Everything Else! 6/15/22 by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Can you link the articles? I’m just curious. I did read about the FINA/women’s swimming decision but I haven’t heard of the age limit or healthcare stuff

Everything Else! 6/15/22 by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hope your move went well!

Lemon meringue is so good, a bit tricky to make imo but fun to try out.

What’s scaring you in the news?

Everything Else! 6/15/22 by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

All of this is so great! Congratulations!!!!

And that pie sounds amazing and now I must make one

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I did lol was multitasking and mis typed

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What I meant is just that I can kind of sense you’re going through a lot, even if it just seems like emotional a lot to me because I don’t know your life lol, and I just don’t want to push you, I guess? I know it’s mostly you responding and I know I have a sharp tongue (errr… finger?) so I just wanted to back off.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t have preferred pronouns lol

I wouldn’t gaf if you called me he

Cox is an obvious man

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So as of now it is immutable and you’re claiming that it isn’t and that makes no sense to me.

Like you’re saying you’ll just deny reality because you can’t accept it, and I understand why, but it doesn’t change reality.

Your responses are honestly a bit alarming and I don’t want to push you or cause any upset so I think maybe I’ll just stop. I’m honestly concerned by your answers and I can’t do anything for you and I just don’t want to idk. I don’t want you to not be okay because I said something

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s my point, you reject the actual bio proof that exists but would want us to accept something that doesn’t exist if it did. That doesn’t track to me. If you’re saying when or if a trans person can change sex it’s kind of odd to not accept the biological proof we have currently.

I think the goal of trans people should be acceptance for being trans, not trying to convince the rest of us that you’re the opposite sex than you are. I’d be significantly more comfortable sharing some spaces and using pronouns as a courtesy if this is how things were, personally.

Sex is factually immutable. It just is. I don’t really know what else to say about it.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sex is immutable. You can change characteristics indicative of sex but sex itself remains unchanged.

I get what you’re saying about being invisible, I was just speaking in general. I don’t believe most trans people pass but I don’t deny that some can. Even when I was an ally and staunch believer in TWAW and TMAM, in my experience most people don’t see them as the sex they wish, but agree it’s not costing them anything to call them what they prefer.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It wouldn’t matter because a biological basis would prove that dysphoria exists and we already understand that dysphoria exists. There is a biological basis for knowing what and proving what a woman is but you reject that so it’s odd you’d ask this. I don’t understand how you can ask about a biological basis to prove your point but can’t accept the biological basis that proves mine? We can see brain scans that show dysphoria in trans people. This doesn’t prove they are the sex/gender they wish they were. We can see all types of mental conditions/anomalies through brain scans. So even if you’re sense of identity emerges from that, it doesn’t change material reality.

I would respect and be friends with (I am friends with someone like this) a TW who can accept being a TW and not claim to be a woman. If you are calling yourself a woman (hypothetical TW you, not derrple you) and claiming to identify as a woman, that’s a red flag for me. It lets me know you think womanhood is a sense of identity that anyone can claim and that’s insulting to me. And it makes me wonder if you’d (again hypothetical TW you, not derrple you) take opportunities designated for females from females (like scholarships or jobs etc).

There is no amount of trying that will make a TW belong with women. That doesn’t mean that women and TW have nothing in common on an individual basis or that women shouldn’t be friends with TW or anything like that, it also doesn’t mean that when a woman dislikes a particular TW it’s because they are trans, it just means there’s a barrier you can’t cross and it’s not your fault or my fault or anyone fault that that barrier exists, but the barrier should be respected.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Does it ever occur to you that maybe your abuse as a boy impacted you having dysphoria and identifying as your perception of a woman? Genuinely asking, not making a point tho it does seem like it’s a factor to me.

My point is still that dyed or not, you’re literally a blonde. Sex isn’t something that can be changed, and woman is a sex based term. Being blonde means you have blonde hair, being a woman means you’re an adult female human.

You’re still relying on people’s kindness when they call you trans woman with the space. To most people transwoman/trans woman is just code for man. We may understand it to refer to a type of man who wants to present as a woman,and we may be kind enough to call them she/her and not call them men, but it’s still just a word we use out of politesse, it doesn’t mean we mean it or believe it. Same for transmen/trans men. It translates to us as a type of woman who wants to present as a man.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s baked in only because you have a mental condition though. That’s the issue. If you could prove it based on things that aren’t feelings or appearance it would be different.

You cannot respect women and call yourself one and truly think you are one.

I don’t think it would be valid even if you personally convinced them.

I was joking about listening to your brain lol

Your explanation does make sense. Thank you

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you have any idea how much I’d rather be wrong?! It would be so much easier for me to accept TW are women. The reason I can’t do that is because it can’t be proven. I’d rather believe it because regardless I have to be effected by it.

Why is it better to be called a boy if a boy is still a male? I just don’t get this.

If You dyed your hair blonde you’re a blonde though? Like not naturally but you can actually truly really have blonde hair. If your roots show people would know it’s not natural but you’d still be blonde? Sex doesn’t work that way, though. I have no problem in theory calling TW transwomen, but when TW call themselves women I stop using the term TW and just call them men. If they can’t just refer to themselves as TW then I’m not going to either, but I’m not going to pretend they are a woman. If you had never called yourself a woman id have never called you a man. I have no issue with using the term transwoman here.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would live like that because I don’t expect a group of people unrelated to me to be sacrificed for my feelings. I would also live like that because it’s the truth of the situation regardless of how that makes me feel. It wouldn’t impact my life other than when I have to pee. I’d make that choice for women because I stand by women and respect them, even the ones I don’t know, even the ones who disagree with me (though they’d have no basis to disagree about me being a TW because I acknowledged it’s the result of a mental condition and I’m still a man)

I never said I’d apologize for it, I said I’d be honest about it and would find people who accepted me for me instead of having to conceal a huge part of myself from them.

What I’m saying is that you said the people who know you’re trans met you online. They were already pro TW in female spaces so this isn’t a big deal

Let me be clear- my comments feel aimed at you specifically because you keep referring to yourself, what I’m saying I’m saying about TW in general, not derrple as a person. If you would leave if you knew someone was uncomfortable but you use those spaces because generally you pass, I don’t really have an issue with that. As I said over and over, if you pass you pass and nobody knows so nobody is uncomfortable. Other TW don’t care if they pass or not. They feel entitled simply because they are TW

It’s not my belief, it’s provable fact though

Idk maybe listen to your brain in the morning

Im confused, why do you think this way in the mornings? Like what causes it? I’m just curious because I’d think based on your comments thst you’d never think this. If it’s too personal I understand

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Lmao to almost all of this comment. It’s all been addressed multiple times by multiple people on this post so I’m moving on

-2. So once again you can prove nothing. Shocker.

-3. I’ll call you a boy then, although if you’re over 18 you’re an adult regardless of whether you finished puberty just as you’re a man regardless of how you look or feel

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im so sure everyone believes you’re female 🙄 even if they do- you aren’t. So I don’t know why you keep saying this lol

I can’t know for sure and neither can you but if I’m the same person just with dysphoria I’d know I was a man (assuming you mean I’m a TW) and I’d tell people I have a condition treated through transition and I’d prefer if I were referred to as she her because proper pronouns trigger me, if they aren’t comfortable with that I’d ask for neutral pronouns. I would not make my disorder other peoples responsibility not would I invade female spaces. I’d do all of the things I suggested to you. Because I Respect women.

So you found a bunch of tras and act like it means anything that people who already drank the kool aid invited you to invade female spaces? Lmao

Like I said, if you pass you pass and no one knows. Doesn’t make it okay just means nobody knows. But if someone does notice you should remove yourself imo

It was absurd and homophobic because lesbians are women. TW are not. It’s not the same. It’s not transphobic to know you’re not a woman and not want to make you an exception to sex based anything just because that’s what you want.

I already explained why female bathrooms are obviously meant for females. So no, we don’t have a say.

You are literally biologically factually entirely truly absolutely a man lol

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Keep hope alive I guess. It’s never gonna happen and it’s honestly kind of comforting in a twisted way to know that no matter what TW take from us, they can’t ever achieve their goal.

Im sure someone will find out and will care and you won’t care that they care but go off

Being a homosexual has nothing to do with this? Gay men are still men and gay women are still women so this is irrelevant. It would be homophobic of someone to not want a member of the same sex to use the correct sex based spaces just because that person is gay. It’s not transphobic to want sex based spaces to be sex based. It’s safeguarding.

You’re not responsible for making everyone feel comfortable. It’s just shitty of you to make people feel uncomfortable in spaces you shouldn’t be in to begin with.

Show me a neutral, reputable source that claims man and woman are genders, and I will apologize for misgendering you and only refer to you as male from here on out. If you can’t, I’ve done nothing wrong.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. Just because you have female friends you relate to doesn’t mean you’re a woman lol. I have more male friends than female

-2. Saying that you can become or live like a woman is false because you have to be a female to do those things. You literally just said if you were female the definition would work for you. So you admit that you only can’t accept it because it doesn’t apply to you. You admit to wanting to redefine or misuse a word that has a meaning that makes sense even to you just because it doesn’t fit you. That’s ridiculous and selfish as fuck but I respect that you admitted this

-3. So you’ll listen to women who know you (how do they know you’re trans if you aren’t honest? Like do they even know you’re a te in their space? If they did, some may feel differently). If I personally knew a TW and I trusted them I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable or unsafe. Other women in that space may so it’s not ok for your friends to give a man permission. It’s not just my space or your friends space and women allover have been pretty vocal about feeling uncomfortable. It’s not okay for any woman to ignore those women because they personally like you or don’t feel uncomfortable. If there is no consensus, TW should stay out until the consensus is that all women and girls are comfortable. Precisely because those spaces are meant for us to be comfortable and feel safe

-4. I don’t care if it’s degrading. It’s degrading to an entire sex, half of the population, to have us be told that we have no say in our spaces because some men really want to use them. It’s degrading to tell women that womanhood is an identity or can be earned through artificial hormones and surgery. So if you have to figure out how to pee without degrading women and the result is that you feel degraded- oh well. You could use the mens room. You choose not to.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. You will not be a woman. You cannot be a woman. You are not a woman. Like I said it’s getting to be too much so I skimmed a lot of your justifications for calling yourself one because honestly it’s too much

-2. I honestly appreciate that you wouldn’t join a woman’s club and that you went to a friends place instead of a woman’s shelter. Truly. I appreciate that you did that because others wouldn’t have. I still don’t think female bathrooms are for TW

-3. I don’t care about TW wanting to be stealth. So I don’t care about it causing issues at work for you. I just don’t. Sorry.

-4. It’s insane to me to tell one person it’s okay to make everyone else feel uncomfortable. Even children. That boy should be nowhere near female spaces and a girl shouldn’t be in boy spaces. It’s hypocritical to say no one’s feelings matter more than anyone else’s and then say that boy should use female spaces because of his genderfeelz

-5. I never misgendered you. Man is not a gender. I properly sexed you.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. Perfectly stated.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But forming your concept of womanhood on harassment, appearance and feelings, in other words, defining womanhood only by what you can try to wedge yourself into isn’t misogynistic or narcissistic?

