmongering and hate stirring mostly over those in totally different situations like prisons. It's not like you listen to me either, when I tell you that trans people have been using the bathroom for decades and that it was never a problem before... We are just talking past each other.

It has always been a problem! The only reason you face more vocal opposition right now is because you (general you) cannot hide your actions anymore because the number of people like you keeps increasing and because you all are quite vocal about it with some of you even taking selfies of their adventures into women's restrooms. And of course internet makes easier for women to spread the word in spite of how much Big Tech try to supress dissenting voices. And of course, you have all the TRAs starting a witch hunt anytime they a woman speaking out about males using spaces designed for women.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but a bathroom is not a personal boundary that you get to exclude an entire group of women from.

If a bathroom is not a personal boundary, then you wouldn't care either if all bathrooms become unisex and you have to share them with regular males, right? After all, who are you to exclude half the population of using public bathrooms? Saying men may pose a risk to you sounds like fearmongering, you know? You cannot judge all men for the actions of a few abusive men, don't you think so?

Of course, you know that I'm talking nonsense here. Yet, when women try to explain to you why we don't want males however they identify as in places like bathrooms, you act outraged.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's probably part of it, but even before that there were signs.

Like which ones? What made you think you were a girl? You're contradicting yourself. You said being a "woman" it's a matter of how other people perceive you. However, unless you started "medical transition" when you were very young, I doubt other people perceived child derrple as a "girl".

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know what hitologically means, thank you. I was questioning your claim of not being histological differences because tissues are made up of cells. If there are differences at the cellular levels, those differences will manifest in the structure and function of tissues. And sex is not defined by secondary sex characteristics.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow it's almost like trans men identify as men and trans women identify as women.

And despite that both "transwomen" AND "transmen" are competing in the WOMEN's categories.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

there are still many differences at the cellular level.

Who the heck cares? The tissue level is identical, what's important is that my receptors behave in a way that lets my breasts be breasts, and they do.

Well, tissues are made up of cells and if there are differences at the cellular level...

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are trans men in sports too y'all just don't demonize them as much. There was a trans man swimmer that ik of.

No one has said there aren't trans identified females who are compenting in sports. We said they are not winning in MEN's sports. I know of a TM swimmer, too: she competes in the WOMEN's category, which is quite common among female athletes who identify as "men" or "non-binary". Funny how they are eager to compete against men unlike TW, who are eager to compete against women. I wonder why that could be...

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It pretty much is though? If you can't distinguish something or someone in a certain context than thats that.

Don't ignore the question: what would happen if someone tried to drink from a botle of sulphuric acid because it's labelled as a water?

It's because you literally do exactly the same thing as racist people who post criminals to stir up hate against an entire demographic. I don't pose a risk to women, neither does anyone I know. Hyperfocusing on criminals who happen to be trans is deliberately associating transness with criminality which is just hatred nothing more.

We've gone through this already: males (regardless of how they identify as) are a risk to women because they are physically stronger than us, they can impregnate us, they are more likely to be violent, and they are way more likely to be sexual predators. Declaring yourself a woman wont erase the historical oppression of women.

An exception doesn't mean the floodgates are open though

It literally does. Just read the links I gave you.

Yeah. You're allowed to question their actual actions and whether they're being a creep but that would apply regardless.

You're allowed to question the actions of any abusive man that may threat you in the men's bathrooms, but that would apply regardless.

I've already admitted it's contextual which matters more so

Oh, really? So, when does sex matters to you? Because up to now you've not provided a single example.

Trans women aren't men

Define the words men and woman, please.

and you don't know which women are sexual predators either, things will be virtually no different if you ban those whose identity is "man" in terms of danger.

Sexual predators are overwhelming male, though. And we have a better chance of fighting against another woman.

I distinctly remember some of the British statistics being debunked, I will have to try and dig that up. Something about it being based on the number of women convicted for rape but there actually being very few trans women.

Uh, do you know that rape, as defined by British law, is a male-only crime because it requires a penis? Pretty much any "woman" convicted for rape there is guaranteed to be actually male. But that is besides the point because I said nothing about sex crimes in particular. Those numbers were are about all trans identified inmates (minus those who have adquired an Gender Reassigment Certificate because the UK goverment decided not to count them, but sure GC women are being hateful and paranoid when protesting recent changes in language...).

I do think trans women in general should try and unlearn toxic models of socialization and anger, iirc that study mostly studied an older cohort of trans people who's behavior does not necessarily reflect on young trans people today.

I doubt very much younger TW are less prone to violence if all their very current threaths of violence, rape and death (and in some cases actual violence) towards disenting women are any indication.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How many times do you need to be told that no one here personally hates you? We've given you a lot of explanations and examples for why including TW in women's bathrooms (and other women's spaces) hurts women. We've explained to you why the material reality of sex is more important than how people perceives themselves and others. You just keep refusing to actually listen to anything we've to say and, instead, you choose to believe our disagreements are rooted in us having an irrational hate for you and other people like you. You keep insisting than you are a "woman", yet you are completely unable to justify the claim beyond stating your wish for it to be true. And in spite of the lack of explanations for your own "identity" you believe everyone has the duty to perceive you as you perceive yourself and behave accordingly.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Being mistaken for something is NOT the same as being that something! And yes, the difference between the two DOES matter. For example, sulphuric acid is a colorless and odorless liquid. If someone labeled a botle of it as water and, a while later, another person tried to drink it, what do you think it would happen?

Also uhm, you can't reasonably expect me to respond to every single article in that right x( it will take me a while but fwiw

Take all the time you need to read them. I can wait and there is no much activity in this sub, anyway.

There have also been studies done showing that trans people using the bathroom did not cause any issues:

What did happen with "women should be believed"? Also, I don't think an study on this issue made by the ACLU is trustworthy giving that they are set on not allowing American citizens to learn how many males who identify as trans have been transfered to women's prisons. If TWAW and they don't pose a risk to women, what is there to hide?

I don't think gender neutral toilets are a good idea so I'm not going against the articles you shared about them.

Allowing special exeptions for certain males is basically making women's toilets into mixed toilets. By allowing certain males in, you are making those places open for ALL males. And let's not forget women are NOT allowed to question the "gender identity" of any male wandering into women's spaces regardless of how much like a typical man he looks like.

A third, single stall room would be nice, but trans people have been using the room that matches our expression for a long time and will continue to just fine.

You're assuming women never have a problem with this before.

As for prisoners/criminals/people who have done awful things: 1. Obviously I do not support their crimes and I hope those they hurt receive help and love 2. If you want to talk about prison placement we can but idk how it's the same thing as bathrooms? Unless you think most people using bathrooms are criminals

I know this thread is about public restrooms in particular (because genderbender won't discuss any other space...), but I think other sex-segregated spaces are also relevant when discussing whether "gender identity" is more relevant than sex or not.

Idk how I'm personally responsible for the actions of lia Thomas or r*pists or why their behavior or crimes should mean I'm treated the same

I never claimed you were. Again, you are taking our "no" too personally despite that nothing of this is because of you in particular. Like I told you before, the best prevention strategy is barying all men from places certain places like bathrooms or changing rooms not because all men are sexual predators, but because women have no way to know which men are. Somehow you are able to understand that you don't want to be around regular males, yet you are unable to understand why women want to be away from all males regardless of how said males identify as.

BTW, according to this study, even after full "medical transition", TW retain male patterns of criminality. Also, according to official numbers from the UK, around 80% of trans identified inmates are "transwomen"; in contrast, women represent around the 4% of all British inmates.

Edit: typos

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's about the fact we are opposite sexes regardless of how you view yourself.

So? We don't have to be the same sex to both be women.

Of course we would have to be the same sex to both be women! Saying you're a woman doesn't make you one just like saying you're a bird doesn't make you a bird, either. I'm not making any moral judgement by stating such facts. It's not my fault if you decide to interpret this as an attack against you because of your own views on women and men, and because of your self-esteem issues.

On the other hand, I find insulting your insistence that we are both woman and that sex is irrelevant. Once you decide that the definition of woman is not rooted in biology, all that is left are sex-based roles and stereotypes and I refuse to be defined on such terms. And I remind you that you have yet to explain in what way you are a "woman" beyond your own wishes, and why it's so important for you to reject your own sex.

