Homophobia in the Gender Critical Movement?

spinningIntelligence · 2024-11-04T22:35:12+00:00

I agree that pointing out misogyny in gay male culture is not homophobic. But condemning homosexuality itself is.

It's can be a little galling that so many gay men use the words "bitches", "sluts", or "cunts", and then complain about this. But we can't descend to that level, we can't mock the legitimite trauma so many gay men suffered because we're angry, even though so many (but not all) do it to us. And we can't deny that men have the ability to choose to not be assholes.

Leaving aside any ethical considerations, it's bad for our image. And we're not going to change shit without better PR.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-08-05T20:40:41+00:00

Oi vey. Saying that lesbians are women is not rape apologia.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-28T20:47:30+00:00

I think you're spot on. This is where we are quickly heading, and too many people are too stupid/selfish/lazy/overworked/gaslit/tired/scared to see it.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-28T20:45:13+00:00

This is horrifying. If this person is real, I hope she gets through this unscathed. Are there any positive influences in her life?

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-28T20:32:14+00:00

I've met many animals, and the animals are considerably less terrible.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-10T04:30:12+00:00

Well, there will probably be a lot more men coming out as supergay in the next few days, so thanks!

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-10T04:27:00+00:00

Yes, we must respect the pronouns. But they need not respect our personhood.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-10T04:19:40+00:00

..... How? How did any of this sound like a good idea?

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-04T05:09:03+00:00

Sexual abuse is a crime, no matter if you throw money at your victim afterwards. Dickheads.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-03T07:43:29+00:00

How could you ever have doubted?

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-03T07:38:17+00:00

........... What?

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-03T07:37:05+00:00

That's a good point, but keep in mind that it's American children who are suffering, not Middle Eastern ones.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-03T07:26:03+00:00

What are you talking about? This is a men's entitlement movement that feminists have been fighting against for years.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-01T22:38:26+00:00

I legit couldn't even read that all the way through. This is abuse, and whoever did the surgery should be in prison.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-01T22:31:29+00:00

That is very funny and insightful. Gender identity would probably one of the worst ideas ever, even without the implication for women and children's freedom.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-01T22:29:22+00:00

Indeed. I think we place arbitrary limits on what people can do with these stereotypes. I was just pointing out that the stereotypes don't even make internal sense, let alone when contrasted with the real world.

spinningIntelligence · 2021-03-01T05:51:10+00:00

Please donate to my charity, Chainsaws for Children. It is an absolute travesty that so many are deprived the chance to lose an arm in our juggling classes.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-29T23:19:30+00:00

Excellent comment. I wish I had read this when I was a teenager.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T20:42:14+00:00

"Man up" is a command to get men to take some responsibility, and implies that strength is a fundementally male trait.

"Get back in the kitchen" means "woman, you are not a person; you exist to fulfill my desires".

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T20:38:55+00:00

Girls are immune to starvation, after all. That's why girls are often given less food than their brothers.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T20:35:50+00:00

Prostitution is sexual abuse. Being against sexual abuse does not mean shaming sexual abuse victims. And sexual abuse victims are not "sluts".

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T20:31:42+00:00

Being against sexual.abuse does not mean shaming sexual abuse victims. Prostituted women and girls ("sex workers" includes pimps, to be clear) are victims of sexual abuse, and just because someone throws money at them doesn't mean it's remotely tolerable.

Of course it's a matter of survival for women; that's why radical feminists are against it. Again, these women and girls are victims of sexual abuse; they're not "sluts".

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T20:21:54+00:00

After a lifetime of socialization, I'd be more surprised if you couldn't tell the difference. There being a difference doesn't say anything about the cause of that difference.

How about we support LGB rights because it doesn't harm anyone and there's no reason not to? Just because something is inborn doesn't mean it's good, and just because something isn't doesn't mean it's bad. The cause of homosexuality and bisexuality are irrelevant to the validity of gay rights.

If you think saying "no such thing as brain sex" damages support for gay rights, then you'd also have to argue that the "born this way" arguement supports things like pedophilia. Because the pedophile movement does compare itself to the gay rights movement in this way. And to preempt any knee-jerk responses, no, I am not comparing pedophilia to homosexuality.

And so what if it's fringe? The mainstream accepts a lot of nonsensical bullshit about women, and it isn't right just because it's mainstream. There are lots of things that don't look good to outsiders (like being against gender identity, for example), that doesn't mean we shouldn't say them.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T20:08:16+00:00

Lesbians not wanting to have sex with TIMs doesn't need approval from an MRI machine. Even if it were proven tomorrow that homosexuality is 100% a conscious choice (it's not), that wouldn't make it any more permissable for men to pressure lesbians into sex.

Homosexuality isn't okay because it's innate, it's okay because it doesn't harm anyone. And there's also a 0% chance of accidental pregnancy.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-25T19:18:32+00:00

Yes it is. That wasn't the point of my comment.

