GC: What would you say to someone for who considers their transition to have been a massive improvement to their life and wellbeing? by pilf in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If an adult of sound mind and body is suffering and can find no peace or happiness, if therapy to reconcile to one's biological sex has not helped and their dysphoria is debilitating, then I have no problem with that person transitioning medically as long as they are fully informed of all the risks.

I would still be worried for their physical health. There is mountains of evidence that testosterone has a detrimental effect on female bodies in particular. I'm not as well informed about the risk of estrogen for male bodies, but none of these treatments are safe. The surgeries can be brutal and are all too often botched by surgeons who cannot easily be held accountable. But again, adults can make their own choices in that regard. If they weigh the risks and decide that a happy life now is worth it, then I have no quarrel with that.

The main thing is that medical transition should be a last resort. It should never be a first option or done for reasons of "euphoria." It's not something to play around with. These drugs and surgeries have significant risks that can permanently and irreversibly damage one's health.

Everything Else! 6/15/22 by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, I'm still here.

I'm doing okay. Kind of depressed about the state of the country.

Not much new going on in my life. I took a trip last month and flew on an airplane for the first time. Sounds kind of weird at my age, but I had never been before.

I haven't really watched any shows since Game of Thrones ended, but I'm looking forward to the prequel series.

My last meal? Comfort food. Mac and cheese, most likely.

My favorite type of pie is apple or maybe cherry pie. With a side of ice cream.

GC women: If you had been born male, and you felt unable to get the rest of the male community to behave better, wouldn't you be ashamed and embarassed too? Possibly to the point of wanting to hide it or make it ambiguous? by citydweller1 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly, that's never occurred to me. I do wish I had been born male. If I were male, I'd see myself as one of "the good ones," a provider and protector of those who are weaker. I don't think other men being predators would affect my self-concept. It would just strengthen my resolve to fight those bad actors.

GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I use men's restrooms half the time anyway, so I wouldn't personally care. It's not outside my comfort zone, but I don't think I should get to speak for anyone other than myself.

GC: How do you feel about out trans people choosing to become parents? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think everyone deserves a family, per se, but I do believe everyone should have the right to not be sterilized or prevented from having or keeping custody of their biological kids. We don't take people's kids away from them unless they've already proven themselves unfit.

Like all people, an aptitude for parenting is something that needs to be assessed case by case. Abusive people hide in every conceivable demographic.

That is true. I think everyone should be evaluated individually. There are certainly trans TRAs out there who would be terrible parents, but I don't think they're necessarily any worse than non-trans TRAs. After all, most of the cases of famous transitioned children come from married, heterosexual parents. I worry much more for Coy Mathis and Kai Shappley than I do for the children of Thomas Beatie, who seem to be living typical suburban lives.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We don't have to use their preferred pronouns, though. We can just avoid pronouns at all. I'm not saying it's a perfect solution, but if we want to meet TRAs in the middle, it seems reasonable to give them that at least. I'm not talking in society at large, just on our debate sub.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi Barbie, it's good to see you! Yeah, it's kind of disappointing. There's no activity I'm interested in on Saidit except for this one sub. Often days will go by without me clicking to check what's happening here. It was so much easier on Reddit because there were many subreddits I followed.

Oh well, maybe Elon Musk will purchase Reddit and restore all our old subs. Wouldn't that be great? A person can dream.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's good to hear. What do you think the age limit should be?

To what extent does the activism of AGP transsexuals shape transsexual politics? by nausicaa in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Almost all of it comes from the first group. I don't think the AGPs give a shit about HSTS transsexuals. Any move old-school transsexuals make towards caution or moderation is condemned. Look at how hated Blaire White and Buck Angel are for their dissenting views.

GC: What is/was your opinion on r/FemaleDatingStrategy? by SnowAssMan in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was discussed on several threads:

https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/83233/the-fds-podcast-hosts-are-going-in-on-reddit-s-tim-supermods

https://ovarit.com/o/Radfemmery/83199/female-dating-strategy-exits-reddit-due-to-anti-women-and-anti-lesbian-policies

https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/83494/this-post-comments-got-reported-before-fds-pre-emptively-moved-from-reddit-now-t

I don't have strong feelings about the move, although it's sad that Reddit is losing yet another dissenting voice. I never participated there and think that many of their discussed strategies are sexist and not feminist, but at least the sub encouraged women to have standards and not allow pornsick men to run roughshod over them. They were also anti-porn and anti-kink, and you can't find that in most other places online.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Would you agree on an established age limit for cross-sex hormones?

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eh, maybe, but I don't think so. It's never a lost cause as far as I'm concerned. If we can get QT posters to question what they're being told, we might at least prevent negative things happening to some people in those circles.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

GC was never required to use their preferred pronouns, though. Just to avoid the ones our trans posters didn't like.