They linked those crimes because they were relevant to the discussion. She didn’t say all TW were criminals and racists don’t even say all poc are criminals so wtf?

I don’t base womanhood on any type of feeling and no matter how many times you accuse us of doing this it won’t be true. Feelings have nothing to do with sex. At all. And women don’t occupy one singular place position or situation in the world.

Invading other peoples safe spaces is you doing something wrong. You being there is scary regardless of your behavior.

Your identity really has nothing to do with women. And pretending a man can be a woman takes away the entire meaning of woman. It renders the word useless because it would describe basically whoever the fuck wants it to describe them. By claiming to be a woman you nullify the word. Your actual lived reality is that of a trans person who happens to be male.

Pee outside, ask for someone to go in the mens room with you, go home and pee, carry some device to pee in your car if you have to, I truly don’t give a fuck anymore just stay away from women. It’s not our job to find out where you can pee. We just don’t want you to pee in spaces designated for females.

You should be classed with men because you’re not a woman and can’t make yourself one regardless of how you feel about it. The world shouldn’t have to bend for you.

Edited a typo

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You know what? It’s been explained so many times by multiple women and you just can’t listen because it’s not what you want to hear. It takes being a female. You’re not a female. It’s super fucking simple. Women who don’t or can’t menstruate can’t for a reason and all women understand the fear of a missed period or concern of not having ever gotten a period because we are supposed to menstruate. It means something is going on with our bodies. Something usually tied directly to being female. You don’t get your period because you’re a man. That’s not a thing women can relate to. No woman doesn’t get a period because she’s a man. You will never know what it is to be a female and fortunately for you you will never know how fucking insulting all of your comments are to women. Stop trying to force yourself into womanhood. you can’t, and it makes you seem grossly misogynistic and shows how little you truly understand anything about women. Stop. Please. Goddamn. I’d never try to speak on what it means to be trans because it’s not something I understand. But somehow a TW can know what it means to be a woman? It’s ridiculous.

Again, men get harassed. By other men.or women. They get talked over. By other men. Or women. Women aren’t women because we get harassed or talked over by men. Are the women who talk over other women or even harass other women now men? You make no sense and you sound desperate as fuck. Nobody is a woman or a man based on whether they get harassed or do the harassing.

Trans people can stay I don’t give a fuck just leave everyone else and female spaces alone. Use whatever false language you want to and express whatever misogynistic views you obviously believe- just leave everyone else and female spaces the fuck alone because if other TW think like you I don’t want them anywhere near me ever.

There is nothing you can do or say to not make you an obvious man with an obviously male mentality, no there isnt. When you can change your cells and gametes and chromosomes and organs and skeleton and brain to have none of those things indicate you’re male then sure you’ll be a woman. Nothing less will work. You will be a man LARPing as a woman until then. That’s just how it be.

Even if you do pass the things you say probably give you away if you talk irl the way you type here.

I don’t need you to prove male violence is bad it just has nothing to do with being a woman. And it’s not your views on male violence that show your obvious male way of thinking. The male violence stuff just seems like you grasping at straws.

You don’t have a framework. You base your womanhood on your narcissism and dysphoria. I base your lack of womanhood on biology and reality.

If there’s nowhere else you should still leave female spaces the fuck alone because you’re actually kind of creepy despite saying that you’re safe for us to be forced to share spaces with. Seriously I can’t imagine invading a space where I know I’m not wanted and that I know makes others uncomfortable. Especially a space not meant for me in the first place. Let alone doing it routinely. Jesus. I can’t imagine telling a group of people who have nothing in common with me thst just because I want it so badly, I’m a part of that group. So fucking invasive and disrespectful.

Of course you’d tell a little boy that his feelings matter more than little girls. Male solidarity and what not lol

You can’t say in one sentence that no one’s feelings matter more than another’s after saying you’d tell that boy that he should disregard all the girls at his school lol. Hypocrite much?

I am knowledgeable lmao. And lia is a manly man who looks and is built like the man he is so he shouldn’t have been allowed if women have equality.

I honestly have to end this particular thread because you’re too much here. I can only deal with so much misogyny from a male claiming to be a woman before I get rude and frustrated so I’m backing off. It’s truly equal parts hilarious and terrifying that someone who thinks like this thinks they’re a woman.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why?

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We don’t hate you just because we don’t see things the way you want us to. We don’t even hate you just because we don’t see you the way you want us to. If we hated you, we’d not be engaging with you.

I could easily argue you hate women, since it’s so easy for you to disregard our rights and spaces and reduce womanhood to appearance and feelings, or even that you hate anyone who doesn’t think like you, since you compared us to racists for simply understanding biology and reality and refusing to pretend we don’t.

You can’t decide for others what they should or shouldn’t be afraid of. The fact that you can enter female specific spaces as a male in and of itself is scary. Doesn’t matter if you personally aren’t a threat, the system in place that removed my safe spaces to make you feel safe and validated is scary.

You may not benefit from male violence- you absolutely benefit from male privilege. And male violence is not restricted to being committed against females or males who look or want to look female.

You don’t harass people, you just nullify some peoples rights and spaces and turn their lived reality into an identity. But, thanks for not adding harassment to that list.

You or any other male claiming to identify as or actually be a woman (note claim-they don’t even have to mean it) can use those spaces regardless of hormones and voice training now. You chose to wait, others don’t. It’s not just about you, none of this is just about you, it’s about TW in general. So unless you’re saying don’t let other TW access our spaces, just derrple because you say you’re safe and have taken certain steps, none of the things you did before you gave yourself permission to invade female spaces matters.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I understand feeling a sense of becoming or belonging- but claiming you can become a woman or belong with women is misogynistic in itself. A male person can’t become a woman. And it’s wrong for a male to claim they belong with women just because that is what they want or even because that’s where the feel most comfortable. You can’t ever really understand what it is to be a woman. Even if you appear female and people treat you as one (whatever that actually means), you’re still experiencing it in a male body and from a male’s perspective. It’s not the same. Women aren’t gradually treated as women- we are always treated as female humans, and that influences our perspectives in ways that your perspective can’t ever be influenced. There is nothing tying women to transwomen other than their insistence on being tied to us. It is forced on us. Which is the point I made in my first comment.

Men get harassed. This is a thing that happens. What specific thing can TW experience that only women experience? Even if someone discriminates against you because they think you’re a woman, you have the option to clarify. You choose not to. You can literally opt out of being treated like a woman if you admit you aren’t one. I get why you won’t, but you have that option. Women don’t.

As I’ve said so many times- you saying it applies to you doesn’t make that true. It doesn’t. It can’t. It never will. And you can’t even prove how it does. You just state it and I’m supposed to accept it and that’s honestly an incredibly stereotypically male way of thinking.

Hope all you want- the influx of people siding with you has already passed. That’s proven by the statistic I referenced and others that show a decline annually.

If you pass nobody would accuse you of anything because nobody would know you were in the wrong space. So if you personally pass and intend to pretend you’re a woman you’ve nothing to worry about in bathrooms or other female spaces. Unless you don’t actually pass as well as you think you do. Regardless of how it effects you, regardless of whether or not you pass, women and girls deserve their own spaces.

It wouldn’t matter who speaks out against TW if the majority is on your side. Clearly they aren’t, if people who aren’t gc or “alt right” agree with what we are saying about trans people. Alt righters are anti abortion, most women I know, even most men I know, are pro choice yet against the spaces and sports and language issues concerning trans people. People can and do think for themselves. A large part of people changing their views on trans people is the inability of trans people to prove the things they claim. That’s what made be become gc. Literally trans people. Not gc. Not alt right. Transwomen and transmen and so called enbies themselves made me gender critical.

Im asking you to respect women and leave us and our spaces alone. Pee where ever else you have to to do that.

Tell the little boy I referenced that safety and comfort are subjective, then! He’s not gonna fit in when half the school resents him and he’s made them all feel uncomfortable lol. Him wanting to be a girl isn’t going to make girls see him as one any more than him wanting to be a woman when he grows up will make anyone see him as one. It’s ridiculous and the best example of male privilege I can think of that his feelings matter more than how those girls feel. Why should his feelings outweigh the feelings of multiple girls in his school? Even of the parents of children at the school? Why exactly do the feelings of trans people always matter more than everyone else’s feelings?

Lia is a man who shouldn’t have even been there. The rule is fucked up and it only exists to placate men. That’s again- my whole point. We are forced to live with rules that undermine our equal rights for the sake of men. You pointing out that it’s a rule is just you making my point. Males can dictate what rules women have to abide by, and even when we are vocal about disagreeing and it being unfair, we get told it’s the way it is. By men. Who made it the way it is. It’s how it’s always been for women, the only difference now is that it’s being done by and for men claiming to be women instead of just men dictating to women in general.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A huge part of the misogyny we face is men claiming womanhood for themselves. That’s not an issue TW have to deal with. It’s an issue TW cause.

To be frank, even males who aren’t TW can experience some degree of the effects of misogyny. Being effeminate, being short, being gay… they get ridiculed and mocked or even harmed for those things (not necessarily the height thing, but an average sized man may well think he can pick on or harm a smaller man). So TW experiencing some aspects of misogyny doesn’t mean they have that in common solely with women.

Actually- the women’s room is for women. See that apostrophe? It indicates ownership. A female sign on a space indicates that’s who the space is meant for. A word having a clear meaning (as all words do) indicates it means what that meaning is. So no, I don’t own the word woman, but it applies to me and not to you, so you have less of claim on it than I do.

Im not an athlete either. It matters to me because I’m a woman.

Not enough people are using it how you want them to to claim the language evolved. Just because some will go along doesn’t mean the language evolved. It means one people are being kind to you. And as I said, more and more people want you to use the space designated to you based on your sex. This is not an indication that language is evolving at all.

Jesus I didn’t know you meant online, specifically. So you’re not even basing this on people in the real world in real time. You’re basing it on sites you frequent that are full of people who a) think like you or b) know they have to use certain language and not say certain things to be allowed in that space.

So… even though there’s only dozens of people online who are gc we are responsible for all of these people changing their minds? Even though according to you there are infinitely more people who agree with you? Sure. That tracks.

Literally I didn’t say you shouldn’t be trans or that you being trans offends me. I didn’t ask you to stop being trans lol

It’s not my framework. It’s biology. You haven’t disproven biology lol

You live your life as a trans person. That would mean that your sex is quite possibly the biggest factor in how you live your life…

So fuck the feelings of all those girls for the sake of one boy? He may feel the same feelings he’s forcing those girls to feel if he has to use the boys spaces but he’s a fucking boy so it’s not the same issue. Since he’s a child, he hasn’t transitioned so I doubt the other boys would be uncomfortable. No they aren’t telling little girls they can’t use the girls room. They’re telling little girls they don’t deserve to have their own spaces were they feel safe using the bathroom all because one male wants access to spaces meant for girls. They’re telling girls that male feelings matter more than the sense of safety and comfort for all of the girls at the school.

