all 47 comments

[–]makesyoudownvote 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

I used to think left.

Then I used to think right.

Now I am not sure even moderates do. It's so fucked.

Culturally we have lost the ability to listen or grow. We have isolated ourselves into bubbles of like minded people and forgotten how to have heated but civil discussions.

That's what I love about saidit so far. I can argue with all the far right anti-semites and they are surprisingly better about taking it and arguing back than even the more moderate on sites like reddit.

[–]Erasmus 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The conclusion I came to reluctantly over time is that free speech is a right wing value.

Because the right believes in the idea of truth. The left believes that everything is simply socially-constructed narratives backed by power. And once you go down that path, there's no point in ever listening to your opponents, because they cannot enlighten you to what truth is if you don't even believe in it.

[–]makesyoudownvote 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I strongly disagree. Free speech is literally a liberal value. As is capitalism, freedom of religion, innocent until proven guilty, free press and anti-censorship.

It's just that the left stopped being liberal in anything but name about a decade ago.

The right is put in the position they always are of playing catchup with yesteryear's progressives. The right is arguably more liberal than the left as a result, but that's kind of overstating it.

Also I think the right obviously also relies on faith. Faith they may believe is truth, but in reality this is not any different than the faith the left has in their ideas. Just one is based on the book, while the other is based on a series of loose academic noise.

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The conclusion I came to reluctantly over time is that free speech is a right wing value.

Except when the right tries to censor you for being atheist/non-Christian, tries to make you to do things against your will, such as marriage, alimony, child support, etc., under "protecting the family unit," tries to take away things they see as "harmful" to you, or tries to force you into raising children you're unfit to raise and don't want via banning abortion. ...Which they basically did all throughout the 90s and mid 2000s.

Like a teenager, you're smart enough to understand the basics, but not get the whole picture. And don't get me wrong, I fucking HATE the woke left as much as any sane rational person. The TRUE moral and point is, both sides suck ass and you need to learn to think for yourself. One side of American politics is just always worse than the other in 15-20 year cycles. By around 2025-2030, the right will become radical and authoritarian again, just like the woke left has been since 2011's Occupy Wall Street coup.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They already have become authoritarian again. The final catalyst was the BLM riots.

[–]Mcheetah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're only saying that because you're everything stereotypical about the woke left, so feel personally attacked. Most normal people don't agree with you yet.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What are you talking about? Since when did being libright and not wanting special treatment for certain identity groups become stereotypically woke leftism?

The right radically changed after the riots. Gone are the days of free speech, limited government, free markets, and treating people equally, blind to colors and genders and any sort of identity crap. They got so tired of being falsely accused of things like racism, sexism, hating gays, etc. that they finally decided, "Hey, let's actually be that way just to piss off the libs!". I still don't buy that they're truly motivated by "bigotry", it's just cool and rebellious right now because it goes against the current establishment. An establishment they have every reason to dislike. They also now despise America, their favorite country in history only a few years ago, and the religious ones seem to be phasing Christianity out. They're their own kind of woke now, though still not quite as bad, but almost.

[–]AXXA 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well said. I often find myself spending more time encouraging people to debate civilly and rationally than I do actually debating. Being able to disagree and debate civilly and rationally is the very foundation of democracy. It's like we've almost lost the soul of democracy.

[–]makesyoudownvote 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly this. We have lost the grease of democracy. The gears are falling off as we speak as a result.

[–]DirewolfGhost 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because they do not use the censor's baton. Why are you surprised that those who have suffered banishment for freedom of words are more tolerant of words?

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They don't really have the censor's baton. If they did, I bet they would use it.

[–]DirewolfGhost 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Perhaps. Perhaps it is the nature of the baton to draw in those inclined to the sin of sadistic abuse. There are many fewer inclined to sadistic abuse found among the [insert leftwing slur here] as there is not the opportunity to partake.

[–]Rah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You can argue as much as you like and it wouldnt change the fact you are a niggerfaggot.

[–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]Musky 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I get banned from online liberal spaces for saying the wrong things, but never in conservative ones. And it's the libs who will go scorched earth on your ass if they can, digging through your history and even doxxing you.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That won't last for much longer. Conservative spaces are already starting to see value in censorship, as long as it's used against ideas they disagree with.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In my experience conservatives may strongly disagree with a person, but they're generally willing to hear the opposing side's argument.