It makes sentences awkward, but it is doable.

What do you think about what’s happening in Texas by Heimdekledi in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would rather they go after the doctors who are giving drugs to and performing surgeries on underage children.

There are two types of parents. Parents who are blindsided by a teenager's trans announcement, and parents who are actively transitioning very young children. Some parents in both camps may be well meaning, but many parents in the latter camp are primarily interested in establishing a cross-sex identity for their child and medicalizing them as soon as possible. If they are procuring drugs and surgeries for their children in Texas or elsewhere, I think they should be held accountable. But I would rather see the hammer fall on the doctors who are facilitating this. The parents are not performing these surgeries or prescribing these drugs themselves.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs on Twitter are far, far worse. I don't think that's in question. But I do believe the rules of our sub should be upheld. It's not okay for GC posters go around calling QT posters their biological sex pronouns or referring to them as "a man" or "a woman." If we can't even refrain from doing that, you can't blame QT for not wanting to stick around. I'm not saying anyone has to lie. That's why "natal male," "natal female," and "they" were considered acceptable compromises.

Worried19, you may not want to hear this, but QT have made quite clear they are NOT interested in debate. It was QT who got the old sub banned. They were the ones who celebrated the ban and chose not to come over here.

I only recall one former QT regular who was happy about the ban. Several of our trans posters were upset by it. We had trans moderators, too. I'm not saying all QT people are happy to debate. Most probably won't engage with us. But some will. And not everyone who arrived on the old sub QT or QT-leaning stayed that way.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not that GC people are "too rational," but that some women are very blunt and don't try to cushion their words to spare the feelings of QT.

I was thinking more of Ovarit. A lot of women see it as a place to vent, for better or worse. However, I believe this sub should be focused on discourse and debate.

This is just a GC sub, with a primarily GC demographic, so I'm just talking about things GC do.

And that's fair. We are almost completely GC, so it makes sense to address things that might be holding back the QT demographic from participating. Honestly, I think what really killed us was getting banned from Reddit. There are thousands of QT people there, and dozens or maybe even hundreds who were willing to debate with us. Very few here on Saidit. I don't think most QT people know we still exist. I don't believe it's so much the behavior of GC that stymies participation as the change in venue. But good debate does require GC to think about how we can most effectively impart our message.

If you are mostly on the QT side, please feel free to stick around! We could use more of you guys for sure.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think people here are generally mean?

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because I'm GNC, and I'm concerned in particular for girls who are like I was and the GNC women who have all but disappeared from society. Everyone is at risk, but GNC women are at special risk. I'm talking about women who are masculine. Picture butch lesbians. It feels like we masculine women specifically have been targeted for extermination. There are almost no female GNC public figures under 40 left. Even butch lesbians as old as k.d. lang have been lost. Feminine girls and women are also at risk, but at least they still exist. They haven't had their entire historical record wiped and posthumously transitioned. They haven't seen all their peers and current cultural figures disappear. It is quite a different problem if you yourself are a young GNC woman and you have seen literally every GNC friend or ex-girlfriend transition, as some have. One woman on Reddit or Ovarit (can't remember which) posted that all 11 of her exes had transitioned. To me, that feels like a cultural genocide is taking place. It's not literal murder, but those women's minds and bodies are altered beyond recognition, and the rest of society pretends they were never women or girls to begin with. If you are not personally GNC, you may never understand how this feels.

I think you are reading too much into the "honey" thing. It's a common saying I reached for, and it's not gendered. Basically, my position is "don't be a dick." Don't hurl insults or threats or abuse at people. I don't think any of the male people you mentioned have done that except Trump, and I'm not familiar with some others you listed. The QT side gets away with such abuse online because they somehow have convinced people that their bad behavior does not exist. They've successfully hidden it or convinced all the good liberals that mean conservatives are making it up.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

QT should be held to the same standards. If we want this place to be for genuine debate and discussion, then both sides should be civil. We shouldn't tolerate rudeness from either one.

And, yes, obviously QT on places like Twitter are objectively far worse. How does that give us license to act like that right back on the debate sub? How random assholes are acting on Twitter has nothing to do with what conduct we should expect from each other here.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It was even more of a problem on the old sub, but I agree, a lot of GC women are very "facts don't care about your feelings." Which is true, of course, but even if you don't care about making friends or having true discourse, it's still easier to catch flies with honey. If you want someone to talk to you and consider your perspective, you can't be going 100 miles an hour in the opposite direction. I was often told this is "tone policing" women, but honestly, the same holds true for men. I know a lot of women feel pressure to be nice, but you can not act like a dick and still be strong in your position. Not wavering in your morals and ethics or belief system does not mean bowing down. It just means being genuine and interacting in a respectful manner even with those you adamantly disagree with.