Many supporting him doesn’t detract from the people who have to actually compete with him thinking it’s unfair. Many don’t support him. He literally got booed. Almost all of the audience literally refused to applaud his win and applauded the female who came in second place because they knew she was the true winner in a competition meant to be amongst women.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s not what they say the definition is. It’s what the definition is. It’s what the fucking word means. Period. And socially they do figure it out based on that word. Again- you have to conceal/withhold information for people who know you to think you’re a woman. You have to drastically alter your body to be seen as a woman alter it by making it look as female as you possibly can. This just reinforces what I’m saying. Someone mistaking you for a woman and you not being honest doesn’t make you a woman. It only makes you a man who looks like a woman. And only then, if someone doesn’t know the obvious tells that TW can’t alter. If someone knows to look at certain parts of your body because they really really need to defect TW for some reason, they’d know. And if they told anyone and it got around- you’d no longer be seen as a woman. This is perhaps a ridiculous hypothetical- but it could happen because it’s not a hypothetical that’s not based on things we can’t perceive or that could reasonably happen.

SRS is not going to make you indistinguishable lmao. Neovaginas don’t look or function like vaginas. The “vaginal canal” isn’t even in the same place. Even if everything else is perfect, that alone gives you away unless someone doesn’t know what a vagina looks like.

Others seeing you as a woman because they don’t know you aren’t one doesn’t make you one. There’s a reason you don’t tell them you’re trans. That’s proving my point. You know if they knew, they’d see you differently. If you thought you were a woman, you would have no problem admitting to being trans because that wouldn’t make you not a woman. The fact that you withhold that info proves you know what I’m saying is true. So just because you assume others don’t know (as I said on the deleted post, it’s possible they do but just haven’t said anything) doesn’t change what I’m saying. It means you can pass. The concept of passing relies on people not knowing you’re passing but knowing what a woman is. Without the understanding that woman= adult female human, it wouldn’t matter if you pass or don’t.

You simply can’t live as something you aren’t. You can live as someone pretending to be something you aren’t. Many people do, trans or not.

I think you’re transitioning because you have dysphoria. A mental illness that literally reinforces the fact that you are not a woman.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We weren’t talking about how things should be- you said this is how it is. Don’t backtrack unless you’re going to delete the comment so you can pretend that’s not what you said.

Women should not be forced to share language, spaces, sports, etc with you because you transitioned. Period. No one is forcing you to transition, not transition, or detransition. Your transition has an effect on us. We have to deal with You corrupting our spaces and language regardless of how we feel. What do you not get? Your transition forces women and girls to have no choice or say in our own spaces.

Passing TW are not forced to deal with it, they are the very thing women have to deal with (along with the ones who don’t pass).

What are you doing that’s so terrible?

Calling yourself a woman when you literally can’t ever be one

Using our spaces when they were literally designed to keep you (males) out

And other things that you specifically may not be doing (as you said I know little about you) but that a lot do other TW are doing.

Your presence shouldn’t have to be something women have to deal with at all, no matter how small you make your presence.

So… it’s not okay to possibly maybe make other men or yourself uncomfortable but it is acceptable to make women uncomfortable for the 30 seconds you’re in our spaces. Got it.

The OP of this post shared a link a while back that actually indicates that the number of people who want trans people to use the bathrooms meant for their sex is actually increasing every year.

Language does evolve- but the language we have actually does accurately define and describe tw, just not the way they want to. Language doesn’t evolve to accommodate the personal sense of self of 1% of the human population

You don’t listen to those women because your wants and needs matter more than those of women. Glad you made that clear.

There are things about myself I wouldn’t stop if someone told me they didn’t like it. None of those things involve trying to redefine words because I want them to apply to me or invading other people’s safe spaces. If they did involve those things, I would stop.

We are correct- TW aren’t women and female spaces are for women and girls. You just can’t accept we are correct because you don’t want us to be correct. As I said, if you can’t prove it and we can, you’re wrong. Until you can prove it, you can’t really claim that what I just said isn’t true, all you can say is that it’s not true to you. You are one of billions. If billions of people- literally all people, even you- just existing proves what gc is saying, it’s pretty self serving to pretend that what I said is wrong.

I agree that being trans is a state of being. So is being a woman. The problem is that your state of being impacts my life and my rights and my equality. My being a woman doesn’t have that effect on you. It’s not my fault that you’re not a woman. It’s not anyones fault.

It’s not just gc. I know plenty of people who don’t even know the term gc and feel the same way that I do. There are little girls in schools who feel unsafe in their bathrooms and locker rooms just because one boy- one- claims to be a girl and solely based on that claim has been given access to female spaces in school. Hundreds of girls who can’t vote and don’t know the term gc being held hostage to the whims and feelings of one boy. Same with sports. Many of Lia Thomas’ teammates have protested and spoken out, but one male’s sense fo self matters more than almost his entire team not wanting him to compete with or against them. That’s bullshit. That’s what I mean by forced. And none of his teammates have called themselves gender critical.

Edit- fixed typo

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People absolutely use the definition wtf are you even talking about?

The only reason anyone would actually see you as a woman (as you claim) is because they’d see you look female, if you didn’t/don’t look female, they’d immediately know you were trans. That’s because they understand that a woman is female. This of course wouldn’t mean you are a woman because you look female, it would simply mean they may mistake you for a female adult human, aka a woman. If they knew you weren’t female, they’d not see you as a woman regardless of your appearance unless they are a part of the minority of people who think TWAW no matter how they look

Presentation isn’t enough because it’s not fact and doesn’t erase fact. You have to withhold information to be seen as a woman. Women don’t have to do that.

What the word means for you doesn’t really matter, the word has a meaning and had a meaning before you and will have a meaning long after you are gone. You are using the word incorrectly. And it’s offensive and causes harm to the very people the word truly defines.

Distress over your body because…. It looks/looked male.

Not having to explain… what, exactly?

Again, if you can’t prove that biology isn’t relevant, it is relevant. You are something, you are many somethings, merely because of your biology. One of those things is male, and adult male humans are men. It’s super simple. You just don’t want it to be for purely selfish reasons.

I don’t feel like or identify as a woman. I am factually biologically literally a woman because the word has a meaning and I fit that meaning. You don’t. Protest all you want, doesn’t change the truth.

It’s not based on me feeling shit. It’s based on me understanding biology and how humans and sex works.

I don’t express myself as a woman, I express myself as Sloane and Sloane just happens to be an adult female human. Womanhood is not a fucking identity, expression, or presentation.

I, and many many others, do need more from you and other TW than just your assertion, precisely because you obviously have no way to back up and prove your assertion.

My womanhood and yours are not the same because even if we both feel and identify as women, only one of us can prove it to be true. The other (you, if that’s unclear) cannot prove it and instead relies on personal feelings. Being a woman has nothing whatsoever to do with personal feelings.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So then prove that womanhood is not based on immutable biological fact.

Things aren’t true and factual just because you believe them to be so any more than things aren’t true and factual just because you personally don’t see them as such.

It’s not my definition- it’s the definition. How you see yourself has absolutely nothing to do with what words mean.

It’s so self serving to act as if a word that describes and defines literally billions of people doesn’t mean what it means because it doesn’t fit your sense of self.

You’re not amab, you’re a male. Still. Currently. You’re a male person. It doesn’t matter how you live your life, you’re living a male life because you are a male.

People do “measure” sex. Is that not a large part of why you’ve attempted to alter your body to not resemble your actual sex and instead to resemble mine? Like- what are you basing transition on if nobody “measures” sex?

Eta- i asked you to prove, without basing it on your feelings. All you proved is that you cannot do that. And you still don’t get why women feel held hostage by TW. That’s truly fucking terrifying to me, as a woman.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“It’s not forced it’s just how things are???”

It’s “just how things are” even though a large portion of women and girls don’t want that to be just how things are. Yet we are forced to deal with it. Do you get what I’m saying? By nature of it being “just how things are” it’s forced.

“I’m so sorry if any of our conversations I’ve made you feel intimidated or scared”

But not sorry if in real life your actions have made us feel intimidated or scared? Do you understand how scary that, in and of itself, is? That you would apologize if you said something but not when you actively do something?

Do you understand that effectively, you’re telling us that you don’t care that your presence in our spaces and corruption of the language we need to describe the reality of our lives is terrifying to many of us, but you’ll apologize if the way you word things is scary?

“Really I am, I am truly trying to live my life as a woman without hurting anyone…”

So then why do you not listen to the women who tell you that you are actually hurting us just by truly trying to do that? Instead you just tell us that some women don’t feel that way. You said you didn’t want to hurt anyone… the women who feel harmed by TW are a part of anyone. Why is it okay to disregard them?

Im not trying to attack you, and I know I’m not a part of this conversation, I just don’t understand this and so I had to ask.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We would absolutely be discriminating against an actual “other kind of” woman if we banned her from female spaces.

So the obvious solution is to actually prove factually that you are an “other kind of woman”.

Not based on your feelings or the notion that some people may think you’re a female by your appearance, not based on a concept as nebulous as gender identity (also can you even prove that woman is a gender at all?), not based on having dysphoria (which doesn’t mean you’re the opposite sex/gender, but only that you feel a disconnect with your own sex/gender), can you actually offer proof that TW are an “other kind” of women? Or even any type of woman at all? Can you link it here? Can you show that it’s an actual fact and not a deep desire for you?

If you can’t do that, none of your arguments hold any water and invading our spaces is inexcusable.

Until you do that, can you explain why it’s acceptable to tell any type of person who can prove they are a woman why we should have no say in whether or not it is acceptable to exclude any type of man/male from female specific spaces?

(And yes I can prove that TW are a type of man)

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Im seeing more radfems/liberals/“idk what to call them at this point”s change their stance on trans issues. I agree it’s got a lot to do with the stuff dealing with kids, sports and prisons.

Once teachers with blue hair started tiktoking it went downhill for tras. And I saw the footage of Lia Thomas being booed and another of the audience pretty much waiting to cheer until the second place winner.

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Im not sure why I can’t find the option to dm, sorry. I really think you’d be interested in it and I so wish I could help.

On a completely unrelated note, I once heard a rumor about this thing called p u t l o c k e r. Supposedly, if you search those letters and a title, you can stream just about anything for free if you don’t mind pop ups at first and having to click play a few times to get it to actually play.

Of course, I’d never use such a site.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Before I moved this happened a few times. I felt uncomfortable each time. I usually left and came back once he got out of the bathroom. But one time I came out of a stall and a TW had entered while I was in the stall and of course I washed my hands before I left but it was awkward.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“Some trans women do pass, like Jazz Jennings, Laverne Cox and MJ Rodriquez.”

Have you never seen any of these people? None of them pass at all.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

You are so consistently the best

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Take care of yourself

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How would a full body transplant even happen? You just switch bodies with a transman? Idk how it would actually happen

You wouldn’t know they think of you thst way because they wouldn’t tell you. I moved recently but when I lived in LA I saw obviously trans people all the time and never said a word or gave indication I noticed. You’d be fine. Nobody cares but you.

