all 51 comments

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I've been following it, it leads to a much better experience with others imho. That's not to say I don't joke and fuck around with other users - it's not like the Pyramid of Debate says you can't joke and have fun lol.

But in discourse/serious conversation, it does make sense. If you run into someone who isn't willing to give you the same respect you're giving them, the conversation isn't even worth having, again imho. I just don't respond, or respond with a joke if I see people aren't willing to follow the PoD. And if they are, I actually continue our dialogue and I may teach them something new, or they may teach me something new, since we're both being respectful and are open to what the other is saying. The PoD only calls for basic respect when you're exchanging ideas, nothing more.

[–]FormosaOolong 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I actually continue our dialogue and I may teach them something new, or they may teach me something new, since we're both being respectful and are open to what the other is saying. The PoD only calls for basic respect when you're exchanging ideas, nothing more.

This has been my experience here, and it's why I stick around. I've come to understand and respect positions I didn't before, and that's amazing.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

it's why I stick around

Same, I only came here because of IP2. I stuck to IP2 only for a few months, but when I ventured out to explore the rest of SaidIt, I saw the PoD, how people were interacting with each other and began to participate myself. I used to go to Reddit for IP2, Voat for news/conversation (which seriously took a wrong turn as a website), and SaidIt became the best of all worlds. Proper debate if you want it, funny videos, and news too.

I've come to understand and respect positions I didn't before

I agree with your comment completely. I've been shown a lot here that I didn't know before, and if I had an honest question it wasn't met with ridicule or being called an "uneducated nigger", but an actual explanation.

[–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

pyramid level of parent comment (OP): name-calling

pyramid level of reply comment: counter-argument

assessment: reply comment drags the quality of discourse in an upward direction on the pyramid of debate by 4 pyramid levels.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's a scale of quality of discussion. You are "following" that "nonsense" in the sense that whatever you write, it is somewhere on that pyramid. That's all.

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

well said

[–]Froglich 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Saidit, so well.

[–]FormosaOolong 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So well said.

[–]jmichaelhudsondotnet 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

This is an ad hominem attack against the debate pyramid, or a negation or contradiction of it.

"your thing is stupid"

"no its not"

"yes it is"

"no its not"

"yes it is"

That is what nonsense is.

This guy, everything going on in the world in 2020, and he decides the debate pyramid is the thing he is picking out to go after, roflmao.

Piece of advice, rethink your life priorities, they are whack.

OR you are a shill testing the boundaries and taking the temperature of the community as part of a coordinated effort to undermine what is going on here.

Because of the general low effort and targeted, degenerate nature of your post, I frankly find it very difficult to believe your sentiment is truly felt and not a put on.

Even saying "no one is going to follow it" is obviously wrong, a lot of people, including myself follow it. Just because you dont want to or expect others not to is no reason to call it nonsense.

So everything about this post is bad, and you should rethink your life if this is what you want to say and talk about.

ALSO, as an afterthought, when you call something ridiculous and then dont even come up with any ridicule, that is just cheap and lazy.

If it is so ridiculous, make up some mockery and jokes, you know, ridicule, of the debate pyramid and show us what youve got.

Im all ears. Make me laugh about the debate pyramid, go.

[–]astronautrob 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (13 children)

Yea def posted to wrong sub but agree with the sentiment nonetheless. It just another way to exert control on another person. Some of the biggest contributors on this site, including the dude who created it, don't follow their own stupid pyramid. They follow it when it suites them and when they can throw it in someone else's face as a debate tactic, but overall it's a dumb idea. If someone is being unconstructive in a debate or just being rude, ignorant, etc., Then just stop debating with that person. Why do we need the pyramid Gestapo to come in a be daddy and mommy for us. Just stop debating. Block the person or w.e. Its super simple and puts the responsibility on the individual instead of a bug brother type authority.

[–]hydr0lyze 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (11 children)

But then we're back to being a Reddit clone, and you know how good Reddit is.

[–]astronautrob 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

How does it make it a Reddit clone?

[–]hydr0lyze 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

If mods can remove good-faith comments, then it's no better than Reddit's mod "policies"

[–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

They don't though.

[–]hydr0lyze 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Then why do you think SaidIt was even made?

[–]Hellothereawesome 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think you may have misunderstood his comment

[–]hydr0lyze 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

He was saying that Reddit mods don't remove good-faith comments, but I was thinking that the whole reason SaidIt was made was because of good-faith comment removal.

[–]Hellothereawesome 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But i think he was saying we dont need oversight here, so he was trying to keep saidit safe

[–]hydr0lyze 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)


[–]astronautrob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

100%agree with you on this point.

[–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

level of parent comment (OP): name-calling

level of reply comment: counter-argument + name-calling

assessment: the reply comment drags the quality of discourse in an upward direction on the pyramid of debate

[–]Froglich 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The pyramid of debate is a quasi-metric of the validity of an arguments content.

It's not an absolute rule.

Most people's ideas/opinions aren't founded in fact, so the philosophy that the pyramid is predicated on will go against their position(s).

If you find that the pyramid isn't an effective tool to express your position, then there's a good chance that your position is based on a questionable foundation.

You pussy. ;-)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I hope it's not an absolute rule, because sometimes I just want to post a comment, or get something off my chest. Not everything needs to be debated. What do you think?