2.) They're rude because this is the only place they can be, so they're allowed to be (but also they aren't rude, you're just stupid.)

Honestly, I get the need to vent. There are certain topics that make me very upset and depressed. But you can't just be venting angrily all the time. It's not a productive use of energy.

I looked at what GC people say, and... yeah, mostly it's "they're disgusting narcissistic degenerate criminals who live to rape and masturbate to violent porn". Hell, the top bullet to most "guide to peaking people" usually starts with "make sure to tell people the transes are doing it for sexual pleasure and they'll rape you as soon as they can get you alone".

Honestly, I think this is overstating it a bit, but there is a certain segment of the GC population who just go on and on about sex offenders and AGP and stuff like that. Of course it exists and is an important issue, but I think they forget that over half the trans population these days is actually natal females and that doesn't even apply. And then they completely forget about the natal male HSTS transsexuals and the transitioned male children. Sometimes on Ovarit, I'm like, can we chill about the trans women just a bit? Frankly, unless it's involving prisons or sports or safeguarding in general, I rarely even think about them. My concern is really for minor children of both sexes and GNC women and girls.

So I agree with you for the most part, but many QT people refuse to argue in good faith. That can also be maddening. The old sub was particularly prone to fights. Safety and employment concerns are also very real for many GC women. On the old sub, there was occasional doxxing. One QT member reported a GC member in New Zealand for child abuse and tried to get her kids taken away from her. There are unhinged people out there. Several women have lost their jobs for being gender critical. So it's not like all the QT people are nice and innocent. There are bad people out there, although I continue to believe that most pro-trans and trans people are decent. The professional activists and Twitter warriors may not be, but ordinary people often still are.

I'm totally all in for respectful discourse. I don't think of this sub as a place to "own" anyone. I would love for us to be able to have conversations and friendships.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I definitely don't disagree that women can be perverted to a terrible extent as well. And you should never assume that a woman is "safe" merely because she's a woman. But at the same time, there's a reason that many moms tell their kids that they should look for a woman to help them if they ever get lost. I think the chances of Ruggles or any other natal female getting into this line of work to specifically prey on others is very low. Not non-existent, but low.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Paraphilias are much more common in males, for whatever reason. Women can have fetishes and of course they can be sex offenders, but it's less likely.

I just pointed that out because people would be more likely to suspect a male person of having sinister reasons for getting involved in the problem of sexual assault. Of course not all of them, but the chances of a natal female getting involved in that line of work for evil intentions is much less likely overall.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I get what you're saying about wanting to talk to a certain type of woman for your own comfort, but at the same time, I don't think GNC women should be othered. We're just as much female as feminine women are. We just don't conform to femininity. We don't need different bathrooms or locker rooms or therapy groups. We're women, too.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, of course no one should be excluded from scrutiny or safeguarding. But natal females are almost certainly not going to get involved in sexual assault prevention for fetishistic reasons. The potential for concern would be different with a biological male.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, but I don't think it's fair to assume Ruggles has a bad motivation here. Lots of trans natal females have experienced sexual abuse. Someone can be totally wrong on the trans issue and still have genuine concern and empathy for victims of assault.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You think GNC women should not be involved in helping survivors? That seems very restrictive. What about GNC women who feel more comfortable talking to other women like them? If I were assaulted, I would not be comfortable talking to a feminine woman about it.

GC: What is wrong with trans people working in sexual violence prevention? by Genderbender in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm struggling to see anything wrong with it. Sexual violence happens to many different populations. Ruggles is quite obviously a natal female, so there should be no concern about sinister motivations of any type. I don't see how Ruggles being transgender impacts on the ability to do the job. I would assume Ruggles may also be a survivor, since trans natal females are at high risk themselves. Even if not, I'm sure Ruggles has empathy for victims. It would be one thing if Ruggles was championing BDSM or something while promoting this job, but I didn't see any mention of that in the article.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I mean, they did debate. I'm not saying they had convincing arguments, but there was plenty of debate and discussion.

And hey, the sub did have positive outcomes. It ended up peaking people. It helped peaked me. I was way more QT when I started posting there. I think it also helped at least one person detransition.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good to hear that. If I ever join Facebook, I will check you guys out.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because this is a debate sub. It's not a GC-only space like Ovarit. And we don't have to use their language. All that's ever been required is to avoid biological sex pronouns for posters who don't identify as their sex.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I appreciate u/Genderbender continuing to try, but if there's only one active QT person, it does put a damper on things.

Maybe someone with a Reddit throwaway account can try to entice people over.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

But that never stopped them on Reddit. They always wanted to debate when we were over there. Granted, many did not stick around long, but at least they made the attempt. And we did have QT regulars who were in it for the long haul.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the main problem is that QT people aren't even lurking. If you look at our demographics poll, they're not here:

http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/pfipfo/gcdebatesqt/view

I appreciate you trying to drum up interest! But I just don't know if anything will entice more QT people over. I agree that we do need strict rules about language. Misgendering is something that is obviously going to turn off QT people from even attempting to participate. That rule needs to be strictly enforced.

Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't realize there was a group there. I'm not on Facebook, though. I value my privacy too much for that. Do people there participate under their real names? Seems like it might be dangerous for GC people.

Ovarit by FuckTheHypocrites in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I do. Do you still need one? Just let me know.

Looking for an active community, does anyone have a link to the discord server? by Luminie in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, there. Welcome. I'm also from the old sub. This place is not as active as Reddit, but we still do have some activity. I believe there is a discord server, but I don't know it. Someone else will probably chime in with that soon.

Ovarit is very active! Let me know if you want an invite code.

Announcement: new mod by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How do we get QT posters? I miss them. The sub is an echo chamber otherwise. We never had any lack of QT on Reddit, but it seems like so few of them are here. They're not even lurking, according to our demographics poll. There's got to be some way to recruit them to join.

Announcement: new mod by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Welcome, u/beris! I don't think I've seen your posts before, but it's nice to meet you.

"FLEURISTA" presents: Thank You- A Retrospective of Commonality, Connection & Changing Minds (Art exhibition featuring GCdebatesQT) by Fleurista in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, wow. I knew you were working on something, but I didn't realize it was this extensive. It looks really cool. Congratulations!

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think testosterone is generally harder on the body than estrogen for both males and females?

I know for sure it's worse for females, and evidence bears that out.

The litany of health problems suffered by those who represented the German Democratic Republic (GDR) in Cold War-era competitions was laid bare during the Berlin doping trials between 1998 and 2000 in reunified Germany. Hepatitis, heart disease, liver tumors, and liver cancer were among the consequences. Women who received injections or ingested synthetic testosterone also had physical side effects such as acne, deepened voices, excess growth of leg hair and pubic hair, and enlarged clitorises. Some female athletes gave birth to children with club feet or other defects.

https://globalsportmatters.com/health/2019/11/07/ex-east-german-athletes-struggle-with-health-problems-due-to-the-consequences-of-ped-taking

And then to see doctors casually putting 12 year olds on testosterone for life! It's insane. The negative health effects don't disappear just because the female person in question does not want to be female.

https://www.transadvocate.com/ask-matt-do-trans-men-die-young_n_8713.htm

The author of the above article was dead from heart failure a year after writing it. And Kailey was only on testosterone in adulthood, not since middle school or high school. Now that research is actively being suppressed, I fear we won't know the true outcome of transition for natal females for many more decades.

QT: Why should "gender identity" be enshrined in law when you can't even define it? by BiologyIsReal in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

We need more QT posters!

Look at our demographics poll:

http://www.polljunkie.com/poll/pfipfo/gcdebatesqt/view

Both: How do you feel about the terms "female man", "male man", "female woman", and "male woman"? by comradeconradical in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Too confusing, plus TRAs don't want compromise. It's their way or the highway. They don't want to hear "female men can get pregnant." They will only accept "men can get pregnant."

what is "social dysphoria"? by ywnbawfan2 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was never physically dysphoric, but I've experienced what I guess would be termed "social dysphoria" since I was 3 years old. I'd define it as intense distress over conforming to gendered norms. For example, a tomboy might hate wearing a dress. But a socially dysphoric girl would be distressed to the point of depression or suicidal feelings.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think I've ever used the term "gender critical" offline. Maybe I've mentioned it to my partner. My main issue is that it seems like these topics rarely come up in my daily life. My social circles are very un-woke, and so is my workplace. If I came out at work, I would only be stating what at least 90% of my coworkers also believe. I'm sure they believe it for religious or traditional reasons, not for feminist ones, but the end result is the same.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Makes sense, especially if you have a very QT social circle.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Damn, you know society is in a bad way when actual transsexuals are afraid to speak out for fear of getting cancelled.

I can understand, though. I wouldn't risk my job if I were in your position either.

Both: Where do you see the gender wars in 10 years? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right, but I mean we aren't going to have police or security guards stationed at bathrooms. I just think this particular issue is a lost cause. Even if the GC side ends up winning overall, we may lose this particular fight.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Have you thought about coming out on social media?

I think I might actually come out to my guy friend. J.K. Rowling is in the news again this week, so it seems like a good time to talk about her.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True. I hope anyone who comes out on social media is mindful of that.

I almost wish I had social media so I could come out there, but all I've got is here, Ovarit, and Reddit, and I'm already out on these platforms.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What about wearing a gender critical symbol or posting something that is subtly GC on social media?

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for all the information. From what I've gathered, it's much more dangerous for natal females to be on testosterone vs. natal males to be on estrogen, so perhaps that's why they don't monitor you quite as closely. I hope everything stays stable for you as far as that's concerned.