The point was that we should be able to talk about things like male violence or white privilege without having to consider each individual snowflake, which is what OP was suggesting we do.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-22T04:36:30+00:00

How is pointing out racism "victimhood culture"? Is pointing out misogyny victimhood culture? Are we part of victimhood culture by saying the trans movement is anti-woman?

This hatred of the "Oppression Olympics" is honestly laughable. Yes, liberal idiots have turned being oppressed into a checklist. That does not mean that we can ignore oppression!

Why should women of colour feel more connected to white women than to their own families? A Black woman may not be friends with a single white woman, but her brothers, her lovers, her SONS may be Black.

So really, what is this unity you are proposing? What value does it have? Because it sounds like you're expecting women of colour to drop everything to campaign for white women to be free, even though a woman of colour may be oppressed far more directly due to her race (she may inherent her family's poverty, for example). And if she is a lesbian, than what direct benefit does she get from the feminist movement rather than the gay rights movement? She's not going to get pregnant, and the gay rights movement supports single sex spaces too. Sure, the gay movement won't care about single sex bathrooms as much, but that may not be a pressing concern for her. There are other things happening in the world apart from transgenderism; we don't get to demand that everyone focus on this one thing that we have decided to fight. There are people in the world without access to clean water; why are we worrying about bathrooms?

Racism is an out growth of patriarchy, like transgenderism; we cannot ignore it because holding ourselves to the same standards we hold other oppressive groups (for example, men) to makes us uncomfortable. Feminism, unlike many other movements, cannot be divorced from class, or race, or country, or orientation, because misogyny is the ur example of oppression. All manner of foul things grow from it.

Real unity requires recognizing these hideous outgrowths. It requires fighting them, and standing beside our disadvantaged sisters as much as we can. We do not get to create a "victimhood culture" in response to transgenderism, but berate others for doing the same.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-21T22:22:47+00:00

Um, I think you mean HIMione. #StopDeadNaming #LiteralViolence

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-21T21:43:08+00:00

Men are raped, too, you know? And women can be abusers, so why talk about MALE violence specifically? We're all in this together, and this is just creating unnecessary division.

And why talk about the misogyny of liberal men if we're all fighting for other causes together? We need to be united, so don't bring up their misogyny otherwise you're "ruining" the movement.

Women's oppression is inextricably linked to family. If a woman's family is under constant threat of violence she cannot be free. You cannot ignore how racism impacts women, and pointing out racist behaviour isn't a threat to our "unity". Being racist, however, is.

Men aren't a monolith either but we still talk about men as a class. There are poor men, disabled men, men in developing countries without access to clean water let alone the internet, men who've been horrendously abused, men who've been beaten for being gay. And still male privilege exists.

I'm not sure what your point is here; don't point out racism if women do it? We should all be judged as individuals and we have no collective interests? Does this apply to obscenely wealthy women, too?

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-21T21:06:25+00:00

"Equality doesn't exist yet, so how could they overshoot?"

Well said.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-21T21:01:55+00:00

Boycotting isn't itself bad, the problem is that they're boycotting to support a stupid toxic cause.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-20T19:31:03+00:00

Which is winning. They are passing laws, despite most people not agreeing with them.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-20T03:10:54+00:00

It's not about getting their attention, necessarily. Other people who don't work at reddit will see those comments too.

One of the reasons the trans movement has been winning is because they make themselves heard EVERYWHERE. It doesn't even matter if it makes sense; the idea just has to planted in their head. Any opportunity we are presented with is worth taking.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-18T23:09:28+00:00

I thought it was Alpha/Beta/Omega, a dynamic you may be tragically familiar with if you read a lot of fanfiction.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-18T23:09:22+00:00

I thought it was Alpha/Beta/Omega, a dynamic you may be tragically familiar with if you read a lot of fanfiction.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-18T16:05:05+00:00

She points out a very crucial detail here: pedophiles need to get treatment, but building a culture or identity around pedophilia is dangerous. This behaviour cannot be normalized.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-17T20:41:48+00:00

If you're curious about radical feminism, there are a lot of online resources you can check out. FeministCurrent.com is probably a good starting point. Rageagainstthemanchine.com by Nine-Deuce is also a good place to dive in, though you need a Wordpress account.

Gail Dines has some videos on Youtube that explain some basic points about why pornography is bad for women (her videos aren't super depressing either, so that's a plus).

IF you decide to start speaking out, remember to take care of yourself. It's the responsibility of adults to deal with these problems, not teenagers.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-17T20:29:16+00:00

These women are survivors of medical abuse; I hope they know that they have nothing to be ashamed of. I feel horrified that hack doctors and therapists were able to abuse these women with impunity.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-17T19:40:00+00:00

Saying being against prostitution is "whorephobic" is so sickening and dumb. Being against sexual abuse does not being against sexual abuse victims. Prostitution is sexual abuse, and constantly banging on about how they were asking for it- I mean, they "chose" it, makes you a rape apologist.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-15T16:39:35+00:00

Side note, should we be sending this to as many media outlets as we can? Not all of us are in the UK, afterall.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-15T12:02:32+00:00

Even if lesbianism WERE 100% a choice (it's not), it wouldn't be okay. And it wouldn't make men any more entitled to it than they are now (not at all).