The liberal folks typically won't even entertain conservative ideas or arguments. There's an "ick factor" to even discussing opposing views.

The woke movement generally assumes moral superiority of their views, and actually believes that the conservatives are willfully amoral, and overall bad people.

They appear more likely to surround themselves in insular groups, and are more willing to internalize alleged science "expert opinions" as concrete facts of nature.

Most have lost their faith in nature's God, and they are more likely to worship at the altar of "The $cience".

Both conservatives and liberals have their own sets of issues; particularly when they have political power. But the left is more forgiving of their criminal leaders.

For example: Obama attacked journalists far more often than Bush, and he assassinated many more by drone strikes. But Bush is the alleged war criminal.

In reality, they're both criminals.

Biden has taken corruption and incompetence to unknown extremes, but they continue to see Trump as a traitor.

My overall view is that the left is more susceptible to propaganda suggestion from their own side, so the brainwashing goes deeper.
They both brainwash, but the left is more susceptible.

Edit: Zerohedge agrees

[–]bucetao6969 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Did you know?

Leftwing media only follows leftwing news sources on twitter.

Rightwing media follow leftwing and rightwing news sources on twitter..

[–]topiary2 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly the case. We saw this especially during the scamdemic when the left burned every bridge they could.

[–]seedOilsArePoison 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Regular conservatives that aren't shills or chasing clout tend to be chill. Leftists are insane. They have been manipulated by the media and other sinister forces to be Hiterites anti-human scum.

[–]WoodyWoodPecker 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Look at the number of people banned from liberal sites and the number of people banned from conservative sites and why they got banned and you'll have your answer.

[–]Dontcaretoday 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it probably depends on how deep into it they are, but extreme leftists do seem to be a lot more common, especially online. They won't try to get along because they think they're on the side of righteousness and conservatives are basically evil. Can't tolerate the intolerant and all that

[–]BanditMcFuklebuck 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think, because of the influx of immigrants guaranteeing that the left will be in power from now on gives them the feeling that they don't need to reconcile with conservatives anymore. They really are becoming a super-majority in American society at least.

[–]Mcheetah 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The irony is that immigrants aren't retarded. And aren't going to vote Democrat just because Democrats pretend to give a shit about them and break the law to give them voting rights. Especially considering Mexican immigrants and Mexicans in general are super-conservative (family values and Christianity.)

The left already lost the moment they decided to embrace the Pedo Pill and started openly grooming children, and opposing bills like the Florida Parental Rights in Education bill and movies like The Sound of Freedom. Everyone can see them for being the pedo, child-grooming, Epstein Island fucks that they are, because they basically admitted it. Combine this with normies finally learning about ESG shit and BlackRock and we get everything being marketed as woke going super bankrupt this year, like Bud Light and all of Disney.

The Barbie movie was only a success because that intentionally HID the shitty messaging behind it, and even when people found out, it ended up being so misandrist, it came off like a satire of fourth wave feminism more than anything. Aka, "unintentionally based" to where the antagonist, Ken, became a living role model and meme.

Post-COVID caused the radical left to fuck up one too many times. Now the question is, will guys like DeSantis fuck things up once the right regains some power in society. ... Probably.

[–]Alienhunter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think most people tend to value, not agreement per say, but harmonious existence. I think this is true of most people of whatever political persuasion. There isn't much reason to bother rocking the boat and causing strife amongst your neighbors when there isn't anything real at stake for example.

I think the problem is social media leads people to be exposed to more radical opinions and the "everyone who disagrees with us is actually evil" types that basically consider any deviance of opinion to be apostasy. There are these people of all political persuasions again, and the dynamics of how online communication works along with just the general reach of insane ideas being farther than normal ones simply because things that are divisive go much farther online.

IRL it's a short term strategy that won't last people long. I've known black people who freaked out in otherwise non-political groups because some radical online stuff infected their thinking and made them think everyone who is white is some KKK member out to get them enslaved again, when the reality is most people don't give a fuck at all one way or another what their race is. Also seen plenty of white christian types go all in on that kind of politicized christian zealotry which is just as braindead as the wokesters, was funny with Trump since he was a bit crass he was hated by these types for not being a "true christian" until he won the nomination then they did a 180 and he was god's chosen president and you're a demonic satanist democrat if you criticize him at all.