As for what is harm in women giving up women's spaces like public bathrooms in order to accomodate people like you, well, here you have some examples:

Single-sex toilets needed to overcome girls' barriers to education,' says Unesco

Unisex changing rooms put women at danger of sexual assault, data reveals

Women are losing access to public toilets 'by stealth' amid a boom in gender-neutral loos, say experts

School girls rejecting mixed toilets over boys’ bad behaviour

Professor Blasts 'Unacceptable' Gender-Neutral Bathroom With Man at Urinal

Father Claims Daughter Was Sexually Assaulted by Male Student in Girls' Washroom at School

Male Student Filmed Women in “All Gender” Washroom

Lia Thomas' UPenn teammate tells how the trans swimmer doesn't always cover up her male genitals when changing and their concerns go ignored by their coach

LAPD Officer Blamed a Mother for Exposing her Daughter to Male Genitals at Wi Spa

Five Women Have Filed Police Reports Alleging Indecent Exposure at Wi Spa

Patient safety fears as NHS allows trans sex offenders in female-only wards

NHS 'gaslighting' patients over trans women on female-only wards, nurse claims

Hospital told police a woman who complained she was raped that only other women were present on the single-sex ward - before admitting after a YEAR that one was trans

Protecting men at the women’s shelter

‘Bigoted people may be challenged’: Comments by trans head of Edinburgh Rape Crisis sparks controversy

Why was convicted paedophile allowed to move to a female jail?

Male-Bodied Rapists Are Being Imprisoned With Women. Why Do so Few People Care?

Prison officers demand guidelines on transgender inmates

Female prisoners at greater risk of sexual assault by transgender inmates, High Court hears

High Court rules transgender women CAN go into female prisons: Judges rule government's policy is lawful despite claims from inmate it raised risk of sex attacks

Women prisoners who call transgender inmates ‘he’ or ‘him’ face extra jail time

Trans-Identified Male Inmates Committing Sexual Assault in Women's Jails, Female Ex-Inmate Claims

Female Prison Staff Called "Transphobic" for Discomfort with Trans-Identified Male Inmates

Two inmates at all-women's New Jersey jail are PREGNANT after both had sex with transgender prisoners: ACLU won battle to house 27 trans inmates there

UK: Women Recount Staff Denying there were Men in Single-Sex Hospital Spaces

Transgender Inmate Convicted Of Raping Female Prisoner at Women’s Facility

Women Being ‘Punished’ For Complaining About Male Transfers: Inmate in California Women’s Prison

I can look up more examples if you want, including ones that are only about public bathrooms.

Edit: typos

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Let's use real data. According to this height percentile calculator, a 5 feet 11 inches man is taller than 77.07% of adult males from the US. In constranst a 5 feet 11 inches woman is taller than 99.88% of adult females from the US. So, I stand by what I said: Laverne Cox stands out because of his height.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm just not going to put myself last at all costs anymore. Trans people don't have to sacrifice ourselves for you either.

No one is asking you to sacrifice yourself. Again, you all are free to advocate for third spaces. I doubt youwould find much oppossition to this solution besides yourselves.

Also still I don't understand what you mean by asking women, who exactly? Bc I've had women drag me into bathrooms before and tell me I was being silly.

The fact that your friends are okay with you using the women's bathrooms doesn't mean ALL women are fine with this. It's quite arrogant on your friends' part to consent to this in name of all women.

Would you use one regularly or would you feel you should be able to use the bathroom that's for you?

Sorry, but when was the votation where it was decided that women's bathrooms will be open from anyone who identifyes as a "women" regardless of biology? I think I missed it, same with the votation where it was decided anyone could be a "woman".

A bathroom that you don't own and that trans people have been using for decades is not your boundary, you can't just declare things as being your boundary and expect everyone to accept your ownership??

The fact you all have been using women's bathrooms for decades doesn't mean you are now entitled to them. The fact is they weren't meant for you all back then, either. If you all find more opposition for your actions right now is because your actions are not a secret anymore as there are way more males who claim to be "women" and because of the internet.

Like, your person, your body, those are for you to set what you're comfortable with 100% but kicking an entire group out of a bathroom simply because you don't like some of us is just bigotry.

Why do you think public bathrooms and other places where vulnerability is expected are sex-seggregated to begin with? It's not a social club. It's about and privacity because lots of women are not confortable sharing them with male strangers. It's about safety because men are physically stronger and are more likely to be violent and most sex predators are men. Women cannot know which males are safe or not, so the best prevention strategy is baryng ALL males from such places. You're taking our "no" too personally, but this is NOT about you. Allowing special exeptions for certains males because they feel like "women" defeats the purpose of sex-seggregation.

if someone is harassing you or making you feel unsafe then ofc I support you, heck I'd probably support you if there were an incident and it were your word against theirs because women should be believed.

Oh, right, women should be believed unless it's about "transwomen" accessing women's spaces. It's funny how you all expect sympathy for any potential male abuse you may suffer in men's bathrooms, and yet you all dismiss women's concerns so easily. You all insist you NEED to be away from the men for your own safety, but women must settle for your "support" after an avoidable incident happened.

Like, wouldn't you say that women's bathrooms are for all women and girls regardless of race, creed, sexuality, etc? Bc if so that's exactly how I feel, you just do not include me in that.

It's not about whether I want to include you or not. It's about the fact we are opposite sexes regardless of how you view yourself.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry but I've spent years asking and the only answer I ever get is that I can't, I get told to just be a gnc man, etc--basically impossible answers that I can't hope to adhere to without hurting myself. The expectation for me from y'all is that I should be totally selfless and be a woman in my home but conform in public and I just won't do that, it's not a fair expectation to place. I care about whether other people are comfortable around me but I'm not going to flagellate myself to appease them.

So, instead, you expect women be the ones who must disregard our own comfort and safety so to appease people like you. So you all keep accessing women's bathrooms, which you all have decided without asking women of course, you HAVE to use at all costs. It's women who must sacrifice themselves for the benefict of you all.

If you all don't want to use the men's bathrooms (and other sex-seggregated spaces), then you all can advocate for third spaces. But, no, you all do NOT want to use third spaces under any circunstance because that it's not "validating" enough or whatever. No, you all must use the women's bathrooms regardless of how women feel about this. And, of course, women are the ones who are being mean by standing up for their own boundaries and no you all for feeling entintled to use spaces that never were meant for you all.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wait, but isn't Laverne Cox that huge dude who appears in a well-known picture where he is standing next to a short woman who is about half his height? If so, there is no way he "pass", even if he weren't a celebrity. And I know you'll point out that there are some very tall women too, but they are rare. Laverne Cox's height alone should draw enough attention to himself that anyone who met him would notice his other male features later.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have multiple reddit accounts and on one of them I used to regularly post on r/gendercynical a few years back and no one ever accused me of transphobia. I have never once been accused of transphobia in my life.

Sorry, but I find this very hard to believe. I mean, it's the internet: people argue for dumb stuff like the color of a dress, misunderstandings happens (and what someone intended to be an obvious sarcasm, others take it seriously), and sometimes people make stuff up for whatever reason, including just for trolling. But you are tellling me you are active in online groups surrounded by vindictive people who are quick to take offense at reality and who are changing the rules all the time, and yet you've never been told you said something "transphobic? And we know you hold some opinions that some QT would find deeply transphobic like the fact you would only date post-op "transmen", and yet you've never been told you hold some "problematic beliefs", really?

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you really think we care about being called "transphobic" when we know that anything and everything is "transphobic" for QT? Imo, the only real thing to worry about is what may follow to such ridiculous and meaningless accusations, e.g. death and rape threaths, doxxing, firing, violence. But the word itself? No, really.

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

regarding modifying legal documents and getting cosmetic surgeries to look more like the opposite sex.

Yeah that just seems like the basics?

I don't understand your point. I'm saying all this stuff was presented to the public as a settled issue in spite of not only being a radical change, but also it was something unheard of for most Argentinians.

What? Like what's your basis for that, there have been trans or trans-identifying people across history it's not just a western phenomenon. I get there might be issues with translating the language though.

All the historical examples I'seen have either been: (a) women who are being "transed" posthumously for defying sex-based roles or stereotypes, or for having disguised as men or used male pennames to go against the constraints of their times; (b) examples of so-called "third genders", where in certain cultures men (and, more rarely, women) are put into a special cast outside the social roles assigned to men and women. The problem with using "third genders" as examples is that they were/are still recognized by their sex in their own cultures. Refering to certain males as women is a new fenomenom who began in Western countries at the 20th century due to, I think, the development of new medical technologies (i.e. exogenous hormones and "SRS") which would allow them to appear more like the oppossite sex.