Your dysphoria has clearly not been treated. One aspect of it has been alleviated and obviously not enough for you. A cure means you don’t have it anymore. Trans people obviously still struggle with it post transition, even if it’s more manageable. There’s no other way right now because tras call any attempt to find other ways conversion therapy. Other ways could be developed. We don’t do lobotomies anymore, they found ways to actually treat the things they were giving lobotomies for.

One is “now in” a body. The other is in the same body they’ve always been in. The situations aren’t comparable.

It’s literally a mental disorder. I’m astonished you would dispute that after acknowledging your mental health issues before.

If you’re willing to lie to every single person in your life and you think that’s acceptable then you’re just confirming my point. Narcissism.

I don’t own the word woman. The word woman has a clear neutral meaning and it applies to me and not to males. That’s my point. Every single word you typed has a meaning. According to you if it suits me I can just change the meaning of select words you’ve used and make them mean that you agree with everything I said? And you can’t get upset because you don’t own those words? Great. So you agree transition should be a last resort and spaces for females should remain male free. Awesome. Glad we reached a consensus.

I wasn’t talking about you’re body- I was talking about your mind. Your body is male so it’s ridiculous to claim the identity of the body opposite your own. You have no internal frame of reference for it. And gender identity doesn’t magically give you one. You cannot ever know womanhood.

Good luck changing biology lol

How do you change a fact?

Yet again, things are how they are whether you accept that or not.

You wouldn’t have choice to consent, the process would be exhausting those other forms of treatment before a therapist approves of transition. You can resist the treatments- you’d still have to wait so why not try to be mentally healthy first?

The issue is with the connection between brain and body, I agree. Your body is doing what it’s supposed to, your brain is what’s rejecting your body. It’s still a mental health issue. You can wax poetic about it all you want- it’s undeniable mental.

You don’t know what the alternative is to know you’d hate it. You’re making a huge assumption based on nothing concrete because this whole topic of alternative treatments is hypothetical.

No one but you can live in your body. That’s fact. So as I said before, you’d always be you because that’s all you (or any of us) can ever be.

Please list the mental disorders/illness we treat by indulgence and how we indulge them.

The issue with trans people is it’s not just your life. Everyone else has to participate in your treatment and that’s dangerous for your mental health and an unfair burden on others, including complete strangers. If someone wants to remove a limb it only affects them and society would in fact recognize them as what they wanted to be because they actually can become what they wanted to be. That’s not the case for trans people.

It’s not as simple as you think to avoid the situations where sex matters.

I used to bartend- I never, not once, checked the sex on an id. People check dob, names and pictures. I’m sure there are instances when they check sex. But those instances are when it’s relevant so a falsified legal document could actually be what makes you die. If you’re willing to die rather than have accurate identification- how the hell can you argue that’s not mental illness?

I don’t support transition at all, I’m just not pushing to stop because I don’t care what others do to themselves. I don’t think there’s much that can be done that’s not being done now. Male bodies are different from female bodies in structure in thousands of ways. Even when they get to the kids it doesn’t always make passing a guarantee. You can only fuck with nature so much.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay…

You’re gonna be waiting forever. They’d have to pretty much rearrange you’re entire skeleton to not have any give always that you’re male. Until they can do a full body/brain transplant you’re going to be male.

Even if you don’t pass, you could go outside because most people aren’t think in about you or worried about you. We truly don’t care. Granted some people may- but that’s true for females and poc and lgb etc, most people don’t care when they see us… some do.

No part of your body is meant to have the hormone levels you have. You want them and think you need them because of dysphoria. Dysphoria doesn’t change what your body needs and how it’s supposed to function. If your dysphoria were being treated more effectively you’d understand this.

The only way you’d understand womanhood/being a female is by being a female. There’s nothing you can do.

Waking up in a different body is not the same as waking up in the body you’ve always had and wishing you woke up with a different body

You can say you know it in your core- you don’t. You have never existed in a female body to know what that is like. Even today any experience you may have is that of a male who (as you say) is perceived as female. It’s still a male perspective.

Again- that’s narcissism. Getting to do what you want to your body and with your life and leaving everyone else out of it is not enough. The whole world has to bend for you? And you think that’s reasonable?

You want to be stealth, meaning mislead and lie to people for the rest of your life? So… you want to be dishonest with every relationship or friendship you have and yet I assume would want those people to love you for you and be able to trust you as you actively continue to withhold information that could matter deeply to them so you can have the life you want? And that’s morally sound to you? And it wouldn’t bother you that you’d never know if they’d accept you for all of you?

I know we are different people. We are also different sexes. And the term you are using, the term you’re tying to claim is some sort of identity, is the only word in the world that is meant solely to distinguish between me and you and acknowledge the differences between us. You seek to erase that by altering the word to suit you. I get you feel how you do about your body- but why take from women in order to alleviate your distress? Even if it’s just the language meant to describe and define women, why take that from them?

It’s not me who offers no recourse for your pain, it’s life. It’s biology. It’s fact. It’s your own body. Once again, Idgaf if you accept reality or not. Reality exists regardless of your acceptance. What I want is to not have my spaces or rights or language corrupted for your benefit.

If there were alternative treatments you very well could still be alive without transition. We won’t ever know. But my point was just that bodies are not unhealthy just because the mind rejects them. It wasn’t about your feelings, I was responding to discussing whether or not your body was objectively healthy or not pre transition and it was.

Calling someone mentally ill is meant to try to explain that the issue is with the brain not the body. It was stated because this whole time I’ve been saying that you can’t fix the mental by altering the physical. Even now with you having transitioned you’re talking about putting your brain in a computer, hiding because a fucking stranger may notice that youre male, wanting to kill yourself rather than live i. Your body as it would naturally look- that’s mental illness. Stating it doesn’t take the mental illness away, but it still needs to be acknowledged that this is severe mental illness on display.

The people who try to “cure” you may actually be able to. Maybe not you specifically, but many dysphoric people. Which is why in my first comment I said if a therapist/psychologist has attempted other forms of treatment and the patient is no better then I would understand then recommending transition as a last resort. Something tells me you’d be one of those patients anyway.

And many patients have to have their autonomy “removed” because they aren’t of sound mind. I’m not saying you’re one of those people, to be clear, but you act as if it’s never okay for doctors or whomever to intervene and make choices for their patients but it happens all the time when necessary. If you were suicidal you’d be put on watch and possibly medicated and hospitalized- you don’t want that, you want to die. Is the doctor wrong for keeping you alive against your will?

Trying other forms of treatment before resorting to the most drastic treatment possible is reasonable. It just doesn’t automatically give any dysphoric person what they want and that is what seems to be the problem. If you’re willing to literally surgically alter every part of your skeleton to appear female, what is the issue in waiting until you’ve exhausted all other alternatives to do something that extreme?

I know it’s a mental illness because it’s not normal for a brain to reject one’s sexed body lol

Trans people’s (or rather dysphoric people’s) brains are wired differently. As are bipolar people and schizophrenic people and pretty much any one else with a mental disorder/illness. You not what’s not wired differently? Their bodies. They still have a sex just like the bipolar person or schizophrenic person. So why should we treat this one disorder by indulging their symptoms when we wouldn’t do that for anyone else?

You’re always going to be seen as your sex by society. Maybe some will pretend that’s not the case, but there will always be a need or reason for distinguishing between the sex you wish you were and the sex you are. So even if we all pretended we thought TW were women, there’d still be people putting qualifiers and limits on that. And there’d still be discussions about whether this type of woman should be eligible for this scholarship or grant, if this type of woman should job that was designated for a woman, this sport meant to provide equality for females, or even just wanting to date or be friends with you. Sex matters and becomes relevant in the day to day for a multitude of reasons. Most people aren’t willing to pretend it doesn’t so a small portion of the population can feel validated in their sense of self. And they shouldn’t have to.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had no idea Kim Petras is trans. I saw a pic of him online and immediately knew so I google and confirmed. Don’t know any of his music or anything else about him- he is an obvious male and that’s the only reason I know who he is and his appearance is how I found out he was male. Jennings has a clearly masculine face. There have always been rumors about Nikki well before confirmation. We can (usually) tell.

Until they develop surgery to change your hands, neck, shoulders, thighs, knees etc there will always be obvious tells. Sorry.

They were shocked because they thought they passed. Pretty much everyone around them knew. That’s all my point was, that you can think you pass because others don’t let on that you don’t. We can go back and forth about more, but it is what it is.

I mean… if you want to hide, then hide. As I said I don’t care what trans people choose to do. The point is still that you can’t know for sure if nobody knows because most of us don’t care to say anything about it because we don’t gaf. But I’m not talking about just you- I’m talking in general.

As I said, every trans person I know suffers from side effects directly related to the hormones they take. Long term hormones is bound to have repercussions when your body was never meant to have them. I’m glad you’re healthy though

I care about people’s identity when it’s rooted in reality and truth. I don’t care about it when it’s rooted in something they’d never be able to understand.

You can say you just knew you were a woman- that’s the problem. You can’t know something you don’t inhabit. You can cling to the concept because it’s the only alternative, doesn’t mean you know shit about it.

You don’t know you’re a woman. You think you’re one.

People are quick to call trans people narcissistic because many of them are. You don’t see it because it’s possible you are. As I said in a previous comment, people struggling with the issue don’t always see what others see. You don’t get why trans people are seen as narcissists- a lot of others do. The whole fucking lgbt community is pretty much focused on the t now. You demand language and definition changes that would happen solely for your benefit, that women have no say in their spaces and sports because you want access to them, and demand that others pretend that what you want to be seen as is what you are when you’re actually the opposite (not you you- trans community in general you). That’s all pretty narcissistic. It’s not enough for you to have surgery or hormones etc, the whole world has to go along with it.

The identity you’re claiming belongs to another group of people. How can you claim it for yourself if you weren’t a part of that group when you claimed it (and I’d say still aren’t)? That’s a response to the next paragraph but is also narcissistic af

How can you tell me that you are what I am? Seriously how can a male person tell a female person “I’m a woman” and expect to be taken seriously? I’ll never get this.

You feel like an evil monster. In reality you’re just a human who happens to be male. How you feel doesn’t change facts.

Saying a male is a boy or man and a female is girl or woman is not limiting to them to anything but reality. It’s not saying that can’t do whatever they want with their lives, it’s saying that they have a sex. Man and woman, girl and boy- sexed terms. That’s all they are, terms to describe one of the two types of humans.

If i knew you I’d be concerned if you told me you feel trapped as a male. Unfortunately you’d still be a male. It’s just a fact. It’s not anyone fault that that’s the situation. It’s a shitty situation I’m sure, but again- it’s reality.

Your body was healthy though, objectively. At least I presume. Again this is a fact. Unless they have an actual issue or deformity etc, trans people start out with healthy bodies. The issue is mental. I don’t need to have dysphoria to understand what a healthy body is.