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know GC people spread around horror stories of trans men's bones dissolving and testosterone putting them in wheelchairs,

I was thinking more of cancer and vaginal and uterine atrophy. I think the bone density problem is more of an issue with kids who have been on puberty blockers or people who have no estrogen production at all. I certainly hope you remain healthy, and I'm glad doctors are monitoring you. Do they just watch your testosterone levels, or are there other tests? How do you know if there's a problem developing with your uterus?

I don't consider transitioning to be anything close to "what society want", it's pretty obvious that I'd be treated better and respected more if I had not transitioned

Really? Surely you must pass 100% as a guy. I wish I could. I know I'd be treated a million times better by society. As it is, I pass as a guy only if people aren't looking too closely, and then when they realize I'm female I'm looked as some kind of GNC freak. I wish I could blend in, but that's obviously not in the cards. Do you really not think you have male-passing privilege?

GC people would stop calling me delusional and perverted

Well, I don't think you're delusional. You can certainly make your own choices in life, and you obviously are aware you were born female and don't deny it. Plus natal female people are very unlikely to be transitioning for sexual reasons, so you certainly aren't a pervert. I don't think GC people would say you were? They tend to reserve that for those they consider autogynephiles.

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't hate them "because" they're breasts, I just hate the way they feel and look on my own body. Not just because people were focusing on a very "female" feature when they focus on them, but also because they were uncomfortable and I didn't like they way the looked or felt.

But surely that's connected with them being a female secondary sex characteristic, given the other steps you've taken to transition? Most natal female people if they have large, uncomfortable breasts have a breast reduction, they don't remove them from their body entirely.

I don't personally have a lot of personal investment in the sanctity of the "natural human body".

Not everyone does, of course. I don't think I have that much personal investment in it. But at the same time, human bodies are not like legos. You can't just break off pieces willy nilly. There should be some ethical and health consideration for what you're doing. Not saying a double mastectomy is definitely off limits. Some women have them to reduce the risk of breast cancer, like Angelina Jolie did. In the end, adults can make their own decisions, but I also think the medical establishment should adhere to certain standards.

Both: What do you think of Gender Critical Coming Out Day? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's a good idea, although it's already apparent that the mainstream media wants to twist it into something negative.

Not sure if I'm planning to come out to anyone, although I guess this would be a good day to find out where my gay guy friend stands on the issue.

Both: Do you believe there are sexual components to masculinity and femininity? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ha, 4 months late, but I'm finally responding.

I don’t see this as thinking the female sex is inferior. Aggression does not mean better.

If one sex is aggressive towards the other sex, and that sex is presumed to enjoy being subordinate to them, that's inferiority. I don't see any way around that.

Women's Sexual Fantasies – The Latest Scientific Research

What do I make of this? Trauma from patriarchy, porn, physical abuse, sexual abuse, and childhood or adolescent exposure to inappropriate media.

Everything that is natural is not necessarily a moral good. I think that’s one of my starting points.

Sure, we would both agree on that. I just disagree that it is in any way natural for girls and women to want to be dominated and abused.

Specifically the straight crossdresser community is very thin. The community is very androphilic. It is often very based around sex with men and other gnc men. That’s super awkward as a straight man not attracted to other crossdressers. Online I got a lot of attention from men, even after saying I’m straight. There are a lot of assumptions. There can be an assumption that a straight crossdresser is a liar. Back to that pattern of gnc men being either gay or perverts.

Huh, that's interesting. Do you think the straight crossdresser community has been adversely affected by the increasing popularity of transition? I was under the impression the majority of crossdressers were straight, while most drag queens were gay. But maybe crossdressers have fallen by the wayside. Like Eddie Izzard. He used to be just a regular transvestite. Now he says he's trans.

There is a common refrain of “don’t let your crossdressing/sexuality” become your whole identity and I can see the good reasons and logic for that. But then you suppress and end up being a person that “springs” it on others. You drift into the closet only to find yourself around people who are not accepting. I realise now I ought to have placed it more central to my life. I accepted it when I was very young but that acceptance became internal and not external enough.

Do you think you would prefer a world where you could crossdress 24/7 and have it be totally accepted? Or do you prefer it only coming out in certain scenarios that you are able to preselect for? It sounds like it's more than a casual thing for you, but society doesn't allow you to express it.

Where I do find it more acceptable is the kink community, the fetish clubs. That is where crossdressing is more than tolerated, a straight crossdresser has a place not as part of gay culture but as a person outside sexual norms. There are also women there who appreciate gender non conformity in men and relationships.

I can see that. I have a hard time thinking about fetish clubs without feeling a sense of terror about the people involved in them. But I suppose for those who feel cast out from regular society, it would feel more like a refuge.