Here is an Indian woman talking the actual reality of Indian hijras. She also has lot to say in other articles of her website about how the Western "trans" movement is being imported in India at a very quick pace in contrast to women's rights there.

It's weird, because what you see as imperialism just seems like a human rights issue to me @_@ like trans people should be accepted in every nation and able to transition and change our documents, I support the Yogyakarta principles in general

I imagined you supported the Yogyakarta principles. My point to mentioning them was there are rich people who are lobbying for this stuff around the world. The quick pace at which laws and policies are being changed, often without public knowledge, the way this is being supported by a good bunch of MSM and big companies-including Big Tech companies like Google-, the way dissenter's voices (particularly female dissenters) are being suppresed... Nothing of this looks like a grass-roots movement. For instance, you can read here about how a law firm advised British trans activist to hide their goals, and you can read here how the ACLU blocked a women's request about the number of trans identified males being held in the female estate in Washington.

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"medical transition" were legalized here.

Wait isn't this last bit at least a good thing? For trans Argentinians

I've many problems with that law. Let's start saying that there were no laws regarding "trans" issues before 2012. The only antecedents were a handful of legal cases ruling in favour of trans activists since the late 90's onwards regarding modifying legal documents and getting cosmetic surgeries to look more like the opposite sex. So, we went from 0 to 100 in a single law and there were really not debate about any of this. Newsmedia, regardless of political leanings, spreaded TRA's talking points about the law. MSM not only started deliberately misleading the public by using the "inclusive language" proposed by TRA. They sold the public the lie that this law represented a minor change that will greatly benefict a marginalized demography. There were no questions asked about whether there were a conflict of interest between women and males who claim to be "women", or whether "medically transition" actually works, or whether children should access any of this stuff (note: even pre-schoold kids have been able to to get their sex markers on their legal documents with the approval of their parents), or whether everyone should be forced to play along someone's cross-sex "identity", or whether "identity" should trump over material reality.

The main opposition came from the Catholic Church, which even to this day have little idea of what they are talking about as they lump together feminism, gay rights and trans activism under the name of ideología de género (literally gender ideology). They either can't see or don't want to see any conflict of interest between those groups. Also, religious zealots don't really care much about women, either.

Another problem I have is that I view transgenderism as the newest form of imperialism from the developed world. There are western rich people who are lobbying for this stuff in their home countries and beyond (1, 2, 3). I could talk about how much of this stuff doesn't make sense in languages other than English. For instance, the 2012 law talks about identidad de género (gender identity), but the actual word used in the official documents where the self-ID takes places is sexo (sex).

Now regarding the medical stuff, the law allows giving hormones on demand for minors as long as they have parental approval (or a judge order), and it allow surgeris for minors if they have both parental approval and a judge order. I suppose you'd view this a good thing, but I'm against the "transitioning" minors. And as I see it the risk of suicide is overstated (4).

As for the adult "transition", well, I think medice should be based on science and I believe in that "first, do no harm" stuff. And on one hand, I've yet to see evidence that any of this actually improves mental health(5, 6). On the other hand, there is evidence of all the health risk associated with it (7). And this is something that should be considered because the law not only say that all this stuff must be provided on-demand, but also it must be covered by both private and public health system. And whether the State should pay for this is not a minor detail. We live from economic crisis to economic crisis, wages are always running behind prices, our currency had lost a lot of zeros through history, and there is much corruption and former president Mauricio Macri got the country into an unpayable debt with the IMF (which also means the goverment has to follow their economic receipts that only favour the rich). Our public health system was overwhelmed even prior to the COVID pandemic, too. Yeah, I know some posters here will see me as an extremist, but I cannot get behind trans identified people getting this stuff paid by the State.

Also, apparently even body hair removal by electroysis is considered "trans health care". I mean, seriously? Why can't they just shave? After all, shouldn't shaving be "gender affirming"?

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No? You said it only happens occasionally.

All the people in my life could conspire to play me a big joke and refere to me as a man from now and even so I'll still know that I am a woman. The physical reality of my body will stay the same regardless of how everyone else call me.

If people who would otherwise have been GNC in a world without transition, decide to transition instead of being GNC, then isn't that kind of their decision to make? More GNC people and fewer trans people isn't necessarily a positive (or negative) thing, unless you consider transness to be a negative state. I think that, if this hypothetical kid could end up living a happy life transitioning or not, then whether they do is totally up to them and we shouldn't try to protect them from their own choices.

This hypothetical girl is too young to take such drastic and irreversible decisions. In most places, the law doesn't allow 12 year-olds to vote, drive a car, drink alcoholic beverages, smoke, consent to sexual relationships, get married, live alone, etcetera. No doctor would refer her for tubal ligation because of her young age, yet according to QT she is mature enough to get chemically castrated and get her breasts amputated. It's doubtfull that "transition" will be the panacea she thinks it is and whether she persist or desist from her "new identity" she will become a patient for life (keep in mind that "medical transition" is harsher in the female body as MarkTwainiac has detailed to you in other threads). Her personal relationships may deteriorate because she now will try to control how everyone else sees her and how they speak about her even when she is not present. And, very likely, she won't be able to opt out of sexism and misogyny: trans identified people are stil treated as their actual sex. That is why "transwomen" lead the movement and we mainly heard from "transmen" when they get pregnant...

I was invited and went to girls' sleepovers, I guess because I must have given off an intense gay aura or something.

And the girls' parents were okay with this even thought they knew you weren't a girl?

You literally can tho, u cn tlk lk ths nd ppl cn stl ndrstnd u, language is whatever you make of it! The meanings of words are always contextual and change over time.

And can you understand the following? Ne'a't hojna mjid¨pasd tish w?pt to¡!851 sjoo.añkm ablean airmb na wqimn.

Wait isn't this last bit at least a good thing? For trans Argentinians

I'll answer this in another comment because this may get a bit long...

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My body isn't doing the thinking

But your body IS doing the thinking! All your thoughts are happening inside your brain, which is a part of your body. Your mind doesn't exist independently of your body. And whether you like it or not, your body does influence how you perceive the world. You don't know what it feels like to have a female body anymore than I know what it feels like to be blind. Sure, you could listen to women to get an idea about it, just like I could listen to blind people to understand their experiences; however, you don't have that "lived experience" that you like to talk about. You don't know for instance, what is like worrying about periods (or a lack of them), or whether you may get pregnant, or whether you may be able to access a safe abortion if you ever need it. All that stuff is purely theoretical for you.

And you have yet to tell us why you think you are, or must be, a "woman" besides your own wish to be one. Forget about whether people in your daily life sees you as one or not, why do you started seeing yourself that way before you taked any step to modify your body? I mean, I doubt people in your daily life saw you as "woman" before you tried to physically resemble one, so what did "make" you one back then if no one viewed you that way?

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you runned a farm, I bet you'll care more about your mutant chicken's actual sex rather than its outward appearance. And just you know, there are people whose job is correctly sexing chicks (i.e. when the sexual dimorphism is not that evident at first glance).

Based on previous discussions here and from what I heard from QT elsewhere, it's evident to me that, yes, many people on the QT side have a poor understanding of the human body in general and sex in particular. I've heard it all: how sex is a spectrum (or even a matrix...) becuase intersex or clown fish, or how sex is a social construct because of so called "third genders" in other cultures, or how "pausing" puberty is reversible, how trans identified people must be treated as the oposite sex in a medical setting, how men don't have an athletic advantage over women, how males who reduce their testosterone levels don't have an athletic advantage over women, how males who take estrogene can breastfeed babies, how not even ginecologysts can tell "neovaginas" and vaginas appart, how sex is completely irrelevant even in health care, how males who identify as trans have periods just like women, how males who identify as "women" will get uterus transplants and get pregnant some day, how the vagina is a front hole, how messing with your endocrinological system won't have major side effects, how a "neopenis" is like a penis, how "trans" is real becuase of "brain sex", among another jewels.

But whatever any particular individual who believes in "trans identities" understands about sex, it's clear by looking at the policies and laws they lobbby for that the goal of trans activists is the legal erasure of sex and its replacement for "gender identity". In other words, women won't have words to describle ourselves, neither we will have the ability to name the source of our oppression (i.e. sex), and neither we'll have reliable data to show the extent of sexism and misogyny; and, by identifying as trans, any male will be able to have access to any formerly women's space from public bathrooms to prisons.

