all 16 comments

[–]OsoFeo 5 insightful - 1 funny5 insightful - 0 funny6 insightful - 1 funny -  (2 children)

My thoughts are that the totality of the subjects she addresses (i.e. the ones you list) cannot be properly understood from the worldview we currently hold as 21st Century Westerners. First of all, in order to travel from distance planets, or even to exist in hidden regions of our own planetary sphere, "extraterrestrials" would need to violate many of the laws of physics as we understand them. This makes them indistinguishable from so-called interdimensional beings, which in turn cannot be distinguished from jinn/fae, spirits, demons, etc. Throw in the weird liminal region between extraterrestrial phenomena and occult evocation practices and you open up even more questions about our worldview vis-a-vis time and space.

To address all this, as well as some of the topics we have been exploring at the old hangout, I think we need to come to terms with what I am starting to call the eternal now. Time itself is an illusion set up by some of the very "alien" beings that are the subject of Linda Moulton Howe's work. It may very well be the case that the concept of "extraterrestrial" is merely a projection of our own limited understanding of how the metaverse really works, and is not tangibly "real" in the sense that we generally take for granted.

Accounting for all that, well, yes, I agree with many of the things she says. But I understand them differently because of my acceptance (though limited understanding) of the eternal now.

[–]Dragusha 4 insightful - 1 funny4 insightful - 0 funny5 insightful - 1 funny -  (1 child)

I agree with a lot of what you say and especially the occult evocation practices. What a lot of people don't know is that when Alister Crowley and his little band of miscreants started dabbling into the occult they had a lot of weird incidents. One of these was if I recall a channeling with a "demon" and this demon when described was word for word what we call a grey. Big black eyes, grey sickly skin, skinny and generally off. I'm convinced these "greys" are nothing more then some sort of spiritual entity.

[–]OsoFeo 4 insightful - 1 funny4 insightful - 0 funny5 insightful - 1 funny -  (0 children)

That would be Lam.

[–]swallowtail[S] 2 insightful - 1 funny2 insightful - 0 funny3 insightful - 1 funny -  (11 children)

I forgot to mention, but was meaning to, the idea that aliens and extraterrestrials are "fallen angels". I wanted to hear from some folks who accept this idea because I have read so many comments in Linda's videos that say things like, "They're not angels but fallen angels." I don't even understand this. Does this only fit into the biblical sense? So if we accept that they are fallen angels, we also are accepting there is a one true God? If there are angels, there are demons? Are fallen angels distinct from demons?

That all seems nonsensical to me, but of course I am open to the possibilities and would love to hear someone who has a fleshed out perspective on the subject.

Also, as touched on in the other comments currently posted at the moment, there's the idea that aliens/demons/etc are physical manifestations. This is very interesting to me and I can accept the idea that the mind, consciousness, or focused intention makes it come to be. However, that doesn't necessarily exclude the possibilities of other beings being truly extraterrestrial or hidden ancient beings native to Earth and our solar system.

[–]Priest 3 insightful - 1 funny3 insightful - 0 funny4 insightful - 1 funny -  (7 children)

The quick version. (Disclaimer, writing from perspective of being a theologian so will state things you may wish to question).

God made everything, including angelic orders. Fallen Angels are those who chose to do their own thing rather than spend eternity serving/worshipping God.

Demons, in rabbinic traditions, came about this way:

Some fallen angels/sons of God slept with daughters of men and their offspring were the legendary warriors called the nephilim. These 'people' had human flesh/bodies but angel-esque souls. In the Noahic flood, their bodies perished but their spirit's endured and seek to either: be embodied, or oppress the embodied.

Apparitions/visions/encounters are therefore generally understood to be a property of a fallen angel, rather than a demon.

[–]swallowtail[S] 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (6 children)

Now, would these beings use technology?

[–]Priest 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (5 children)

Angels/Fallen Angels are created beings and so can interact with creation, which could include technology. Some speculate that they and aliens are interdimentional beings, and so the Arthur C Clarke line about tech and magic comes to mind.