There are certainly women there who are dressing for sex in a way that turns themselves on.

Uh, I would assume so, since it's a fetish club. If they've got a fetish for leather or latex or something, dressing like that in a sexual environment would turn them on. That's why they go there in the first place.

Well obviously I think a “failed woman” is the wrong way of looking at it. I’d see you as embracing masculinity. That does not mean you need to embrace a transman identity. But that does not mean you can disconnect masculinity from men.

I don't see why not. Masculine women have a long history. There have always been women who preferred to "live like men." There would be more of them, I believe, if femininity was not forced on girls so heavily. You have to be strong and unusual to reject femininity as an adult woman, however tolerant society is (or was) about prepubescent tomboys.

But their gender expression is connected to their sexuality? There has to be some relationship.

Not everyone has a fetish like you do. A butch lesbian woman can dress in men's clothes without it being sexual for her. As for why she's butch, you'd have to ask her. I wouldn't speak on a lesbian's behalf. All I can say is that my gender expression is not connected to my sexuality, as far as I can tell.

But a lot of this is super common. The bdsm scene in my opinion is people theatrically expressing extremes forms of this.

Right, but if someone is unable to be aroused without imagining BDSM, that's a fetish. BDSM was never considered standard. Most people, even if they have "kinks," can still enjoy vanilla sex.

I just like female appreciation of my expression. It puts me in the mood and puts the right woman in the mood.

So it's the anticipation of being seen and appreciated by women that is the draw? It doesn't sound like it's a non-sexual activity for you then. Would you go to a park wearing like a sundress even if you knew there would not be any women there to admire you in it? Have you ever been dressed in women's clothing in public and not felt even partially aroused by the possibility? No judgment here, by the way. I'm just curious.

Really that’s what a lot of gender expression is about IMHO.

Uh, beg to disagree. Most women and men are not aroused by wearing ordinary clothing regardless of their orientation.

I don’t think you’re getting how harsh men are policed on gender.

No, I get it. But it's possible to find spaces that are more open. Especially in this day and age, right? Trans women walk right down the street in most cities and towns and no one accosts them.

Even small things will be judged by even liberal people. Tolerance does not mean people don’t act on it.

Sure, but who cares if they judge? I know people judge me. As long as they're not assaulting me, they can think what they want.

A man has to constantly police himself, especially a straight man.

People on the street don't know if you're gay or straight, transgender or simply a crossdresser. If a trans woman can be herself in public, why can't you? Do you think maybe you're held back by fear of social disapproval?

I have had women grab me at times. Pinch my bum, hand down my trousers.

Right, and it's a normal thing for a woman to grab a guy's ass or grab his junk. In a consensual context, of course. It's not some weird thing. You may think women do it less often, but they still do it.

Though growing up I did lack the PIV obsession that seemed to be the norm and expected from me as a boy. I wasn’t obsessed with sticking it in. Is that relevant? I still don’t know. All part of the unusual sexual behaviour.

Most guys are obsessed with sticking it in any available orifice, it seems. But you do enjoy PIV? It's not like you won't use your penis during sex?

But the women who are sexually passive?

I believe very few women are so passive that all they want to do is lie there. But even if they do, they're still enjoying stuff like intimacy, caressing, kissing, touching, and the physical sensations of sex.

By being with you he is experiencing something statistically unusual.

Sure, but do you think he's not a normal man in a sexual sense? I've asked him about this myself, actually, since I used to be so worried he would be judged negatively because of me. He says the way he sees it is that I'm a woman and he's a man and anyone who has a problem with that is just ignorant. I believe him. He's never shown any hesitance about us. I was always the one worried about what people would think.

You both sound active.

I'd say so.

I’d add rarely initiating sex but expecting it, is passive. As if initiating it, is a turn off, at the same time being annoyed if the other person does not initiate it.

Yeah, that's definitely neither of us.

I know I respond more to active pursuit than my active pursuit. It took me some time to realise this. Just not being wired the same way as the average straight man.

You like being seduced, I guess. Eh, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But at the same time, I don't get playing elaborate games. Like if I want sex, I'm not going to wait around for my partner to mention it.

That’s a wider point I’d make. I do see trans identities. I do see elements of myself as more accepted as female. But after looking a long time at the subject I remain seeing myself as a man. I don’t see myself as a woman sexually. I see myself as a crossdresser sexually. That is who I identify with no matter how good or bad that figure is. I can’t escape that.

Well, that's fair. I don't see any reason for you not to be a crossdresser. You're not negatively affecting anyone else. You're involving consenting partners. I don't think any BDSM-related stuff is healthy, but it doesn't sound like you go overboard with it. And you recognize biological reality. You're a man, even if you consider yourself a sexually unusual one.