The problem is people's sex is very relevant in many areas of life like health care, safeguarding, sports or dating, for instance. And "transition" doesn't undone the relevance of sex. For some easy examples, "transition" doesn't undone the athletic advantage that males have over women neither undones male patterns of criminality.

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It just means that when other people think of you, do they think you're a man or a woman? Dependent on sex characteristics, presentation, information you've told them, etc.

Like I told you, I've been mistaken for a man on the internet; and, because of my somewhat deep voice, a few times I've been mistaken for a boy on the phone and interphone. Does that makes me less of a woman?

Honestly not more than cis people hold sexist ideas of what men or women must be. And yeah that's problematic but I don't see you disputing that sexist men and women are still men or women?

It's like, I do not think that women should have to perform femininity, I know and love women who are unapologetically themselves, who do not conform with every expectation and that's great. Feminity doesn't equal womanhood.

Sexist men are still men and sexist women are still women, of course. It's their ideas about how women and men should be what I take offense at. And in the case of trans identified people those ideas are likely influencing how they perceive themselves. For example, imagine the case of a 12 year-old girl who is perceived as "masculine" for their interest and behaviour: let's say for instance, she has short hair, prefer practical clothes, doesn't wear male-up, likes outdoor acvities and loves action movies among other things. She has been struggling with the body changes brought by puberty like breast growth and periods alongside with the unwanted male attention. She feels like she doesn't fit in and, to complicate matters, she is becoming aware that she is only attracted to girls, not boys. And because she holds some sexist ideas about women and men, some day she concludes her life would be far more easier if she were a typical heterosexual boy. She thinks if she were a boy she would suddenly fit in with her peers and she wouldn't have to deal with periods, unwanted male attention or homophobia. And nowadays, in order to try to "live as man", she could be prescribed GnRH agonists to "pause" puberty and, later, testosterone, and being refered for a bilateral mastectomy. All this with the blessing of the MSM, the medical and political establishments, her teachers and, maybe, even her family; none of whom would question her motivations for "transition" nor would try to help her get more comfortable in her own skin.

But for me, because I want to be far apart from anything masculine, I feel like I must conform to some feminine expectations just to be seen "the right way". That's part of why I've trained my voice and don't go topless, because it would be socially unacceptable for me to sound like a man or to have my breasts shown. It shouldn't be unacceptable, but it is right now.

But why do feel like you need to do this? Why cannot you do whatever you want without rejecting your own body and changing how everyone sees you?

You can use whichever words you want for yourselves! Just don't be surprised if people are confused or need clarification? Like, I'm not stopping you from using the word women? Just, I'm going to use it too because it describes me best..

Didn't you say yesterday that nobody owns words...? Jokes aside, words are important for communication and that is why one cannot change arbitraly the meanings of words and expect to be undertood by everyone else. However, I am NOT the one who is proposing a radical change in language; it's QT who are doing this. Until very recently in human history, saying that women are adult human females would have been an uncontroversial statement. In fact, I can even point out when the shift in language happened in my country, Argentina: it was around 11-12 years ago when newsmedia outlets started refering to trans identified males as "women" with the help of trans activists who "educated" them, and it was in 2012 when self-ID and "medical transition" were legalized here.

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They aren't, unless you consider being perceived to be female as a sexist stereotype regardless of clothes or style.

What does being perceived to be female even means?

Just listening to trans identified people talking about their "authentic selves" makes clear that they often hold very sexist ideas about what a woman or man are. Like there is even a British lobby group who uses (or at least used) an escale between Barbie and G.I Joe to explain "gender identity" to children. There is a trans identified male, Andrea Long Chu (or something like that), who wrote about his experience and states that being female is "an expectan asshole, dead eyes" (you really cannot get more misogynist than that). Oh, and there is also the trans flag (pink and blue? I mean, seriously?). And there are plenty of other examples like that.

Also there's plenty of words or phrases: cis woman, womyn-born-womyn, even adult human female will probably get your meaning across: someone who is a woman and did not undergo any sort of gender transition to become such

Oh, I like how you expect everyone calls you as you see yourself, but women have to acept the words that you deem appropriate for us.

QT: What is a rooster? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, you know what a rooster is. Good. Now, why there cannot be a word that means adult human female? Why do women must be defined based in sexist stereotypes?

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

AIDS is a condition that causes suffering, being trans is not...

This contradicts you following claim:

Read accounts of trans women priests in antiquity, or various trans men who unequivocally described themselves as men or lived their entire lives in hiding. Hormone therapy and transition has been around for nearly a hundred years. It's possible that without it trans people would have learned to cope and been invisible, but you cannot put the genie back into the bottle. It's inhumane.

Please provide links or be more specific.

If you watch the video, she says that they cannot rely on persuading everyone, they need to "get through to the decision makers", aka skipping popular support.

Ah, that part. And how is that any worse trans activists lobbyng lawmakers?

Obviously manipulating because he's abusing her??

Are you implying that all trans people, by our very existence, are abusing women?

What?! I said threathening suicide sounds manipulative. You're are the one interpreting it as all trans identified people are abusing women just by existing.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except transness is not a mental illness, it is a state of being. It's not negative. Dysphoria is negative, but transition helps alleviate it for many. Saying that you want to reduce the number of trans people is super paternalistic and presumes that you know better and should decide our healthcare.

If it is not a mental illness, why do you claim trans identified people will kill themselves if they don't have access to exogenous hormones and cosmetics surgeries? You cannot have it both ways.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

She is advocating for genocide, she is calling to reduce the number of people who transition.

If a resercher working in a cure for AIDS says in a interview she wants to reduce the number of cases, would it be reasonable to assume she is advocating for killing people with AIDS?

They didn't, not at scale. Some were lucky and some reluctantly lived with a hole in their lives they could never fill. I do not necessarily have their strength. Why should we return to that state though? We have access to hormone therapy now, we should not have to give that up.

Source?

Don't you think wanting to infiltrate organizations because you know will never get popular support, which is part of what Helen Joyce called for, sounds manipulative?

When has she said that? Infiltrating implies secrececy, which is more in like with what trans activists do.

Suicide is a cry for help, it's horrible to assume malice from someone who is suffering. It's us telling you "we need this and would rather not live without it" and you saying "well I don't care, you won't manipulate me into caring"

Ok, let's try the following example: a woman is tired of her abusive boyfriend and decides to leave. However upon learning this the boyfriend tells her that if she leaves he will kill himself. Does this sound to you like a cry for help or manipulation to you?

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If a woman is womaning in a public restroom but no man is around to leer at her, does she even exist?

Sorry, I couldn't resist it.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Talk about misrepresenting what Helen Joyce said. For goodnes sake, she is not advocating for genocide and you know it. If you are going to claim trans identified people will kill themselves without exogenous hormones and cosmetic surgeries, then can you tell us how they survived before the 20th century? Also, don't you think threathening suicide to get what you want sounds manipulative?

I just need to know that it's not this bad, that there is still room for us all to compromise and sing together one day.

It's your side the one who rejects any kind of compromise.

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

CAIS women are still women. "Biologically male" is practically a meaningless designator.

Women don't have testes. But that is besides the point because males who identify as trans don't have CAIS, anyway. You're using this medical condition as a gotcha even though the experiences of males with CAIS and the experiences of males who identify as "trans" are completely different.

That depends entirely on your definition of what men and women "are", though?

It's not "my" definition. The two sexes exist regardless of of whether or not you want to give a name to the individuals who belong to the biological category able to produce large gametes and another the individuals who belong to the biological category able to produce small gametes.

Interesting how my being a woman to you depends on whether I bow down and stay quiet, something that women, cis or trans, have been fighting against since the dawn of agriculture.

First, I said nothing about staying quiet. I said you showed no concern for whether women may be hurt as consequences of pro-TRA policies.

Second, I stand by the definition of women a men being biology-based. What I said was a observation about your atitude (and the attitude of other people like you) towards women. An observation that was born from the frustation of hearing all the time about how women must include and prioritize "transwomen" in everything because they are "women" after all. And yet males who claim to be "women" way more often than not show no concern for the needs of women. So, how exactly is the dynamic between women and trans identified males any different from the dynamic between women and men?

Me being a woman is determined by others and what they think, not by me.

If you really think that you being a "woman" is not determined by you, then you should not get upset if someone refuses to view you as one.