So I dunno, I think there's a bunch of crazy idiots of all political persuasions. Once someone starts believing the propoganda thoughtlessly it warps their perception of the world so that everything is a conspiracy out to get them. So they no longer want to attempt to get along with people who they think are totally against them and their way of life.

[–]Yggdratruth 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I would say right-wingers. But there's a lot of toxicity on both sides.

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

EXACTLY! This very site shows how right-wingers can be just as obnoxious as the woke. I tend to ignore idiots on all sides though, which makes it easy for me to avoid groupthink, unlike so many others who "pick sides."

[–]dramasexual 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

As what can loosely be described as a moderate, I find the right much, much more tolerant of dissenting opinions. Wingnuts on both sides are generally intolerable, but I find that the average everyday reasonably moderate right-wing person much easier to get along with than the average everyday reasonably moderate left-wing person.

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw an interesting video on this, and the short explanation why is, those who have the most societal power, tend to also usually have the most extreme political opinions.

Since Silicon Valley, Hollywood, the mainstream news media AND Washington are all far-left right now, they allow for more extremist opinions like assassinating Trump, forcing vaccines and LGBT agendas on people, and outright grooming children and trying to sleep with them. When Trump was in office, these extreme opinions were less tolerated (although the left still controlled all other theaters of society, even if The White House wasn't one of them.) This is why the troons and pedophiles have been out-of-pocket ever since 2021; they basically see themselves as the "mainstream" now and untouchable, especially the troons and pedos.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have found the same thing, but unfortunately it's becoming less true than it used to be.

[–]passionflounder 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If the herd behaves as intended, no one. A main part of the game that's being played is to endlessly divide us and distract.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Prior to 2020 BLM riots: Conservatives for sure

Now: They seem about equally unwilling to get along and demand absolute conformity.

[–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I think you're asking the wrong question. There are people who are willing to get along and people who want nothing to do with those who think differently. I don't know that the ones willing to get along specifically belong to political groups. And I don't know that there are that many who are willing to discuss their differences in good faith. We're lucky to have found a little island of such people here.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

There was definitely a difference until about 3 years ago. I rarely had issues with "right-wing" groups, they were generally tolerant and not so dogmatic, but I can't last a single second in leftist spaces without getting cancelled and banned.

After the BLM riots though, it's about the same. Even now there's still a difference, but it's much narrower. I get slightly more grace from the people here for being a tranny than I did on reddit for being a "bigot", but they still wouldn't spare me if they had power.

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Legitimately: No one cares if you're trans. We really don't. And this is speaking towards those people in general. We're just not going to let you fuck-up all of society for your insecurities and feelings. Most people, especially on the center-right, tend to have a "you do you" attitude, as do I. But no, we're not doing the pronoun shit, letting you rape women in restrooms, or compete in women's sports without a fight. You get EQUAL treatment, not SPECIAL treatment.

And the moral of the story is: EVERYONE in society who isn't rich or a hot woman, gets treated like shit. Surprise! If you (trans people, in general) don't accept equal treatment and feel entitled to special treatment and trying to shame straight men into being homosexual for you or using she/her pronouns to describe "dick owning people," you will never be accepted in society and people's intolerance towards you will continue to grow even further.

This is why I don't accept your belief that the right is as intolerant as the left. Because people in the middle and right, have gotten fed up with losing their rights to the super minority in the Alphabet crowd, for the past eight years, at this point. We saw what just happened in England with the "Lesbian Nana" cunt police officer abusing her power. It's not "intolerance" at this point, it's frustration.

And I know it's not trans people in general, just like most women aren't feminists and most black people aren't BLM, but frankly speaking: Too many of y'all are fucking immature assholes. And not enough are the Blair White "moderate" mature respectful types. Which, considering the mental health state involved here, I guess shouldn't be surprising.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Frustration leads to intolerance. Intolerance leads to anger. Anger leads leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side. Wake up, this is a psyop. What if I told you that the Republic was now under the control of a dark lord of the Sith, the one behind everything including the culture war?