Both: Where do you see the gender wars in 10 years? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In 2031, I believe that the backlash resulting from affirmation only policies will have effectively ended medical child transition. I think there will probably be some holdouts who socially transition their children, but it will be much harder to put children on puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones or perform surgeries on them. I pray that will be the case. I also believe that the wave of ROGD will end and we will go back to at least pre-2015 levels of female transitioners.

I'm not sure what will happen with the rest of the issues, but I do believe trying to integrate natal males into women's sports and women's prisons will have turned out to be an untenable position. I believe organizations may develop workarounds, such as all trans wings in female prisons, or trans sports leagues. The bathroom issue I believe is long lost. There is simply no way to effectively police that. I believe it will end up in trans activists' favor.

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For me, there is no "reconciliation", there is no time I wanted my breasts. I remember wanting to scrape them off with a wood rasp from the moment they grew in 20+ years ago.

I never wanted mine either. I think a lot of people don't. But they just grew there, and after a period of alarm, I got used to them. There really wasn't any choice. Do you think there was ever a chance you could have become reconciled to them? Like if you'd been alone on a desert island, do you think your breasts would still have been a cause for hatred? I wonder about the origins of intense dysphoria.

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm glad you don't regret it. I assume you're also on testosterone? Have you had any complications from that? Do doctors have to monitor you pretty closely? Feel free not to answer if any of my questions are too personal.

I don't know if it's just a natural body mapping since we don't really have a lot of articulation/use of that area, so there isn't much sensory change to adjust to

I've heard that a lot of people come away from that surgery with no sensation, like their entire chest is just numb or a dead zone. Do you still have sensation in your chest and your nipples?

I was always extremely GNC and bisexual (it felt, for me, all connected - I didn't know why bodies had to be man/woman, why sexuality had to be oriented to man/woman, why my clothes and hair and presentation had to be man/woman ect. The more "pick and mix" I could be, the happier I was.)

I struggle to understand it also as a GNC person. I just consider my body my body. It's the one I got born with. But I don't feel like I have to align my body with what society wants. Surprisingly, for whatever reason, I have never hated my body. I suppose my rage was directed outward.

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for sharing. I'm definitely glad you have not suffered complications from the surgery and that you don't regret undergoing it.

I'm also curious about the estrogen. Have you had any negative health problems from that over the years? Do doctors monitor you pretty closely for life for potential complications, or is it more "hands off" after a certain period of time?

QT: Do you regret any part of your medical transition? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That puts you in a very rare category. Metoidioplasty or phalloplasty? I'm glad you have no regrets. Have you suffered any negative health effects from the testosterone or surgeries? I've heard those genital surgeries in particular are prone to complications.

I heard Kathleen Stock on the radio saying she had an affinity with the masculine. What did she mean by this? by theory_of_this in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The cultural stereotypes associated with men, I would assume. What's considered masculine style, masculine hobbies, etc.

She's a gender critical radical feminist, so she obviously must believe it to be independent of sex.

"Transgender day of rememberence" with Biden involved. F you Biden, and f your she-her VP. by WrongToy in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, to each their own.

"Transgender day of rememberence" with Biden involved. F you Biden, and f your she-her VP. by WrongToy in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That seems very cruel to me. Suicide is a murder of sorts, of one's self, and it leaves behind other victims, not just the person in pain.

"Transgender day of rememberence" with Biden involved. F you Biden, and f your she-her VP. by WrongToy in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here. This is actually the one trans day I don't mind. Let's keep Transgender Day of Remembrance and get rid of the dozens of other pointless awareness days.

I just wish TRAs would be honest about things. Their credibility is near zero at this point. It's tough to have sympathy when you can't trust anything these activists say.

"Transgender day of rememberence" with Biden involved. F you Biden, and f your she-her VP. by WrongToy in GenderCritical

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Uh, speak for yourself. I'm not celebrating anyone's death. The TRA movement is toxic, but I don't wish death on any trans people. This kind of rhetoric can only harm our cause.

Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy? by Houseplant in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think we might both agree that trans women are not "social men," but they are still biologically male, and in the vast majority of cases, it's possible to tell that just by looking at them.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not yet. I probably should. Maybe next time I see him.

Portrait of a Detransitioner as a Young Woman by worried19 in detrans

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Archive link for anyone hitting the paywall.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I'm one of them. I'm pretty sure I would have stayed QT if they hadn't decided to go off the deep end.

Both: How would you define my sexual orientation? by theytookourjerbs in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since it seems like you have zero attraction to natal males, I'd classify you as a lesbian.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a good idea. He's not into mystery novels, so I was thinking about asking him about The Ickabog.

Everything else! by loveSloane in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey, congrats on the new baby. That's exciting.

What’s everyone watching, reading, listening to?

Rereading the Malazan Book of the Fallen series by Steven Erikson. Watching various movies on Netflix. Outlaw King was pretty good.