It's been literally documented that trans women's breasts are histologically identical to cis women's at the tissue level: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5773616/

This paper is about how the use of exogenous hormones affects the risk of breast cancer on trans identified individuals. It says nothing about breastfeeding. There is no evidence trans identified males are able to breastfeed babies as this article explains.

And no, it's not fair to assume that a trans mother is a porn addict just based on that. Breastfeeding is not a sexual act.

Breastfeeding is not a sexual act, but males cannot breastfeed regardless of how they "identify" as. And you can find countless examples of males who identify as trans explaining how they discovered their "womanhood" through porn.

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't really think any of the GC posters here are "nice" traditionally save maybe worried.

QT posters are neither nice. FAR from it. I don't know why should I be "nice" when the only reason the other side don't call me a nazi or equivalent is because of a rule in the sidebar, which had to be written because of them. And GB is always feigning ignorance about what GC users meant by "women" and "men" even though we know what she meant by "afab" or "amab" despite disagreeing with her terminology.

Sorry, but I'm not a doormat. I'll only be civil enough not to get banned. That it's all.

Flippy left because biology didn't ban a qt user (who honestly i would have banned had I been a mod then)

I wasn't going to ban circling for something that happened before I became a mod right there in circling's thread asking for my removal of the mod team. I'd have never heard the end of it from QT posters if I had done that. And as usual no other mod was around. I asked houseplant if she wanted circling baned and she told me no. Then flippy decided to throw a big tantrum about it and started saying a lot of ridiculous things like my decision would make houseplant leave the sub (right after she said she won't leave because of circling).

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not a mod anymore, so you really don't have to hold back because of what I told you months ago.

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any comment I ignored was because I didn't think it was worth of moderation. You evidently disagree with my criteria, that is all. There are very few spaces where you can question transgederism and I wasn't going to police every wording from GC users just so we have a few more QT users. I stand by my opinion that the lack of QT users is because they are not interested in debating.

Also they are too used to be in a bubble where any question or doubt about transgenderism is treated as heresy and where everyone is forced to use "inclusive" language. Of course they won't like this sub unless we apply the same criteria than elsewhere.

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then go through my posting history and see by yourself I was never the awful and biased mod that you and QT user think I was. Really, go through the mod mail and you can see that even Porcelain_Quetzal was forced to admit I've been fair after a QT user wrote us to complain about me.

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry you can't get away with whatever you want anymore.

That is not true. I've warned off Houseplant and even deleted her comments before. You could easily verify this by looking at the mod log. In fact, I remember that, as soon as I made you a mod, I had to warm both of you so you stoped arguing.

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except I didn't. I said you're right, im sorry, and then self edited. Yesterday. Because I'm not a 10 year old. You're clearly just looking to play the victim though because you completely skimmed over that.

Isn't this a thinly veiled personal attack coming from a mod?

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There are no genes that an afab person has that I don't.

Just you know, there are about 6500 genes that expressed differently in women and men.

Hormones control many sexed development processes from the very beginning. If a male fetus is insensitive to testosterone, then it will develop as externally female externally regardless of an SRY gene.

No, you're wrong. Sex determination is the first step in developing a male or female reproductive system, and that is decided by sex chromosomes as I explained it to you. The actions of sex hormones comes later. Sex development and sex differentiation are quite complex process; so it's unsurprising there are many things that could go wrong. That is why some people have DSDs. In the case of male with CAIS, while they look like women, they are still biologically male and it would not be wise to treat them like females in a medical setting, for instance.

If hormones meant and did nothing, then trans women wouldn't have breasts and be capable of breastfeeding, trans men's voices would not drop and there wouldn't be changes to where and how the body stores fat, no skeletal changes when beginning cross-sex hrt early enough.

I've never said hormones did nothing. I said taking exogenous hormones won't transform a man into a woman or viceversa.

Because tbh I don't care.

Interesting how you call yourself a woman, yet you keep showing, here and in other threads, very little if any concern about how women are harmed by pro-QT policies. It seems like the only "women" you care about are thoses who are born with testes.

Obviously athletes who are just getting to be themselves will probably have more energy for a while.

And it's just an incredible coincidence that the only trans indentified athletes who experience a big boost after "transition" are the males ones, right?

They would undoubtedly create a hostile work environment for me and other coworkers through misgendering etc.

The fact that your first worry is about "misgendering" it's very telling because that has nothing to do with safety. And if you were secure in your own "identity", why would you be bothered by people refering to you by your sex? I've been mistaken for a man on the internet and also on the phone/interphone because I've a deep voice for a woman, and I didn't go through an identity crisis because of that and neither I've ever thought of punishing people for their mistakes.

You can hardly post anything positive as a trans person without some gender critical random saying YWNBAW or something equally inane. There was a trans woman who was beaten up at a protest in the UK. There are parents of trans kids who talk about wanting to punch them (saw this just this morning).

Please provide receipts.

There was a great article about a trans woman breastfeeding her kid and do you know what people said about her? They called her milk "sewage".

It' not possible for a trans identified male to breasfeed his child. You can indeed induce a man to lactate, but there is not evidence that his discharge could provide the same nourishment that a mother's breast milk or even baby formula. A trans identified male trying to breasfeed his child is puting his own feeling about the safety and wellbeing of the baby.

They called her awful things and said she was a fetishist just for trying to feed her kid. They took what should be a beautiful moment (because it really is so amazing to me that such a thing is possible; it gives me hope) and tried to squash it into the dirt.

Considering all the trans identified males who had admitted they discovered their "authentic self" through porn, I think it's fair to question whether a trans identified male has an ulterior motive to "breastfeed" his kid.

We receive plenty of your abuse too

Again, provide receipts, please. And I hope it's something more serious than "misgendering".

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And some people want their perfectly healthy limbs cut off. Does this mean surgeons should affirm "transable" people, too? Should anorexic patients be refered for liposuctions, too?

Wpath and the eunuch archives by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How is HP calliing out derrple's unwinglingness to answer questions and derrple's self-admitted absolute lack of concern for the harms done by "medically transitioning" children and teens a personal attack?

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sex is not just one single factor, it's not just chromosomes.

Actuallly, yes, it's sex chromosomes what determines which sex one developes as. Sex is about reproduction. We're an anisogamic species, which means we reproduce through the production of specialized cells with half the DNA (gametes) of different size. Male individuals are the ones who produce small gametes (spermatozoon) in the testes, and females are the ones who produce large gametes (ovum) in the ovaries. Then, a spermatozoon and an ovum fuse to form the zygote, restoring this way the normal amount of DNA. In humans, there are several genes involved in the process of sex determination, but one of the most important is the SRY gen. If this gen is present, then the embryo will develop testes. If not, then it’ll will develop ovaries. The hormones secreted by the testes drive the male differentiation pathway for the rest of the male reproductive organs. And the absence of these hormones drives the female differentiation pathway. As the SRY gen is located in the Y chromsome, XX individuals are females and XY individuals are males.

There are some people who have a disorder of sexual development (DSD), but they are rare and they are still either male or female, i.e. they don't produce a third type of gamete.

Who cares about what chromosomes trans people have when you will never see them?

First, we know trans identified people are mostly either unambigous 46, XY males or 46, XX females.

Second, we don’t need to examine someone’s chromosomes or gametes to tell their sex. Secondary sex characteristics don’t define sex, but they are usually a good way to tell someone’s sex. We have evolved to be able to tell the sexes apart. If we weren’t able to say who kind of humans are able to get pregnant and what kind of humans can impregnate the former our continuity as species will be quite complicated. Taking sex hormones and undergoing cosmetic surgeries in order to look more like the opposite sex may make this harder, but it's still possible to tell trans identified people sex in many cases.

Transition tech is focused on sex hormones which provide a great deal of physical changes, including fat redistribution and breast development for trans women.

But, as I said exogenous hormones can only bring superficial changes, which is why there are so many trans identified male athletes who experience a big boost in their carreers as soon as they switch into the female categories (a point you have just ignored). There was also a case of a trans identified female who, because she had her medical records changed to state she is "male", found out in the harsh way being treated as a male in a medical setting can put her health and life at risk.

but you should consider that the trans people more likely to "pass" to you are also more likely to not reveal themselves as trans to people, so it's just confirmation bias

Maybe, but I think this claim is throw around to make it seem like there are way more "passing" trans identified people than we think while providing no data to back it up. And at the end of the day, "passing" as the opposite sex doesn't make you the opposite sex. It only means you have successfuly concealed your sex, but I don't one can hide the truth from all people all the time even if one tried very hard to do so.