It wasn’t supposed to make you happy. It wasn’t supposed to make you anything. Its just your body. And it was, I presume, normally developed until your interfered because of your mental health issue. You only don’t have high testosterone and functional sex organs because you intentionally altered your body. So it doesn’t really mean anything that most men wouldn’t want to live in your body. Your body would have been like most men’s if you hadn’t transitioned. I get you don’t want that- all I was saying that having a healthy body you alter as much as possible in order to appear to be the opposite sex is not indicative of a mentally healthy person. The fact that instead of addressing that you gave the response you gave also points to issues with your mental health. Which is what I’ve been saying this whole time.

What you described is actually not mental illness. Being a male with a typical level of testosterone and functioning genitals because you didn’t take cross sex hormones over an extensive period of time in order to look like the opposite sex and not being disgusted by your male body for no reason other than it being a male body is usually viewed as mentally sound.

Eta- to be clear, I’m not passing judgment on people with mental health issues. I’ve had them before (obviously not dysphoria) and I’ve witnessed people k love deal with them. I don’t use the words to try to be mean or negative, it’s just the only phrasing that feels accurate. Mental health is important and I’m not in any way trying to dismiss, belittle or throw it in anyone’s face. I hope that’s clear to anyone who bothers to read my comments

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah. I knew of him but not about him. I think I actually referenced him here before alongside Ben Shapiro and Blaire White because of the childrens book he wrote

I streamed it for free from a link a friend sent me lol

Idk. I’m conflicted because as I said, the doc really highlights things I think should be addressed, but I don’t want to put money in his pocket at all by suggesting it to others.

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oof

I think the doc is worth watching and points out a lot of things worth discussing but that’s pretty gross.

For the record- I absolutely streamed it for free and gave no money to him.

“What is a Woman” by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I enjoyed it. It’s not perfect but I think it makes it’s point very well.

I don’t really know anything about him to be honest. I know he’s associated with Ben Shapiro. I just used his name so people would know what I was referring to.

What’s wrong with him? Lol

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im fairly sure some people know or suspect but okay. I’ve acknowledged in the past that if no one knows no one is uncomfortable tho. What I’m saying is that when we do know we should not have to play along with anything we don’t believe in.

Child experimentation doesn’t guarantee passability. Kim Petra, Nikkitutorials, jazz jennings- NONE of them pass for female

As far as anecdotes go- I’ve had a trans person come out to me and my only response was that I already knew. They were shocked. It varies based on the person so if you pass good for you- thst doesn’t mean most trans people do or will.

It also doesn’t mean that passing makes you something you aren’t.

Invading my spaces and robbing me of privacy from males is what I mean by holding women hostage

I don’t care that you have a hormonal imbalance- but that’s not healthy long term and is an issue I have with transition. Every trans person I know is suffering from some level of negative side effects of the synthetic hormones they take. Maybe you’re fine now- you likely won’t be in ten years. The point remains: your hormone levels don’t make you not male or a woman.

As long as you’re resigned to it, good for you I guess

You may not accept that truth but you’ve acknowledged that you can’t make it untrue- you can only alter yourself as much as possible to make it less apparent. My point is still that biology prevails. Even if you successfully pass, you’re still 100% male because that’s how biology works. I’m not saying anything about your feelings, I’m referring to what the reality of the situation is regardless of your feelings.

People are learning more and more what to look for to identify trans people. Maybe that’s shitty but it’s true. There are whole YouTube channels dedicated to teaching people what to look out for. Again- maybe that’s shitty, but it’s true. You won’t be able to hide from everyone all the time. But I respect that you can acknowledge that you can’t change your sex at least. I’m not even saying I don’t understand the desire to be seen as female- I do- I just don’t think it matters to anyone but transwomen. Again, my point is simply that regardless of perception, fact exists and can’t be changed.

Dysphoria is a mental illness. Thinking you are a woman when you are born the sex that can’t be a woman is a word I can’t use here but a mental illness. Gender identity is undefinable bull shit that means nothing to anyone but the people who claim to have one. Being a male who decides that they understand what it means to be a woman, particularly thinking they understand it enough to claim it as a sense of identity is indicative of narcissism- which I believe is classified as a mental health issue. Being a male who thinks it’s okay to tell women what a woman is is misogyny- which may not exactly be a mental illness but is a red flag.

Homo/bisexual people aren’t asking anyone to play pretend for them so it not being the norm doesn’t really carry the same weight or cause the same problems as trans people demanding we pretend a male can be anything other than a boy or man and a female can be anything other than a girl or woman.

As I said, if you feel the need to cosmetically alter your body go for it- I just don’t think it means anything significant to anyone but you.

And for what it’s worth- thinking you’re perfectly normal healthy body needs to be “fixed” by taking hormones for the side effects and cosmetic surgery that have a high rate of complications is indicative of mental illness as well.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not interested in convincing you that it’s wrong. I know what’s true and what’s not. And it’s clear that whether they can say it or not, most other people do as well. I understand you have a condition, I’m not your therapist, it’s not on me to convince you to accept reality. What I’m saying is, regardless of what you can or can’t accept, no one else should have to adjust for you or pretend for you.

Not pretending you believe the same things as a coworker is not harassment. Trying to force someone to conform to your beliefs however…

Just because you altered your appearance doesn’t mean other people can’t tell you’re trans lmao. Sometimes you don’t get to “let” people know because we… have eyes and ears etc. A lot of trans people overestimate their ability to pass. A lot. And a lot of people who aren’t trans are being kind or just minding their business by not letting you know we know. Sorry if that bursts your bubble.

If you think breasts and fat redistribution conceals maleness- they don’t. They really don’t lol.

Didn’t say it’s a curse, didn’t say it marked you as a bad person- it’s a fact you’d still be trans regardless of what type of person you are

I don’t want my rights or spaces or language to be held hostage to your desire to keep your sex private. No. Absolutely not. Other than those types of issues (and the issue of consent when it comes to dating/sex) idgaf

Trans people don’t start out with a hormone imbalance. They induce one. That’s the difference. If someone’s testosterone levels are not what they naturally are supposed to be they may go on hrt. Trans people don’t go on hrt. They take cross sex hormones to mimic or match the levels in the opposite sex. It’s not the same thing at all and it’s ridiculous to pretend it is.

Sorry to tell you: you’ll die trying. Biology isn’t destiny. It’s reality.

You shouldn’t trust your mind because you have a mental illness that affects your mind and your perception of your body. That’s what I’ve been saying forever. It’s not a you should be male situation. Fact of the matter is- you are male. There is no point or value in that- it just is the truth.

You can’t ever change your body to make you not male, but as I said. I don’t care how you feel or see yourself- the world shouldn’t have to adjust for your feelings or pretend that you’re not a male. Other people shouldn’t have to participate in your sense of self and females shouldn’t lose their rights because of it.

Half the world isn’t against you- they just aren’t willing to pretend they don’t understand biology or reality for you.

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the percentage I most see (whether it’s accurate or not) is a 60/40 split. 60% is just not enough women for me to disregard the 40% who aren’t comfortable. That’s still a lot of uncomfortable women.

GC women hang in gc spaces, and there are plenty of GC women who keep their views to themselves in other spaces. Just because you haven’t interacted with or spotted one doesn’t mean they aren’t there if you’re talking about spaces that have nothing to do with gender/sexuality etc.

I know plenty of women who are gc offline but play along online because they enjoy spaces that happen to make people follow specific sub rules or whatever, for what it’s worth.

Im not asking you to get emotional here, I’m just saying that I don’t know if trans people can always see the lasting symptoms of their dysphoria as clearly as people without it (who know what it is) do. It’s not just you, there are several qt I’ve noticed this with. It’s like with other mental health issues, the person dealing with it doesn’t always see what others notice.

If i worked with a trans person I’d use the name they currently use. I just wouldn’t pretend they were the opposite sex. Is pressuring/demanding someone conform to your beliefs acceptable in the work place? I’m not saying that a trans person at my workplace couldn’t call themselves whatever they want and use whatever language suits them- I’m saying I shouldn’t have to participate.

Biology is factual and provable. Perception varies. Biology is significantly more important because it’s accurate and dependable.

When you are eventually biologically a woman, I will call you one.

However- you’d still be trans. And I’d still be uncomfortable about some things.

You act as if people can’t mistake something they see for something it isn’t. It happens all the time. You reach for sugar and end up with salt. You think the fuit in the bowl is real but it’s artificial. You think the person you’re looking at is white but they’re a poc. You think the person in front of you is a female but they’re actually a male.

I know what someone is without looking at them because I know what a man is and what a woman is. I could possibly be mistaken once in a blue moon. That doesn’t alter the reality of the situation.

Males aren’t supposed to have the hormone levels you have, at least they typically don’t. You’re intentionally giving yourself hormone levels your body isn’t supposed to have. I have to come back and find the right wording for this sorry. I’m tired but can’t sleep.

It’s not what I want you to be. It’s what you just factually, biologically, really are. It has nothing to do with me.

There was never anything wrong with your body. The issue is mental. It’s a mental health issue. That’s my whole point. Lots of people who get treatment for mental health issues change- it means you change, not that you aren’t yourself. You don’t know how you’d change so it’s easy to get dramatic and act like you’d be a whole different person. You’d be you, because that’s all you can ever be.

Wtf is personal injustice?

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just don’t think females should have to compromise for any males. At most I’ll compromise on pronouns. I’d personally compromise on other things but I don’t feel it’s right for me to compromise on things that other women and even girls don’t want to compromise on. Solidarity and all that.

“I'm not going to say people shouldn't try, just that I would never consider doing it myself, and it should never be forced on people.”

I still think transition should be a last resort. After other things are tried. People who transition have a mental illness- not physical. So all efforts to treat the mental should be exhausted before drastically altering a mentally ill person’s body with synthetic hormones and or surgery.

“Like, I'm also skeptical of its actual efficacy, because many detrans people I've met seem to still be quite dysphoric, despite”

Many mental conditions/illnesses are lifelong- it seems dysphoria is one of those whether you transition or not.

and if a trans person is so worried about validation, gets triggered by certain language/pronouns etc- id argue they do still struggle with dysphoria, even if it’s alleviated. You once told me you plan to be cremated rather than have someone be able to identify your corpse as male… that doesn’t sound like someone who has overcome dysphoria. You’ve made other comments that indicate you still struggle but I don’t have time to list them.

“I mean there's still a conflict here...like if you worked with a trans person and continually misgendered them then they're not going to want to work with you.”

Okay… sounds like a personal problem to me.

“Or like, I'm not going to use the men's room when cis women friends have literally told me I was being silly and dragged me into the women's room.”

And this is why I said I don’t care what you to do your body, I care that you’re undermining my rights and in my spaces. Transition doesn’t make anyone change sex. I can not care what you do with your body and advocate for my spaces to remain for females only at the same time. There’s a conflict for you- not for women.

“My "business" includes existing as a trans woman and it seems clear that you don't want me to be seen as a woman? Idk.”