What’s a positive new thing happening in your life?

Eh, I'm not sure. I still feel weird from the pandemic. Like it's just dragging on forever and life is completely off track in some fundamental way. I can't adjust to this being the new normal. I started feeling better in May when things were starting to reopen and then Delta hit and everything is awful again. Is it possible to be traumatized from all this? I feel like it's going to be hard to ever get over. Which makes me feel stupid because it's not like I know anyone who has died.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sure you have peaked some people through your YouTube channel! I wish I was brave enough to have one. But I like my privacy too much.

To peak QT-leaning people, I'm not sure what that takes--perhaps something more drastic?

I think they need to be shown that there are concrete harms.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since most of your friends and family members aren't in tune with this stuff, which position do you think they would all lean?

Speaking of my immediate family, parents and siblings, I think they'd lean to the GC side. I can't imagine anyone in my family ever agreeing with things like child transition or natal males in women's prisons. But they might be more supportive on issues like public restrooms. I think right now they're just uninformed. There's no way my parents are in tune with trans topics, and my brother and sister have never mentioned it either. I'm sure they know it exists, but that it's somewhere "out there." Much like how I used to be before I really started looking into it. If anyone was going to go the TRA side, it would probably be my little sister since she's more sensitive.

Do you think that if your family were to be introduced to this stuff that they might encourage you to transition or try to convince you that you're trans?

Definitely not. I'm their daughter/sister. I know my parents assumed I was gay (before I came home with a male partner), but I don't know if it ever occurred to them that I would be trans. They met my partner in 2015 so it's obvious now that I'm not a lesbian, and I think the concept of being a gay trans man would not be on their radar at all. It's just too unusual, along with identities like non-binary.

If he's wearing Harry Potter t-shirts then I would imagine he isn't too invested in trans and QT beliefs, or at least associating with those communities or too many of those kinds of people. What do you think you would say/do to try to peak him?

Yeah, I was thinking if he was a TRA, he would have either stopped wearing or showing his Harry Potter merchandise or at least distanced himself from Rowling. I don't think he's really in the "queer" community. He had a boyfriend for a short time who he met online and has been single the rest of the time I've known him. But he's not involved in any community or activist groups. If I were going to peak him, I'd bring up Rowling. Seems like the easiest way in. I'd ask him what he thinks about her or if he knows that she's now controversial.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't mean anything negative by it. Maybe "convert" was a poor choice of words. Unless someone is already a TRA, they don't have to be converted. Or I guess deconverted since no one starts off a TRA.

GC: What do you think about the concept of peaking people? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have not yet peaked anyone except for my partner. And even with him, it wasn't like he changed his mind. He's a tolerant person, of course, but he was never a TRA.

I don't have any particular objection to the idea, but the majority of my friends and family members are just not in tune with this stuff. I think it would be weird to bring it up with them. I don't like the idea of gender ideology intruding into my family life in particular. My family knows me as female and to my knowledge, they have never doubted that.

I do have one gay male friend that I'm curious about. He's never mentioned trans issues to me, but I haven't brought it up because I don't know what he would say. I don't think he's woke. For what it's worth, he's a Harry Potter fan and hasn't thrown away his shirts or other merchandise and has never brought up J.K. Rowling. I'd be interested to get other people's thoughts. Should I try to find out his stance? Should I try to peak him?

Both: Do you believe there are sexual components to masculinity and femininity? by worried19 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

God, I knew it had been a while since you posted this, but I didn't realize it was two months. Just FYI, I haven't forgotten our conversation. Still planning to reply as soon as I've got some time.

Meta: Moderation and the rules by circlingmyownvoid2 in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't read the whole exchange, but not cool. We have these rules in place so that our trans members feel welcome to participate. I don't think it's too much to ask to refrain from calling specific members "a man" or " a woman" if they are trans.

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm sure you'd get a lot of "why would they," but I don't think you'd get very many saying "no."

However, since I don't have an actual study comprised of men's responses to show as proof, I agree it's conjecture. Understand I'm not saying you should have to use a men's restroom, only that you are entitled to. I can completely understand why you would not want to.

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Almost all men are not going to be the ones attacking you. If you ask them, "do you think a natal male is entitled to be in a men's restroom?" overwhelmingly they would say "yes."

You would be entitled to be there because it's a place for natal male people, regardless of how gender nonconforming they are.

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think almost all of them would say you're entitled to be there, but I also don't think your concern for your safety is unwarranted. That's why I support third spaces.

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think the vast majority of men would say you're not entitled to use the men's restroom?

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think the vast majority of men care. But if these are male spaces, then all natal males have a right to go in. I doubt trans women would want to, though.

GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces? by womanual in GCdebatesQT

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't agree with that at all. If it's their space, they're entitled to have a say in who is allowed to enter.