I mean I'd never tell my coworkers because what if one of them is GC? I'd never hear the end of it and I'd feel super unsafe.

On what do you base this belief that you would be unsafe if any hipothetical GC coworker were to learn your sex? Depending on where you live/work said coworker would have more basis to fear being fired or harrased for their political beliefs on these issues, particular if said coworker were a woman. For example:

J. K. Rowling and the trans activists: a story in screenshots

Etsy bans craft-maker from selling 'I love JK Rowling' items that 'promote hatred'... while promoting badges and cards carrying slogan 'F*** JK Rowling'

The children's author CANCELLED by her publisher after backing J.K. Rowling: GILLIAN PHILIP tells how she was left to fear for her young readers in a world where daring to speak your mind can spell disaster

New York literary agent who 'stands with J K Rowling' is fired for retweeting comment that read, 'being vulnerable to male violence does not make you a woman' on her personal Twitter account

LGBTQ Blog Publishes List Of Female Athletes’ Names, Harassing Them For Asking NCAA To Protect Women’s Sports

Transgender Activists Threaten Feminist for Focusing on Male Violence Against Women

Two Oregon Educators Fired After Speaking Out About Gender Identity Policies

Cancelled by Childline: Ex-barrister lost his job as a volunteer counsellor with the charity after raising fears over the way children confused about their gender are rushed into changing sex

The trans lobby can't bully me into silence: It’s the bitterest of ironies — how this academic studying violence against women was targeted by protesters with balaclavas simply for attending a feminists’ meeting

How the Fight Over Transgender Kids Got a Leading Sex Researcher Fired

David Bell: Tavistock gender clinic whistleblower faces the sack

Oxford professor given protection following threats from trans activists

It wasn’t just the students spreading lies and hounding me... It was many of my academic colleagues too: KATHLEEN STOCK reveals what it’s really like to be vilified for your beliefs after being driven out of Sussex University by trans hate mob

Open University criminology professor who said 'male-bodied' trans women should NOT be in female prisons suffers public harassment and is compared to a 'racist uncle at Christmas dinner table' for her gender critical beliefs

Woman Brutalized for Refusing to Bow to Compelled Pronouns & Public Recognition of Transgender-Identifying Male

Police Do Nothing as Trans Activist Mob Terrorizes Attendees, Kicks Windows, Screams, at Woman’s Place UK Meeting

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Saying "transition" technology is just less effective for trans identified poeple is a big understatement. "Transition" is not possible because there is technology to actually change someone's sex. In order to do that, you'd need to change someone's sex chromosomes in their every cell and somehow undone the development of their reproductive system and trigger the devopment of the reproductive system of the opposite sex. Exogenous hormones and cosmetic surgeries can only provide supperficial changes, and the results of "medical transition" are often, particularly for trans identified males, not very convincing. It's not wonder that trans identified male athletes often experience a big boost after switching to women's leagues unlike trans identified female athletes who are far away from conquering men's sports.

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what motivates people like London beyond an unhappiness with their own bodies, but to me the way he talks about how he discovered his claimed "Korean" identity feels very simillar to the way trans identified people tend to talk about themselves.

I think if one accepts transgenderism as valid, it wouldn't be logical to reject transracialism. After all, unlike sex, race is actually a spectrum and there are far more biological differences between women and men than between people of different races. Culture is also malleable, again unlike sex, and can be learned, too. And much of what is understood by race rely on stereotypes made up to justify the domination of a group of people by another.

That said, I personally don't believe Oli London is Korean anymore than I believe Ellen Page is a man, i.e you cannot change your heritage anymore than you can change yoursex. Also, if "transracialism" became an accepted thing, I can see how racist people would use it in their own benefict and I understand why Korean people are entertained by his claims.

I don't think I'm qualified to say if there is such a thing as race dysphoria as a medical condition or if it's simptomatic of something else. But if it were officially recongized as a medical condition, I don't people with it should be treated with surgeries and affirmation. I don not think his cosmetic surgeons are making Oli London any favour by encouraging him to chase an impossible dream.

Should GC feminists stop associating with conservatives on topics in which they’re interests are aligned? by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it would be self-defeating for American feminists to limit their reach by not using conservative platforms. I mean, it's not like liberal media will suddenly allow any trans critical view. And they are going to be called conservative not matter what they do, anyway.

Then again, from my point of view, both conservativism and liberalism are right wing ideologies, and I don't trust liberal media anymore than I do conservative one. But for what I've seen many American women do care a lot about not being associated with conservatives. And in spite of how much they hate to be smeared as conservatives by TRAs, they don't have any problem in using the same tactics over anyone who criticizes US foreign policy. So...

QT: Oli London (a British man) has come out as a "Korean woman". Can you explain how being "transgender" is any different than being "transracial"? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry for the late reply. Yes, I think Oli London has likely a addiction to plastic surgery. I'm not sure whether he has came to identify as a "woman" as result of that or if he is just trolling the people who rejected his "Korean identity".

It's true that there is no a medical condition equivalent to gender dysphoria, but I'll argue that is because anti-racism groups have been more successful in arguing against "transracialism" than feminists have been in arguing against "transgenderism". So, if, for instance, the DMS were to add something like race dysphoria there would likely be a major backlash, and racial minorities would quickly point out they cannot identify out of their opression. I think, the problem if that for many people sexism is something that not longer exists or it only exists in "backward" countries. If sexism is acknowgeled, it's said often that women are not opressed because of our sex, but because of our "femininity".

Oregon's "Menstrual Dignity Act" will require schools to put menstruation products in boy's bathrooms by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Scottish schoolgirls ‘boycott gender-neutral toilets’

From the article (bolding mine):

The introduction of gender-neutral toilets in Scottish schools hasn’t panned out as activists hoped, with girls in one school reportedly refusing to use the facilities due to misbehaviour and vandalism by boys.

[...] Scottish Borders Councillor Harry Scott told a council meeting on Thursday that in one school, “there have been instances of boys waving sanitary products like flags and urinating in sanitary bins,” according to the Southern Reporter.

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those 11 likes are unlikely to be an additional 11 people, right? 10 of those 11 likely overlap with the other reply. As a former mod you should know that it's highly unlikely that the post we are talking about received the engagement of over 20 individuals.

Those 2 comments are different enough that is not unlikely they've not been upvoted by the same people. At the very, as you cannot know who upvoted what, you cannot be sure that your idea had unanimous support. And, let's not forget you never specified what exactly you meant by "identfying as transgender".

Please stop assuming I'm too stupid to see through these gas-lighting attempts.

Pointing out the flaws and half-truths in your reasoning is not gaslighting.

Your entire reply is opposing my previous question on here, instead of the current one.

I already answered you in other comments why I think your "brilliant" idea won't work.

Just ask yourself: how did a supposed troll end up being more well-read on feminism than you?

eyesrolling Yes, Snow, it's wonderfull that you have learnt so well all the lessons of so many feminists books so you can teach all the silly women how they must fight sexism and misogyny. However, if you want to impress me even more, I'd suggest you pick up next some high school biology books, from which you can read very advanced concepts about genetics like the existence of sex chromosomes and sex-linked inheritance.

[Both] What do you think of "The DIY HRT Directory"? Good or bad? by ISaidWhatISaid in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not longer a mod, but I'll advice against providing links. What they do is pontentially unlawful and, without a doubt, dangerous. Drugs are not harmless candies that anyone can make or took even when they are medically necessary.

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

10 is not much better than 3. And Sloane's comment about there being already enough males who identfying as trans exposing the truth unintentionally got 11 likes. So, where is the unanimous support you are talking about? I remember when I saw your other thread months ago I though saying no because of the high probability of men acting like jerks under the excuse of "making a point". But I decided saying nothing because it would likely started another argument with you complaining I had something against you. But, really, you've proved me right, Snow.

Anyway, let's not forget you asked a very different question in the other thread. You never specified what exactly you meant by "identifyng" as trans. Even now, it's not clear what you plan to do once you got your documents changed. Do you know what this reminds me about? TRA making polls about public support for "trans rights" without specifying what those "rights" entail, so the can later claim the public supports the elimination of any women's space for instance. So, are you planning to all the TRA's tactics from now on?