I don’t care how you’re seen. you’re not a woman. Just literally TW aren’t women. It can’t be proven that they are and can be proven that they are not. If someone else chooses to play along that’s their choice- I should not be forced to or have no say in female spaces or sports etc.

What you’re seen as and what you are are not always the same thing.

“My main problem with it is that it seems, idk, paternalistic. Like "oh I feel so bad for these people, I wish they had some other option". When "these people" are literally telling you that we don't necessarily want another option and want to make our own decisions.”

As I’ve said before- this is a mental health issue. If what you wanted was to take a specific medication or not take medication at all for your illness, if the decision is in vs out patient treatment, if the decision is which therapist you want to work with- under most circumstances I’d agree what you want should be adhered to. But when the decision is intentional hormonal imbalance you intend to maintain for the rest of your life and life changing drastic surgery all for the sake of making you appear to be something you aren’t because you can’t accept that you aren’t - idk if I think someone so desperate for those things that they are suicidal/unable to function is in the best position to make those choices. So if after time and effort is spent on treating dysphoria in other ways and the patient is still unable to cope with the reality of their sex and body- id understand a professional suggesting transition. You’re looking at it from a trans perspective, I’m looking at it from a mental health perspective over all. Dysphoria should be treated like any other mental health issue.

As far as the hrt stuff- I have my own personal opinions on transition, but regardless of those views, I’m not saying that I think transition shouldn’t be done at all, or that doctors should not help and guide patients through it (it should ONLY be done that way imo, if it’s going to be done).

Calls for trans elimination by [deleted] in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just randomly checked in to see if this sub had anything going on

I don’t gaf if an adult decides to take hormones and or cosmetically alter their body, but I don’t think there’s “room for compromise” or singalongs. At all. Well… Maybe singalongs with specific people, sure. But hard pass on compromising.

I think that while being trans is not itself a mental illness, it is very clearly linked to severe mental illness. I can’t think of any trans person I know or know of who is not struggling with mental illness(es). I do think it would be beneficial to find other ways to treat/deal with dysphoria, for several reasons that I’ve discussed in old posts.

I don’t care to eliminate trans people- and I think you’re misinterpreting what the Helens are saying. I care to eliminate the ability of male trans people to disrupt my rights, colonize my spaces and language, etc. I care to eliminate the idea that the truth is bigotry. Those types of things are what I care about- as I said, what you do to yourself is your business and I don’t care about that at all.

Im not sure how to find the words to articulate what I’m trying to say, but I feel like “transition” should be a last resort, and instead it’s what seems to be being pushed with no attempt to find alternative treatment. I don’t think wanting there to be other forms of dealing with dysphoria (which could/would lead to fewer trans people) is the same as wanting to eliminate trans people altogether.

Eta- clever flair

Oregon's "Menstrual Dignity Act" will require schools to put menstruation products in boy's bathrooms by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think most of the feminine hygiene products put in boys bathrooms will just be played with/opened up and looked at/thrown at each other etc by some of the actual boys in the schools more than they’ll benefit any girls who use the boys room, realistically

GC: what if sex ceases to exist in the future? by BadMorning in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t think people need help understanding that TW are men or TM are women lmao

The knowledge wouldn’t be for nothing, because at some point in time (literally for an incredibly long period of time…) people would have had sexes.

The real question is, imo, what the eff would happen to qt/trans people if sex in humans ceased to exist? They’d cease to exist as well (meaning transition and all the made up genders would cease to exist- not the people themselves), since there’d be nothing to "transition" toward or from. GC people would just evolve. Except there’d be no need to cal them GC since there’d be no issues about sex/gender.

Also- evolution doesn’t occur because the concept of evolving wants or doesn’t want something, there would need to be an actual reason for it.

As far as why we shouldn’t stop caring- what would anyone care about? If there’s no sex there’s no issue because we’d all be exactly the same.

Eta- the effort wouldn’t have been in vain, because the fact that people evolved out of sex (and thus transition ceased to exist once that happened) would just prove to everyone that GC was right all along lmao

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Perfect example of you ignoring the things you can’t address.

Are you waiting for tra Twitter to feed you the party line about prisons before you acknowledge that part?

I know I’m inserting myself into another convo but I can’t not point out yet another instance of you ignoring the point/a question posed to you because you can’t handle it.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel sorry for her. I just responded but it’s pointless. She responds in circles and seems to have no understanding of anything beyond tra Twitter points

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don’t want to ban them because they may be dangerous. I want to ban them because they should stay in the spaces meant for their sex. You can say whatever you want about not agreeing with sex based spaces, can even try to point out it’s not a constitutional right- they exist. Today they still exist. The purpose of their existence should be upheld because it’s the whole point. As I said, either abolish any concept of sex based anything or uphold them. It’s complete privilege and bullshit to allow specific men access to female spaces because they claim a sense of self they couldn’t begin to truly understand.

It’s not harassment to tell a man to get out of female spaces. They don’t belong there. They shouldn’t be there to begin with.

Sex is not a constitutional right. It’s a fact lol. It’s declared in nature, biology, everywhere. Lmao

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your personal opinion isn’t really relevant to what we are discussing and you tend to cling to it when you have no argument. The world doesn’t revolve around you and it’s sad that you can’t engage with what people are saying without resorting to your opinions when you have no rebuttal lol

You understand the concept of sex based spaces as well as the issue we are discussing. So that whole second paragraph is meaningless. You know what we are discussing. It’s just fruitless to skirt around it.

It is, at the least, annoying as fuck when males enter female spaces. Their very presence is annoying (again, to say the least). It is my problem that males can disrupt my spaces. That’s what we are fighting against. So again, not sure what point you’re trying to make. I don’t even think you’re sure. You just repeat what they taught you to say lol

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And the pages and pages I could provide would vastly outnumber your links. You can ignore it all you want, the whole world knows what I’m saying is true. It’s not even a claim denied by tras, so I’m not sure why you’re trying to avoid admitting it lol

It’s not being “banned from a public space”. Its being banned from a space in a public setting that is intended to be for the sex they are not. They can enter the public space the female space is in, they shouldn’t enter the specifically female space. Stop exaggerating.

No, men should not have a curfew. This is not related to the subject at all tho.

No, women with records shouldn’t be forced to use the space meant for the opposite sex. Because a criminal record has no bearing on the sex of the person with the record so wtf are you even thinking? Saying sex based spaces should remain sex based has nothing to do with this and you’re desperately reaching at this point lmao

Your condemnation means nothing but stay woke buddy

We don’t want to keep males out of female spaces just because they may cause harm. We want to keep males out of female spaces because they are male. As in, not female. It’s that simple.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If males aren’t allowed in female spaces then there should be no males for a woman to have to ask to leave a female space so…

You wouldn’t have any basis for asking a female to leave a female space just because she spoke up for her rights.

Also- if a woman is bothered by a male in a space he doesn’t belong he is in fact bothering her just by being there.

That’s the thing- if women were protected and respected, that man would be in the wrong no matter what just for entering the space to begin with, and any woman would have every right to speak up.

Once again, that’s not the point. I very clearly asked “if you entered a female space and there were no males would you feel unsafe or any discomfort?” Why then, did you ignore that question and make up a scenario that has nothing to do with my question? Is it because you have no answer to my actual question that doesn’t prove my point? Deflection deflection deflection. All the time with you.

You didn’t correct anyone. You just forced your view point into yet another person. A view point you can’t back up. Can you prove to anyone, including your father, that are in fact women?

And according to you, I mean you LOVE pointing this out so idk how you forgot so quickly, SOME women are supporting it (as well as some men, just less men than women). Some doesn’t mean all. Or most (another thing I’ve reminded you of many times). It just means some. So I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with that last question?

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Every time. GB even ignores what her own data actually indicates every time she posts a poll lol

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh you have specific incidents. How cool.

It would take me a lifetime to post links to the crimes committed by men.

That’s the point.

You can single out female cases because they are significantly, drastically, fewer than male cases. You can’t get past this by pointing out specific cases (which wasn’t what I asked, so this was a supreme waste of effort on your part).

The fact still remains this is a minute percentage in comparison to male crimes.

You can’t trick me into forgetting my point or pointing out that you’re avoiding my points lol

Nice try tho, I clearly didn’t say that women never commit these types of crimes, I said they are significantly less likely than men, that men commit these crimes something like <90% of the time.

Are you ever going to stop deflecting and actually address what we say?

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So every single time in your life you entered a female space and there was no male you actively felt discomfort? Why?

I don’t mean you feel upset for trans people, I mean actual discomfort or a sense of being unsafe. Not just upset you didn’t get your way.

More likely doesn’t mean a high amount. It just means more women than men. And trans people know that. They count on it. My point still stands.

GC argument is that tw are men. Until you disprove that nothing you come at me with will matter. They are men. They belong in male spaces. End of.

🎉OMG YOURE SO WOKE YOU HAD THE GUTS TO “CORRECT” YOUR OWN DADDY! PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK (because no one else gives a fuck, probably including your dad)🎉

Your dad was right, Rachel is an obvious man.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How many mean and violent women are attacking strangers or attacking people in public spaces?

Most, almost all, of those true crimes and news stories are crimes committed by women situations where the woman knew the person she killed/harmed, it’s damn near exclusively men who are perpetrating the types of crimes that we are discussing preventing by maintaining sex based spaces. In addition to most of the crimes we see on the news and in true crime docs (that have nothing to do with this discussion but are similar to the crimes committed by mean and violent women) being perpetrated by males.

Im not negating the meanness and violence of the women who do commit those crimes, I’m saying that almost all of the time, it’s an entirely different set of circumstances than what we are discussing.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those women wouldn’t be uncomfortable or unsafe because men can’t enter our spaces. They are just open to sharing spaces. Those are two very different mindsets. You don’t have any evidence that proves that the 60% would actively be uncomfortable with TW not sharing spaces. Until you do- you can’t really claim that.

Eta: 60% being open to sharing does not equal 60% of women actually being tras/believing TWAW. They could, and likely do, just believe that TW are at risk and are open to protecting them by sharing spaces, or they just don’t mind sharing spaces regardless. Again- two different mindsets. 60% of women haven’t fully drank the kool aid, they just took a sip. Im not deciding if they’d be safe- if your argument is that it’s safe to have males in our spaces, it would obviously still be safe to not have males in our spaces. I’m not sure why you’re pretending that I’m deciding they’d be safe- they literally would be. According to you, they’d be just as safe either way.

And yes thank you, I’m well aware that girls grow up to become women, I’m asking if you have any data on the girls who exist who have not yet grown into women. Obviously you don’t or if you do it doesn’t say what you want it to say, which is why you deflected.

And if “thats what you want too” you just admitted that specific males are being given privileges over females. No point for me to make there, it’s just funny that you did that.

QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thing is, 40% is a lot of uncomfortable women, even if it’s not the majority. Also, what about girls? Do you have any polls or stats on the feelings of the underage girls who use those spaces too?