Already you've made tons of idpol assumptions about me and what I believe. That's the problem. I don't think it's fair to let MtFs compete in female athletics, I don't like pronouns, I don't like any of that crazy stuff, but in your mind it doesn't matter what I'm doing, I'm guilty of it all purely by association. This is the same game as "you're white, so you're a slaver". And you know how those people ended up.

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Frustration leads to intolerance. Intolerance leads to anger. Anger leads leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side.

No. Don't make excuses. And I'm well aware the Jessica Yaniv's and George Floyd's of the world are just being used as pawns and tools by the Klaus Schwab's and Bill Gates' of the world to Divide and Conquer; I'm just saying too many of them are all-too-happy to be used as pawns by power-hungry authoritarians.

Already you've made tons of idol assumptions about me and what I believe. I'm guilty of it all purely by association.

No. I already said this is about transwomen in general. And not enough "moderates" like you're claiming to be, speak out against the Jessica Yaniv and Kaitlyn Jenner types and instead, would rather play the victim despite being protected by all of the major institutions in society right now. You're letting the bad apples paint all of you in a negative light, which means more and more people are going to start hating you all, not just "the conservative right" like you claim.

I'm apolitical for the most part and I already don't want to deal with any transpeople in real life because they're more than likely to be the whiny, asshole "RESPECT MY PRONOUNS" types than the Blaire White types who don't expect the world to wipe their ass for them. No one's got time to deal with that immature shit. It's the same way moderate, center-leaning women don't speak out against the batshit insane feminists dumping their men over not capitulating to the fucking Barbie movie, then complain when men don't want to approach them for a date anymore. Ain't exactly "silence is violence," but it IS "evil triumphs when good men stand around and do nothing."

And not that it matters, but for the record, I only use pronouns if they can actually pass. I know Blaire White isn't really a woman, but they're 5'5" and 90% pass for the most part, so I won't feel weird calling White a "she/her," as opposed to doing it to some 6'2" dude with linebacker's shoulders, a boxer's jaw, and a 5 o'clock shadow, like Caitlyn Jenner or Chris-Chan, which are clearly fuckin' dudes. I'm not going to lie to my eyes and brain for some crazy person going through an identity crisis. At best, I'll only address one of those types by name and avoid all pronouns altogether, but I'm not calling a linebacker in a dress and wig a "she/her" and placing him in the same gender I'm sexually and romantically attracted to. THAT is literally what "tolerance" is. But so many on the woke left want to try to force "acceptance" onto people through the law, especially in the UK and Canada right now, which is only going to lead to more hate and resentment in the end, even against "moderates" like yourself.

So no; don't even try that Star Wars bullshit and excuses. You know why people don't tolerate trannies in 2023 and it ain't cause of "transphobia."

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's exactly what I said. But you don't recognize that because you see me as part of a group rather than an individual.

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No. It's because you were whining about being a perpetual victim and thinking the right "bullies" you for no reason.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know why they do it. But it's not fair to convict me of other people's actions.

[–]ShoahKahn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The "left-right paradigm" is how you keep the goyim in-fighting and forever enslaved.

[–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Democracy is how the "People of currency" blame the public for the their crimes.

[–]twolanterns 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the people they enable want to run everyones lives

historically they killed millions to take that power

[–]Mcheetah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As someone who used to be liberal until 2015, yes, I believe most conservatives are nicer, more tolerant people than modern-day "liberals." I'm on neither side of politics now, but I agree with most conservatives on most things, except the stupid abortion/pro-life shit. But at least I can respectfully disagree with conservatives on the whole "baby murder" shit, as they call it, and explain how reckless unfit mothers shouldn't be forced by government to take care of children they won't be able to raise and won't love, who'll eventually end up dead by neglect or suicide anyway. I can't even disagree with modern "liberals" on me not wanting to fuck men who call themselves "women," without them thinking I'm a "fascist" and pulling out one of their Istaphobe buzzwords. I'm so glad Reddit started banning everyone so Saidit can become more well-known.

[–]GuyWhite 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Being a nice guy has gotten conservatives into trouble. ‘Cause nice guys finish last.


[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just look how the left treat each other with their purity spirals.