Honestly, I'm not sure either what exactly you expect we do. You jump from saying we should do to "win" arguments (which would not require any paperwork) to pretending to be men online (which would not require paperwork either) to do infiltration work (which doesn't sound wise if you don't have the training or the resources to pull this off). At this point I can only think you have to be trolling us, Snow.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You'd really benefit from learning more about the world. There are places in the world where women are sistematically hurt for a lack of access of sex-seggregated restrooms and here you are asking for no more women's spaces of any kind.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why does Washington state not want its citizens learn how many "transwomen" are housed in women's prisons? That is a blue state, isn't it? Why would they have anything to fear?

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But that's the point that I was making. Nowadays words speak louder than actions. If TRAs can't respect the meanings of words like 'feminism', why should we respect words like 'transgender'?

Sorry, but I'm old-school and I think actions speak louder than words. Imo, the best defense against such liars is exposing the truth. I call nonsense when local politicians pretend to care about poverty in spite of them keep pushing for the same old economic receipts that only work for making them and their friends richer. I call nonsense when local politicians push for economic austerity under the excuse of attracting foreing investement when they have all their money abroad. I call nonsense when local politicians pretend to be democratic despite having ties to the dictatorships. I laugh at western Media and politicians pretending to be outraged by war just now despite all the wars they have supported or waged. I find completely absurd the US wants to held Russia accountable for war crimes despite not only all their own war crimes, but the fact the US have worked hard for not being held accountable in the International Criminal Court.

If anything, it would be incoherent on my part not to call out the "feminists" who push for the legal erasure of sex or the legalization of prostitution.

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I know there are only a few active users here, but it's misleading when you claim to have unanimous support when only 3 people replied you and more so because you didn't explain you planned to get your sex "legally changed". Even now, you are not explaining what you plan to do after that. You're a man and you say you're living in a country that is not that captured by transgenderism, so what would you get out of this?

Do you even understand we're not spies? Do you understand that nobody really believes TWAW and, therefore, everyone will recognize us as women? Do you understand TRAs turn against their own all the time for not being idelogically pure enough?

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Harassing a trans person in the bathroom means jail time. In my state its illegal to harass people who use restrooms that don't align with their birth sex.

Do you understand that laws are not always fair and the likehood of them being unfair increases when they are discussed behind closed doors and the general public is fed a lot of lies or half truths?

Also, you're again extrapolating American politics into the rest of the world. I don't think this is very intersectional of you.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one is asking for trans identified people not to use public restrooms. We're asking for restrooms to be sex-seggregated, which is not the the same. And I repeat, this is not only about restrooms even if you keep trying to only adressing them. Would you tell me, for instance why the Washington state don't want their citizens to learn how many trans identified male inmates are being housed in women's prissons?

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you have anything to say about my comment about how females prisoners are outnumbered by males in EVERY country? And waht about how the "women" who coincidentaly have comparable rates of criminality with men are males who identify as trans (aka "transwomen")?

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why should I care whether Lauren Southern, whoever she is, has legally "changed" her sex? I already told you why your idea makes no sense. Opting out of womanhood isn't working that well for females who identify as "men", Why would pretending we identify as "men" work better for us?

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Let me guess, your boycot will involve going into the women's restroom, right? But "only" to make a point, right?

I asked on here if me doing so would be good or bad for feminism, the response was a unanimous: good for feminism.

You never explained what exactly you wanted to do, and you got only 3 replies, anyway.

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/8qwr/gc_should_gc_men_identify_as_transgender_to/

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It won't work because everyone knows who is a man and who is a woman, even if TRAs won't say it out loud. And TRAs are unlikely to buy this farse if we don't look the part and we speak out against any TRA talking point.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, women can be violent, too. However, there are far more violent men.

Here is a chart showing the percentage of female inmates with data from 2010. Maldives had the biggest percentage of female inmates at 21%, but even that is an anomaly. Females represent 10% or less of prison population in most countries.

If we look at recent numbers from England and Wales, women make up just 4% of sentenced inmates. Yet "transwomen" make up around 80% of trans identified inmates. And you have to keep in mind that females are less likely than males to be sentenced for violent crimes, too.

At England and Wales again, 99& of sex offenders are males.

A 2011 study from Sweden about trans identified people who undergone full "SRS" also found that males who identify as trans retain male patters of criminality.

The fact males prisoners outnumber female ones by a large margin also means that recording some males as "females" because they identify as such data regarding differences between men and women's criminality will be distorted.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. 40% is still a lot of women you're asking to have their boundaries ignored in the benefict of the feeling of what... about 1% percent of men (using sex-based definitions, here)?

  2. It's not clear to me how many of those 60% of women knows that: most males who identify as "women" (aka "transwomen") do keep their penises, they do retain male patterns of criminality, most of them are sexually attracted to women and most of them discovered their "authentic selves" through porn. All of which could change their opinion on the matter of restrooms.

  3. You keep trying to center on restrooms and, maybe, changing rooms, but those are far from the only places where sex-seggregation is important for the safety and dignity of women. Speaking of which, could you explain to me if "transwomen" inclussion in women's spaces is so important for most Americans, why do the Washington state is so bent of making sure its citizens don't learn how many males claiming to be "women" there are in the female estate?

  4. Even if all American women were okay with the elimination of sex-seggregated spaces, why the rest of the world should follow suit? For all their empty talk about "intersectionalism", American liberals surely sound a lot like your typical American imperialists. Why does Joe Biden thinks he has the duty to lecture the world about the importance of "gender identity"? How is this is any different from the US playing world police and thinking itself as the bringer of democracy and human rights around the world (which, "curiously", involves a lot of invading foreign countries, war propaganda, overthrowing democratic goverments they don't like, assassinations, torturing suspected terrorists, arming extremists that suit their own interests, imposing economic sanctions, etcetera) as usual? Sorry, but I'm tired of Americans thinking they should shape the politics of any other country under the excuse of human rights.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Says the guy who claimed the existence of sex chromosomes and sex-linked inheritance is advanced level biology that people from English speaking countries don't learn about before going to university.

The people at Tavistock joked that soon there wouldn't be any more gay people in England because so many of their patients were same-sex attracted. But even if ROGD teen girls were all heterosexual, why are you putting them in the same bag as midle ages AGP? Especially when the latter are likely to be among their groomers.

GC: Why don't you get your gender identity legally changed? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Is this a joke? Why on Earth would I want to contribute to spreading chaos even further than TRAs are already doing? As for the supposed, privileges... Please, we all can see how females who identify as trans are talked over by the males all the time. At the end of the day even the most ardent believer of transgenderism knows who is a man and who is a woman.

And for the last time, I do NOT have a "gender identity". You act as obnoxious as QT every single time you insist I have one.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And how males claiming to be "women" (aka "transwomen") answer you back when you tell them something like this? Because most of them DO want access to places like women's restrooms, etcetera rather than unisex places with individual and private cubicles as you'd prefer...

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what are you talking about. I was just objecting to Snow's comment. I'm not denying there are teen girls identifying as "gay men" nor I'm justifying their behaviour.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Facts don't stop being facts just because they aren't told in the nicest way possible.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never said you personally did any of those things. I just pointed out the typical QT behaviour. You came here saying you were worried about your trans identified sibling, and saying GC was too rude to QT while ignoring QT bad behaviour. I just assumed you were QT because that seemed the most likely explanation.

Anyway, I insist, QT have made quite clear they don't want to debate and they want to shut down GC voices. There is no point in pretending QT just don't come here because we are too rude or that both sides are equally bad.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

As far as I read most ROGD teen girls are same-sex attracted. Among trans identified youth, you can observe many more teens with mental illnes and history of trauma than in the general population. From what I heard from detrans females females who identfy as trans, many of them seem to be trying to escape mysogyny and sexist expectations regardless of their sexual orientation. So, even when talking about heterosexual girls who claim to be really "gay men" just like in yaoi, I don't think is accurate to say they're just appropriating gay identities (disclaimer: I'm not justifying their behaviour towards gay men, although I'll argue female do not pose the same threath to gay men than males do to lesbians). Besides, we know many children and teens of both sexes are being groomed by adults and, thus, they have not discovered their "true authentic selves" on their own.

And to complicate matters, I've heard of some cases where the "gay" identified females are really females who identify as "men" dating each other.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That is a new low for you, snow, you saying ROGD teen girls are just appropriating GNC gay people (you sure you didn't mean just GNC gay men) and don't deserve sympathy. And you putting them in the same bag as AGP men. And yet you think of yourself as THE feminist expert...

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you think GC users in this sub are as bad as TRA on Twitter, then you're not applying the same standards. Where are all the death and rape threaths, the doxxing, etcetera? I already intervene when arguments get more heated up than usual. If you think we need to get more severe with the moderation, then I assure you there are going to be even less QT posters here.