The 60% of women who dgaf would still be safe if all females had their own spaces. They’d be fine. 60% is not enough to dismantle safe spaces for 100% of females for >1% of men. 60% shouldn’t have the right to take away from 40% when the issue is safety in their own spaces and maintaining that safety doesn’t harm the 60%.

In all honesty at this point I’m almost petty enough to just agree to unisex everything rather than give specific men special privileges over me. But I recognize what you don’t- that my personal opinion shouldn’t dictate anything meant for all females. I really wish you’d get past your own views and realize that you are one of billions. Billions. Which would mean that millions/billions of women are uncomfortable with males of any type in their spaces. Why should we ignore that because percentage-wise it’s slightly less than half of women? Women who, again, would not lose anything if our spaces were upheld and respected.

Also, the streets are (hopefully) not restrooms so that bit is irrelevant.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It is child abuse and good on them for attempting to prevent it. Fuck Abbott in general but what’s that saying about broken clocks being right sometimes?

Also love how here you call it “trans identified” but act as if adult trans people actually identify as the opposite sex instead of as trans lol.

QT: Why TM don't mind using women's spaces when it suits them? And why TW don't follow their example? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s absurd and laughable to act as if nobody looks male or obviously trans lol. I can name, off the top of my head, a dozen transwomen who look both visibly trans and obviously male. And half the human population looks (and is) male.

They identify as trans- give them a trans bathroom.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Monosexual lesbians is an oxymoron lmao

Unless you mean people from Lesbos

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again- it’s not your place to say that it’s nothing harassment if the men on that sub feel harassed.

And idk how old you are but you need to grow out of thinking that what you personally think is always accurate and right instead of simply being what you personally think.

It is not at all a fact that a transman is not a female. Until you can provide proof of that statement, you saying it means nothing. If transmen weren’t female, they’d not be transmen. No man has a vagina. Transmen do. They are two very different things. And like I said, the onus is on the people claiming that TMAM to prove it. No one has EVER successfully done that.

And actuallesbians doesn’t have any actual lesbians, just a bunch of men with mental issues and some bisexual women or even straight women virtue signaling.

Having a transman ruin the AGB sub by being a mod wouldn’t change the opinions rampant there (and amongst gay men in general), all that would accomplish is gay men finding another outlet and their comments being deleted.

You can censor the rest of us- you clearly can’t brainwash all of us. That’s what you don’t seem to get. It doesn’t matter how effective tras are at silencing reality online, reality still exists and is acknowledged irl. That has been a huge part of the point I’ve been making.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reddit banned gc subs… yet gc leaning comments are allover Reddit. That’s kinda my whole point… you constantly repeating that a forum run by tras banned gc subs isn’t really a point. We all know, that’s literally why we are here- yet comments tras dislike are still allover reddit despite the bans. I honestly don’t know how else to explain this? What are you not understanding?

Sure, you can point out specific bans, but what about the actual comments from thousands of users on all of these forums? Why are you ignoring this?

The gay men on AGB are pretty clear about hating the posts from transmen ans are clear on how they feel about transmen in general. I don’t think it’s your place to say they aren’t being harassed if that’s the sentiment they’ve expressed. They don’t always use the word harass, but it’s clear they hate when transmen make their desperate posts.

If that’s “the problem”, you have yet again proven my point for me. Despite the bans and restrictions and constant bitching, gay men are still saying the same shit.

And again, for what must be the hundredth time: can you site proof that transmen are men? If not, it’s pretty reckless and disingenuous to claim that they are. It’s pretty clear that the men on AGB don’t see them as such… which… has been my point this whole time lmao

Eta: “would you date me?” “Why won’t you date me?” “You’re awful if you don’t date me!” “Here’s why you should consider dating me” Over and over and over again despite them making it clear that they hate those posts (and making the answer pretty fucking clear several times) is kind of harassment. If a man did that to a woman you’d know it was harassment, odd that you don’t see it because the harassers are trans

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The surveys say the same thing the comments say. I’ve already addressed this. Your own link shows this.

It keeps getting lower because more people are informing themselves and/or likely getting tired of tras. We’ve covered this. Several times, on several posts.

Major sites may ban gc views (which sites, btw? I see them everywhere all the time), but they have to close comment sections or delete many comments to avoid people viewing their sites from sharing gc views.

Ben Shapiro’s popularity depends on who you ask. And Reddit is run by tras and transmen constantly harass the men on AGB so of course the men there being honest get called transphobic/TERFS, it’s Reddit, It’s like the trans hub of the internet lol. The actual men on AGB aren’t calling each other transphobes, transmen who are salty that actual gay men don’t want them are.

The sites are banned to coddle your trans buddies. As I’ve said, the opinions of the rest of the world are there to see despite the banning. The fact that people still find ways to make their comments and express their opposition when your masters try so hard to silence any dissent is telling. You can go on and on about how a community that mostly clings to online forums because the world doesn’t accept them controls a lot of online forums… who cares? Irl, nobody gaf about what tras are bitching about and we have lives outside of the internet so it’s not as big of a deal to not be able to speak freely everywhere online, we speak freely amongst ourselves (and still find ways to do it online- you keep ignoring the point about there being content and comments all over that lean gc, despite your points)

Why even bother banning sites and trying to control narratives (like how tras told us all not to read jkr’s letter or watch Chappelle’s specials- they told us to just listen to their opinions on both of these)? If you have to go to such lengths to silence others, it comes across as if you are afraid of what’s being said/you think it’s harmful. It can only be harmful if many others agree with it.

The banning and silencing proves nothing but that tras know they are full of shit and narcissism and don’t want others to be able to point it out.

And yet, despite your points that you think prove something meaningful- approval rates for the trans community continues to drop. Support in general for trans people continues to drop, even if slowly. I’m not sure how you think that means people are on your side.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

“king”

Did you just misgender me?

*reports you to competent admins

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats. The only difference is that they are men. They are saying the same shit as radfems. It’s absurd to pretend this isn’t true when it’s out there to hear, read and see. The fact that you have to ask a sub to clean up because the men there say things you don’t like is not proving you’re right- it’s proving you’re wrong.

Nobody, generally speaking, gives a fuck about you trying to be a dictator lol. You think it means anything to the general public that some rando is preaching to them? Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working. The rest of us don’t care, it’s just that some of us will be polite and pretend it’s not ridiculous to call a man she/her or a woman he/him.

You just said Reddit doesn’t represent the population so idk why you think it matters that it’s run by tras and they banned some subs. They banned those subs because they were offended by what people who aren’t tras think.

Once again- you just prove my point for me. It’s like we’re a team.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

  1. What did you call out? I wasn’t even making my own arguments- I was trying to understand yours because no matter how many times you replied you didn’t articulate yourself in a way that made any sense-something you sort of acknowledged yourself at one point. I also tried to explain what I meant because you gave me the impression of not understanding what I was saying. I even said it sounded to me like you were saying the same agit as me but acting like I was wrong to say it- that’s not making up arguments, that’s me trying to understand wtf you were on about.

You made an off handed comment that didn’t make sense and wasn’t accurate. You made it about them being rich as if it had anything to do with the point. And even when I asked about specific rich/famous people that had been canceled you ignored me when you shouldn’t have if making that point was your actual intent.

-2. Your theory of me wanting to pick a fight (as you continue to drag this out and are now picking a fight with BiR and dragging my name) makes no sense because I was already going back and forth with GenderBender- it was you who picked a fight with me when you inserted yourself and started a counter to my comment. I replied. To something you started. And it went from there.

It’s astonishing that you aren’t sympathetic to qt since you debate just like them.

And yes I know I was told to stop just like you were but it’s hard to stop when someone keeps mentioning me.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just today there was a thread titled If Laverne Cox is an inspiring black woman then so is Rachel Dolezal.

Nothing to add here so please ignore me. but this is actually hilarious and perfect.

Like how? Laverne Cox is a black woman

Like how indeed lol

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

😂😂😂

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is not moving on, you keep making snarky comments but I’m somehow wrong for responding? I asked you to clarify and you didn’t. Seemed like you didnt understand the conversation that was being had so, yeah I tried to explain. And then tried to understand wtf you were even trying to say. You could have articulated what you meant at any point. You chose to be snarky instead. It’s odd you’d say I’m starved for conflict when you started this by jumping into a thread between me and someone else to begin with. It’s both of us. And I still have no clue what you’re point was to begin with. De-hostilling environments, my ass.

And sorry BIR, I just think it’s unfair for a mod to bait someone and then blame them for responding. I’ll stop. Maybe we should collectively vote on mods in the future.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do what you gotta do buddy. You still make no sense lol

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So… the people I listed who were canceled for other things weren’t rich? Got it. It’s not just about money. The entire conversation i was having had nothing to do with money and everything to do with, let me say it yet again: THE PUBLIC RESPONSE TO WHAT WAS SAID. Jesus. I am literally pointing out that when “cancellation” was demanded, the general public laughed at them. That’s the whole point. I don’t know how else to explain it to you so I’m moving on.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But your main point is wrong, they just aren’t canceled over trans issues

Roseanne Barr was taken off of her own show.

What’s the last Mel Gibson movie you saw?

The guy from Greys Anatomy got fired and doesn’t really work at all any more.

Whos going to see Kramer do stand up?

What’s Paula Dean up to?

It’s been time to stop because you’ve had no point to make this whole time lol

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Omg maya forstater wasn’t famous before she got fired. She is known for being fired. I’m talking about Issaih Washington getting fired from grey’s and not really working again for homophobic remarks. I’m talking about Roseanne and Paula Dean and the dude from Seinfeld and Mel Gibson. Name an actual famous celebrity who has been canceled for transphobia? Also, can you link proof that everyone/most people who speaks out about trans issues gets fired?

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I could list a hundred famous people who were canceled for racism or even homophobia. I cannot name a single one who was truly canceled for TraNsPhoBia. Because as much as there’s virtue signaling and faux support, as much as gc gets vilified, when it comes down to it, most people just don’t gaf about trans people complaining. Most people are sick of the complaining.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Okay then you’re not really even talking about what we were talking about so…

  1. Maya was fired. That’s not canceled. And I’m saying that this doesn’t happen to 99% of people who go online and say that sex is real. It shouldn’t have happened to maya. But unless you can show that every person or even most people who say something true on Twitter get fired for it, Im not sure why you are acting like every woman who makes a post on Twitter that tras don’t like loses their job? Also, maya wa supported both verbally and financially by people who thought her being fired was wrong- that’s not being canceled.

-2. The fact that there are enough people out there who agree with Shapiro, Walsh, and White that they could build their platform and not be canceled IS LITERALLY MY POINT. Again, GB and I were talking about the percentage of people who are being “held hostage” to trans demands. I used social media as an indication of how people really feel. I still don’t see why you are trying to say that what I’m saying is wrong and none of your responses are making it clear to me.

-3. And I’m saying, once again, that not only were they not canceled, they were supported and tras were told to calm down and that chappelle and Rowling said nothing wrong/transphobic. That’s what the general public said. To tras. So, yet again- given the context of why this was even brought up by me in the first place- you aren’t proving me wrong. At all. You’re saying what I’m saying but acting like it goes against what I said. They weren’t canceled because nobody really GAF about how upset tras were.