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-15T11:54:27+00:00

This is so sad. Oh, when will they ever have peace, these poor anime otomes!?!?!

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-14T19:29:22+00:00

This is a really good article. The last few paragraphs especially.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-13T22:57:20+00:00

Damn right. This really needs to be said louder for the people in back.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-13T17:32:43+00:00

You can express your opinion, and people pointing out how irrational and homophobic it is does not mean that they are from “wokeistan.”

Firstly, there has been decades of studies showing that same-sex couples raise children who are as healthy (if not more so) as children raised by straight couples. Yet despite your “doubt”, you didn’t bother looking them up yourself. Hmm; why would that be?

Secondly, fuck the studies we don’t need them, because the suspicions on same-sex couples, but not straight ones, is unjustifiable. Why are straight couples exempt from this suspicion, despite the fact that only straight couples can have an UNINTENDED pregnancy? Are you implying that children born to parents who may not want them are more likely to be healthy?

Why are straight couples the default for raising healthy kids if you yourself admit to not knowing whether or not same-sex couples could raise healthier kids? Why are lesbian couples under suspicion when it is men who are most likely to rape abuse and murder their families? Why are women deficient in raising children unless a man is around, despite the fact that women do most of the childcare? Does this doubt extend to single mothers? If women are less able to raise healthy children without a man, then why do so many people resent their step-fathers? Why is “one man and one woman” the default?

Thirdly, the straight community promotes pedophilia all the time: the trans movement is a straight men’s movement, pornography is increasingly sexualizing little girls, and most child sexual abuse is done by men to girls. Yet the LGB is so shameful that you want to get out of it and jump to the straight community?

Homophobia sliding under the radar in the guise of something noble is how we got into this mess. Trans hid their homophobia under a rainbow umbrella, and now people are “fighting back” against trans by tossing bile on the LGB.

I understand being uncomfortable with or hating your sexuality. Truly I do. Here is some reasoning that helped me realize that that was ridiculous:

The only meaningful distinction between a same-sex relationship and a straight one is the potential for UNINTENTED pregnancy. Unless unintended pregnancies have some inherent value that dwarfs all other aspects of a relationship and parenthood, and the lack of this risk is detrimental in some way, there is no reason to value straightness more than lesbianism (or celibacy).

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-13T16:11:19+00:00

I think if Pride were shifted to be a more romantic affair, if could be kid friendly. Sometimes all I wanted was to hug the girl I cared for, or hold her hand. It wasn't all about sex. If Pride could emphasize that, caring for your partner, rather than fucking them, I think it would actually be worthwhile going. Relationship workshops rather than BDSM ones.

And in my experience, yeah, I tried to learn from toxic men how to approach girls. Thankfully, I was also a coward and so never got close enough to severely damage someone before I got my shit (somewhat) together.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-13T15:50:20+00:00

I had my life ruined because I stood up against an undeniable injustice when I was a teenager, and was met with severe gaslighting and humiliation. I am almost 30 and still haven't recovered from the damage, and I never will. I will never forgive those who wronged me, much as I might want to.

Being the only one who sees or acknowledges something wrong changes the way you see other people; it can be isolating, even if the conversation is about something else. I hope you have at least one person in your life who you can have a private conversation with. If your friends don't fit the bill, is therapy an option? A therapist has to listen, even if they disagree (though some are irrational and unprofessional around this topic, in my experience).

I would say bide your time. You are a teenager: it's not your job to stand up to injustice. That's for us adults to do. Please just take care of yourself first. I know it's hard, especially when your parents homophobic. But you matter more than the sloppy opinions of a handful of teenagers and your parents.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-13T00:28:20+00:00

Oh my god, I legitimately thought that article was a parody. Is it not?

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-13T00:07:52+00:00

I'd call if "kissing up to power" rather than "kindness". They want the men to favour them so they'll follow orders without question; if it were actually kindness, then consideration would be given for the most vulnerable, ie. women and girls.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-12T23:48:52+00:00

You're not an idiot; you have a clever nickname, right?

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-11T10:11:24+00:00

Glad you didn't have your mind kidnapped by that cult.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-10T20:37:49+00:00

Yeah, this was about their experience with the medical industry. How disturbing is it that a particular group of people is not allowed to discuss the medical abuse they subjected to? Disgraceful.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-10T16:50:21+00:00

Fiction impacts the way we see the world; that is the point of it. Yes, it's nowhere near the nightmarescape of porn, but it should still be evaluated critically.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-10T16:45:40+00:00

Also, you don't identify your way into being intersex.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-10T01:51:48+00:00

I actually thought that was a joke when I read that.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-08T18:04:00+00:00

Stunning and brave.

spinningIntelligence · 2020-07-06T09:29:19+00:00

Horn implants would be awesome, and you know it.

spinningIntelligence