Worried19, you may not want to hear this, but QT have made quite clear they are NOT interested in debate. It was QT who got the old sub banned. They were the ones who celebrated the ban and chose not to come over here. The posters who came here are not shy about how much they like GC dicourse being shut down in mainstream plataphorms. And the only reason they aren't calling us nazis or acussing us of causing mass suicides every five comments is because we added rules against it to make them stop.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's policing women because QT are NOT hold to the same standards. Why is always on us to behave better? Why act as if both sides are rude when one side is objectively far worse in how they behave.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, given that you want to talk about self-criticism, maybe you should have a look at how QT posters behave. Seriously, I'd say they are way more rude in average than GC poster despite being only a handfull of them. The rules banning rules nazi comparisons and banning baseless acussations (like suggesting saying x thing will lead to suicide/genocide) have to be added because of QT.

And giving your talk about fun, let me tell you that I don't find fun arguing with a bunch of people who act like if they were making a big favour by showing up here. I don't find fun arguing with a bunch of people who believe I'm akin to nazis. I don't find fun arguing with a bunch of people who cannot answer basic questions about their own beliefs (I 'm still waiting for QT tell me what is a woman, you know?) I don't find fun arguing with a bunch of people who keep denying all the evidence about how pro-QT policies hurt women and children. I don't find fun arguing with a bunch of people who ask me to care above and beyond about the feeling of males who identify as trans (aka "transwomen") while they show no emphaty for women.

Also, let's not forget it was QT who got the old sub banned and that is why we're here right now. Let's not forget that QT posters here aren't shy about admitting how much they love the fact GC discourse is shut down in a lot of mainstream plataforms. So, maybe we can stop pretending there are few QT users here because of all the mean GC users when QT have made clear they are NOT interested in debate.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL, since when the BBC is a T*** mouthpiece? Just further proof than QT finds anything "transphobic".

I already told you I'm tired, I'm not going to keep arguing.

And yes, redact out the T-slur or I'm going to delete both comments.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have nothing in common with that cheating pervert!!!

You now what, just forget what I said. Arguing with you is frustating in the best of circunstances and I'd already enough online arguing for the rest of the month before beginning this conversation.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cis means someone primarily identifies with their birth sex. For instance, if you were born female and identify as a woman, you would be considered a cis woman. You don't have to conform to any stereotypes and roles. You can have short hair, wear ties, work long hours in construction and prefer video games instead of shopping at the mall, and still be considered cis.

We're already have this conversation before. I do NOT "identify" as a woman. I am one. This is a matter of biology, not ideology. And you have admitted before that being "cis" implies to accept sex-based stereotypes as innate.

This is why we use terms like cis and trans when relevant.

Not, this is why SEX is relevant. Thomas' "gender identity" have nothing to do with his atlethic advantage or his behaviour in changing rooms or the fact society pander and defend him.

If other women are not allowed to expose their genitalia, then neither should she. If that’s the case, she should absolutely be charged with exhibitionism and voyeurism. If the other women are allowed to expose their genitalia, why can’t she? Genitalia is genitalia, regardless if it's a penis, vagina or something ambiguous.

...

What is the difference between Thomas and a naked man who don't "identifies" as the opposite sex and gets into the female changing rooms?

Many people including myself would not read/watch media and outlets that use the wrong pronouns for people.

So, you like being lied to?

Yes.

Yeah, I though so. Now, tell me why do you think men would not lie about their "gender identity" for their own benefit?

Again, you can't ban someone from a place because they might commit a crime or because of what demographic they belong to.

... I can't with you! Why are you so against prevention?!

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, how can I be silencing natal women when I'm a natal woman myself?

You're admiting in this very comment how you want the women you disagree with to be silenced. Also do NOT use the T-slur here.

40% is still a large amount of women to dismiss. You are telling all those women they should ignore their own boundaries only because you think so.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those are cis women. You can say the category.

"Cis" imply that someone believe in sex-based stereotypes and they conform to the stereotypes and roles expected from their sex (the biological category, you know?). I don't know what Thomas' female teammates really think about these issues, but I think is a safe bet they are likely very aware about the phisiological differences beetween Thomas and them, and how they are treated very different by society.

Lia Thomas is a she.

Please, tell us how do you know Thomas is a "woman". Is the way his swimsuit highlight his very obviously male body? Is the sport dominance that nowadays he shows by winning and breaking records in the pool despite that he was a mediocre athlete when he competed with fellow men? Is the penis he exposes to his teammates in the changing rooms? Is the fact he is guity of exhibiotionism and vouyerism, two crimes that are mostly commited by males? Is the way he can get away with it like most men do? Is the way the Media, the university, and sport authorities keep choosing to defend him over the women affected by his actions inside and outside the pool? Is the way his female teammates feel they can't publicly speak out under their own name? Is the way society expects women to coddle him even when is against their own interest? Is the way his critics have to preface their arguments saying they respect his "identity" and that he is not to blame about what is happening? Is the way even critical Media uses feminine pronouns to describe this man?

I'm being serius here, genderbender, why do you think this man is any sort of "woman"? Is all because he SAYS he is a "woman"? Is that enough to qualify as a one? Do you not only believe that some men are really "women", but men are unable to lie about their "gender identity?

QTs are not against boundaries, we just have a different idea of boundaries than GCs. For instance, we think its harassment for a cis woman to tell a random trans woman in a restroom she doesn't belong. Since restrooms are separated by stalls, you already have all the privacy. I know the argument that a trans woman may implant a camera, which cis women are also capable of doing, but you can't ban someone from a public place because they might commit a crime. It doesn't work that way.

QTs feel trans women are women and trans men are men. Most QTs believe however no one is owed sex and rapists should be prosecuted. That's what I meant when I said queer theorists are not about breaking boundaries.

Do you want I give you again those links showing how trans identified males (aka "transwomen") retain male patterns of criminality and how unisex restrooms are more dangerous for women?

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You keep telling us how women (the kind that produces large gametes, you know) do NOT have a right to single-sex spaces, and yet here you are saying consent is important for queer theory. I mean, really?

Do you think Lia Thomas, who is sexually atracted to women, cares about consent went he exposes his intact male genitalia in the changing rooms despite the female swimmers have made clear their disconfort? Do you think the university staff care about consent when they tell the women to get over their disconfort?

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not possible to compromise over language because the discussions are in great part over language. What is a woman is at the heart of of our discussions. Using QT terminology would only ofuscate what we are trying to say.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Moving to another platform/website

Where? We're here because everywhere else we'd be banned for "transphobia".

It seems like there needs to maybe be a firm compromise of language for both 'sides'

Yeah, right. We know exactly which side would be one who had to compromise. QT has proven time and time again they are going to compromise in anything.

Spending more time on Twitter has led me to believe that increasing extremism on either 'side' is turning more people off from TRA & GC. It's definitely made me reach 'peak GC', even if I still hold more GC beliefs.

Please, provide the receipts of GC sending rape and death threaths, doxing, getting people fired, and physically assaulting QT. Or is that you have different criteria about what is extremism for QT and GC?

I realize that language is a significant (if not maybe the most significant) part of the overall debate, and controlling the way others speak and express themselves is a major turn-off.

Exactly, how are we supposed to argue effectively if we compromise on language?

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sex is the sex you identify, present and pass as. If a trans man was on T for a couple of years, had top and bottom surgery, presents and passes as a man then he can go to a gay orgy or gay sauna.

So, would you tell this hypothetical "transman" to get her prostate checked (even though she doesn't have one)? Could this "transman" get a woman pregnant?

And what about animals? How does sex work in animals? Do they get to choose which sex they "identify as"? Could there be such a thing as a milking bull, for example?

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought QT claimed super gays were transphobic?

Also, can you define what is sex? Because it seems you are using to mean different things. Sometimes you use to mean whether someone is male or female (using biological based terms here), and sometimes you use to mean wheather someone has undergone body modifications to resemble the opposite sex or not (as if sex change was actually possible).

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They can, but it's unlikely a hidden camera in a restrooms was placed by a woman. Sex offenses are overwheling done by males.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.oxfordlearnersdictionaries.com/definition/english/modesty?q=modesty

modesty

2 - the action of behaving or dressing so that you do not show your body or attract sexual attention

The word modesty is appropriate when talking about stalls. Some people may use your own words to justify why they are not necessary at all.