Are there people who get screwed over for their honesty? Absolutely, is it true that most people who are publicly honest about their views on tras/trans people are losing their jobs? No. It’s not. Or we’d see more stories of it. Some people have to put up with pronouns and bathroom shit at school and work, yes it’s bad. But, for hopefully the final time, I was talking about people expressing opinions that differ from the tra party line, on social media. We can all still do that. A lot of people are doing this. And getting more upvotes and support and than the tras arguing with them. I was asked how I know that most people agree with gc. I said the comments people choose to make and the statuses they post allover sm is how. So I’m still not sure what you’re trying to do here with your comments. And I’m tired of repeating myself so have a good one

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, Being fired and being canceled are two different things. You can’t really cancel someone most people don’t know. I already acknowledged that people who refer to themselves as gc/radfem are vilified, threatened, etc and why. So the only one implying what you’re saying I implied is you.

You can literally go on any social media and read any relevant comment section and see thousands of people call out tra bullshit. Most of them don’t lose their jobs or even get their accounts suspended. I know this because I can still see their comments and their account. Yes it does happen sometimes, and it shouldn’t. But my point is still that there are just as many “bigots” online expressing themselves as there are “people just trying to live their truth”.

My whole point was that most people think and say the same shit that the people who do get canceled or fired say- they just don’t call themselves gc/radfems or they aren’t women. And again, even when they do, they don’t generally face repercussions other than tras ganging up on them online while likeminded individuals gang up on the tras.

The point wasn’t even about social or financial danger- it’s about the signs that the general public agrees with gc points more than qt points, regardless of what happens to the person making the points. The point is that when it comes down to it, most people see where Gc is coming from when they have to think deeper on the subject than they normally would.

And some tras literally posted jk Rowling’s personal address online encouraging people to harass her. so she actually could have been in danger. And she got the same death and rape threats most gc women get, probably a thousand times over.

And Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, and Blaire White are all people who could easily be canceled. And they certainly do not have more wealth than small countries. Idk Shapiro’s net worth but for sure the other two.

They attempted to cancel Rowling and punish Chappelle- the general public laughed at them and rolled their eyes for it. THAT’S my point.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Further- People like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Blaire White who is trans himself, all have thriving social media pages on various platforms and huge followings. Further proof that the issue is not what gc says- it’s that the people associated with gender critical are WOMEN. when it comes from a man’s mouth, widespread agreement, and tras in a corner of the internet crying violence and spouting false statistics and half truths. (Yes I’m aware that those are all conservative men- but even people who aren’t conservatives are in agreement when it comes to trans issues, that’s my point. Even when they disagree with other stuff, they agree here. The fact that non conservatives are even willing to admit they agree with conservatives on anything is just how clear it is that most of the 99% are not here for tra bs)

Even the Wii spa lady was supported, despite the seething rage from tras.

Dave chapelle- not canceled

Queen J K Rowling herself- not canceled. Even amongst tras they’re so desperate to cling to her works that they try to act as if she’s no longer associated with Harry Potter.

Even Maya forestsarter got to come back from her "cancellation"

I think you’re so ensconced in your gender uwu circle jerk bubble that you just don’t see what is actually going on outside of it.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My whole thing is, if the general population was really as accepting and open to trans people as GB seems to think they are…

What the fuck are tras and trans people still complaining about? Certainly not the super small amount of people who don’t drink their kool-aid. It doesn’t make sense that we keep getting told that there’s an epidemic of violence and their rights are being stripped from them and all the other stuff they bitch about daily if what GB is saying is true.

Even the link GB offered states that the percentage of people in favor of trans people using the bathroom/space that matched their actual sex is increasing. None of what GB is saying checks out (shocker, I know).

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is. So I’m saying they DGAF about trans people either way, they just accept the lie of “just wanting to pee" because they are under-informed and want the well being of others. But when other issues come up, they clearly lean gender critical when they are confronted with the subject.

I don’t think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

Gender critical views are all over all of the sites you listed lmao. Yes select people get “canceled”, but the views of the majority are allover. I juuuuust got through watching a gender critical channel on YouTube and this very site links several Twitter threads of people acknowledging how insane tras are. There are even low key subs on Reddit where the comments are full of people laughing at how ridiculous tras sound.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

Interesting how you have so much to say in response to my comment but won’t address that you misinterpreted your own link. The very link that would tell you what I’m typing now.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. I love when tras accidentally prove themselves wrong and prove that we aren’t bigots

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im saying that most people may be fine with bathrooms because they don’t realize the further implications. We generally want others to be safe- that’s what they’re relying on. But as I said, your link actually indicates thst the amount of people who think trans people should use the spaces that corelate to the reality of their sex is what is actually increasing. Read your link more thoroughly.

I dont think actual trans people are brainwashed- I think they’re severely mentally ill. I think their simps, including you, are brainwashed. Why else would you believe so fervently in something so easily disproved?

As far as the 60%- as I said, they aren’t paying attention to the bigger picture and still, the link you provided doesn’t say what you think it says or prove what you think it proves- it actually proves the tide is slowly turning.

And I used to think like you, and when pressed, I couldn’t back up my claims either. If You dont eventually peak, its because you just refuse to out of religious belief. You’ve never actually even attempted to provide evidence to the TWAW tmam thing, and the "evidence" you link always proves you wrong lol. I’d bet you secretly know gc is right already. See you soon on the gc side lol. Don’t worry, living in reality is fun too.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The fact that the response is backlash instead of clarification and easing concerns is incredibly alarming.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also- "Compared to 2017, backing for the policy is numerically higher across all partisan groups"

This is for people in favor of them using spaces designated for their sex. Sex. Not gender identity. Your link doesn’t prove what you think it proves. It proves that more people want them to use the proper sex based space than in 2017.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im confident most people, male or female, aren’t well informed on this subject. Most people buy the "we just want to pee" bullshit. So I’m not surprised that there’s a large percentage that’s willing to make some men the exception to the sex based rule- they don’t understand that giving an inch to TW gives away our whole sex. I also know people are afraid to be honest about this subject, but 40% is a lot of uncomfortable women. That’s too high a percentage to me for this to be okay.

As far as your beliefs- we’ll see lol. This ideology is more illogical that actual recognized religions. It will crumble. It’s not sustainable. Unless you’re trans yourself, you’ll eventually see how ridiculous this whole thing is. I have asked you several times for proof that TWAW, you can’t provide it, that’s how I know you’ll eventually see the light.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your comments all through out this sub are the proof and yes, males using their male privilege to rob women and girls of spaces free from them are absolutely violating our rights. We can’t even play sports without men forcing their way into that anymore. Even if they weren’t violating our rights they’re erasing us. You’ll see one day. And when you do I hope this sub is still here so I can say I told you so.

The reason I know you’ll see one day is because you’ve never commented anything that has come across as your own independent thought. It’s so obvious that you’re repeating the party lines that it’s pretty clear that you’ve been indoctrinated. You’ll learn. Most women eventually do.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just feel like you only think about what you want and what an incredibly small portion of the population wants. It’s so incredibly selfish, harmful, and dangerous to others.

Jim Crow laws got worse before they got better, so idk why you think laws changing means they are fair and reasonable laws in the first place.

It will never be okay to hold 99% of the population hostage to the views and beliefs of 1%. Not ever. And any community that needs to step on the rights, equality and dignity of another group to get what they want is nothing less than toxic.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans women are not men

You always say this but can’t ever prove it. How can you make this statement as if it’s fact when you can’t prove the fact of it?

If TWAW none of us would be here discussing this or anything else on this sub.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im saying you know the concept of changing rooms being sexed. So saying what you’re saying about public spaces is you avoiding the point. Changing rooms and bathrooms are meant to be (semi) private (sex based) spaces in public spaces. You know this. You understand this. It does nothing to act like you don’t.

And these facilities are still sex segregated- aside from people who think their sense of self matter more than actual reality. Gender identity can’t even be proven or accurately defined yet somehow how a man feels about himself matters more than the equality and safety of females as a whole.

Jim Crow laws were laws once. Humans could literally own, buy, and sell other humans. Husbands used to be able to rape their wives and the wives would be told that it wasn’t rape because they were marrried. Children ( actually no, pretty much just exclusively young girls, regardless of what their gender identity may have been) could legally be married to grown men.

Just because a law exists doesn’t mean it’s not absolutely wrong.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A changing room at a gym or store etc is a public place

Why do you do this? Why do you act like you don’t know exactly what we are talking about? It does nothing but allow you to avoid addressing the topic while we all waste time trying to get you to address the topic. And then you ghost instead of ever actually addressing the topic lol

You know damn well that, while yes, these are technically public spaces (rather, they are semi private spaces in public spaces), they are spaces that are intended to be sex segregated. So no, actually, a man/male should not have access to those spaces despite them being in a public space.

I'm a cis woman myself. I'm wary of people of all sexes if they are behaving oddly or doing something to make me uncomfortable. They can be strangers or sometimes even people I know. I am never wary of someone solely because of their sex.

Must be nice. All women aren’t like you. Most of us have been taught to be wary of males (as a precaution) from a young age. Some of us don’t need to be taught to be wary because shit has already happened to make us wary from a young age. These subjects and issues are about all of us, not just you. I still can’t understand how you don’t get that. I never will understand how you don’t get that.

How much do we owe to strangers? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"How much discomfort, fear, or risk of harm is acceptable to ask of a stranger? "

Thing is- why is it that the female strangers have to do this for the male strangers, but the male strangers wouldn’t do it for the female strangers? Women can just as easily ask TW to "dismantle or simply put aside their discomfort, fear for safety, and needs for privacy, in order to accommodate females who wish to maintain/reinstate spaces that had previously been for women only." But they clearly won’t… so…

My answer to the question is: none. Strangers don’t owe each other shit.

"Is it reasonable to request or expect another person to ignore their own perceptions or to hide and lie about their perceptions?"

No. It’s narcissistic and any one who doesn’t understand how ridiculous this request is is a walking breathing red flag of a human being.

There are emergency situations where I could understand a stranger intervening (or a stranger expecting another to intervene on their behalf)- but they aren’t obligated to intervene (unless it’s literally their job- and even then, there are circumstances when even a professional would be advised not to intervene.)

QT: Why TM don't mind using women's spaces when it suits them? And why TW don't follow their example? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]loveSloane 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nobody looks “cis” because “cis” is bullshit.

I believe that most of the time we can all very clearly discern someone’s sex. I do think there are some (honestly probably most) trans people who are “visibly trans”.

So who gets to decide which spaces “visibly trans” (in other words, obviously not the sex they wish to be seen as, but clearly trans) people get to use?

That’s my point, “use the bathroom it looks like you’re supposed to use”- but when someone is clearly trans but also clearly male, which one do they look like they are supposed to use? QT would say the women’s room, others, myself included, would say the men’s.