[–]Froglich 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I hope it's not an absolute rule, because sometimes I just want to post a comment, or get something off my chest. Not everything needs to be debated. What do you think?

I strongly disagree.

Just kidding. I just wanted to get a debate started... ;-)

[–]FormosaOolong 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not meant that everything has to be debated. It's a guideline for how to relate respectfully, whether you are arguing or not.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I knda like it. I wouldn't call it the absolute truth and I also like to joke a bit, but it helps things from descending in to savagery, where people just throw insults and accusations at each other which is rather counterproductive and would make have a place to talk about things rather pointless.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I've been here for 2 months and I still have no idea what it is and how it's supposed to work.

[–]FormosaOolong 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Here is an overview, and a link to the PoD:

[–]hydr0lyze 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Time to pack it up boys, our work here is done.

[–]AntiLowEffortHuman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Bro don't you think this is the wrong sub. Anyway if one does not follow it mods will remove the offending content

[–][deleted]  (16 children)


    [–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Generally when people are chronically posting at the lowest level. IP2 has its own set of rules tho.

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    IP2 has its own set of rules tho

    There are different rules for IP2 and the rest of SaidIt?

    [–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I guess I shouldn't have said different rules, so much as they enjoy a culture of communication that doesn't respect the pyramid. After serious deliberation they were given their own platform here as long as they keep that kind of relating within their sub, and refrain from posting anything there that threatens the legal standing of Saidit. If they post low-level stuff out into the wider areas of Saidit, those users are held to the same standard as everyone else.

    So ultimately if you don't like it in there, it's up to you to not go in.

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    After serious deliberation

    Is there a record of this deliberation somewhere?

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    /u/magnora7 /u/d3rr is this accurate? can you tell us more about why it was decided to give IP2 a space on SaidIt?

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Yeah it's partitioned off from the rest of the site and they get an extra level or two of allowance on the pyramid of debate, and in exchange they're not allowed to be listed on /all or be on the front page (which is explained in the rules for saidit). They just wanted their own culture and we tried to make that happen for them without dragging down the rest of the site or just kicking them to the curb after they set up shop

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    When did IP2 join in the first place? Was it early on before SaidIt had established what kind of culture it was hoping to have?

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    ip2 joined about 6-7 months ago. Saidit has been around for 2 years.

    No it was pretty counter to saidit culture, which was pretty established early on, but IP2 wasn't openly advocating violence, and so we let them alone if they agreed to keep to their own space and not advocate violence, which they basically have done. But they don't get to have posts on /all or the front page as a result, so I think we worked out a fair compromise for everyone

    [–]gof-urself2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This guy Alpine /nine35 is a doxer, reports fake dmca's, and has multiple alts with intent to disturb the site. He is also nuts, and not worth a minute more of attention .

    [–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    admins /u/magnora7 /u/d3rr can you please clarify?

    [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    On IP2 things advocating violence are removed, the name-calling level doesn't apply as much which is why they're not listed on /all. On the rest of the site the lowest 2 levels of the pyramid of debate are typically removed after warning.

    It's a guide.

    [–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    It's a guide.

    What else influences decisions about content removal and bans?

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    The rules do:

    But the pyramid of debate is a central part of the rules.

    [–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Sorry, let me clarify: "it's a guide" implies that there are other unstated considerations which influence content removal and bans besides the pyramid itself as written. The only other considerations besides the pyramid of debate are vending of illegal materials, pornography, self-upvoting with alt accounts, and doxxing? "Guide" implies there's some other true target the guide just helps you reach, that enforcement is ultimately based on that true target.

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    The fact I said "it's a guide" means the pyramid is a guide to what types of behavior we like to see and what we don't. The consistency of the person's post history matters too. If there's a rare post that drags things downward, that's acceptable, but if all the person posts is ad-hominems then they're generally removed (outside of IP2)

    [–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If I'm reading right, it sounds like the policy you're currently implementing as admins is to remove some (but not all? why some and not others?) stuff that's at the bottom two levels of the pyramid and to ban users who primarily post bottom-two-pyramid-level comments, except on IP2 which is given special treatment.

    This seems different from what's stated in the ToS (emphasis added):

    If a person is caught repeatedly dragging discussion in a downward direction on the Pyramid of Debate, they will be removed. If a person is caught repeatedly dragging the quality of discourse in an upward direction, they're highly valued!

    When voting [...] think of the Pyramid of Debate and if the person you're voting on is moving discussion in an upward or downward direction on the pyramid.

    When commenting or posting, think of the Pyramid of Debate, and if you are raising the level or lowering it.

    These things all mention the direction, not the absolute level. It's confusing, consider what the actual policy is. Maybe you could clarify the ToS a bit so it's clear to new (and old) users what they should expect here and what kind of behavior is acceptable (and what is not)?

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    if one does not follow it mods will remove the offending content

    That isn't what's currently happening on the site.

    start of a pyramid-lowering content log

    and related, start of an admin abuse log

    [–]danuker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Oh, you'd like it to just disappear, eh? You and your garbagepeddlers can suck it!

    I use the "Friends" feature, and when I don't feel like reading crap, I read top-of-the-pyramid content my Friends post.

    [–]blowininthewind 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)