I would suggest that an angelic being could use tech, and that a demonic could affect tech.

But ancient theologies don't talk much about iphones or spacecraft and so this is more more in the realm of speculation and personal beliefs to be honest.

[–]swallowtail[S] 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (4 children)

I would suggest that an angelic being could use tech, and that a demonic could affect tech.

What makes you suggest that? Demons are spirits with no bodies, unlike angels?

[–]Priest 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (3 children)

Angelic appearances in scripture suggest a tangibility. Outside Eden an angel stood with a flaming sword. The three angels that visited Abraham eat. Jacob wrestles with one. Daniel says they the angel closed the mouths of lions.

Other interpretations are possible, but it seems that the scriptural view is that angels can at the least interact with the physical world.

Demons, as outlined above, are the intangible essences which have survived after the physical bodies have died (drowned in the flood). This is why they seem to tend towards possession or affliction. Examples of the first would be Legion - the man who was bound by chains before being exorcised by Christ, and the demons went into a herd of pigs who then ran into the lake and drowned. The second would be the example of a boy who was thrown into danger by a spirit. A common modern interpretation of this would be that the boy had epilepsy. The conversation about the relationship between mental health and the demonic is a sensitive one. Briefly, sometimes mental health by be caused or amplified by the demonic, and sometimes it is simply physical/mental.

It seems therefore that while we take the reality of the demonic seriously that that reality is limited. A demon cannot assume a substantial form by itself, but attempts to appropriate other (already existing) forms to its own ends.

With technology, I would suggest, and this is my own speculation, that a demon could not sit at a keyboard and type a message in a forum. But it could cause a computer which is free of any malware to crash for seemingly no reason.

Hence I would apply the traditional language of possession and affliction to demonic interactions with technology.

Returning to the original idea of how this all relates to aliens or interdimensional beings, I would say that it's that aliens would be understood to be of the angelic order, rather than the demonic.

[–]swallowtail[S] 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (2 children)

Thanks for the writeup, Priest. :) Interesting stuff.

[–]Priest 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (0 children)

It's quite alright, I find it fascinating myself and it helps to articulate it to another sometimes.

Peace :)

[–]Priest 1 insightful - 1 funny1 insightful - 0 funny2 insightful - 1 funny -  (0 children)

Came across this and thought you might be interested.

There's some speculation that these "Owlmen" may be multidimensional or somehow supernatural. Plus they're dark winged figures.

IF this were angelic/demonic type activity then this would be a prime example of being Fallen Angels being seen rather than demons, precisely because of the physicality of them.

Owlmen: HigherSideChats (Youtube)

Edit: Formatting

[–]OsoFeo 2 insightful - 1 funny2 insightful - 0 funny3 insightful - 1 funny -  (2 children)

However, that doesn't necessarily exclude the possibilities of other beings being truly extraterrestrial or hidden ancient beings native to earth and our solar system.

The problem is that the definitions of "extraterrestrial" (beyond the earth) and "ancient" are based on our current (and, IMO, incorrect) view of space and time. Our understanding of space and time obviously works well enough for phenomena that we classify as "mundane". However, liminal phenomena follow a different law, and suggest flaws in our understanding.

For a scholarly view, see Hansen's The Trickster and the Paranormal.

[–]swallowtail[S] 5 insightful - 1 funny5 insightful - 0 funny6 insightful - 1 funny -  (1 child)

I would certainly agree that we have a very limited understanding of time-space. First I would say that much like we look at a fruit fly's life as so short and ours "normal", a different race of beings, with different technology, could look at our measly 100-year-lives as short and their 200,000-year-lives as "normal." With the help of technology, we can assume the lifespan of more advanced beings is basically open ended. This leaves room for massive experiments, like not only humanity on Earth, but all of Earth, or the Solar System, or maybe even our whole visible universe. It could be experimentation on already existing celestial bodies which they carefully choose, and possibly wait for eons until opportune moments, or for terraforming to take place, or it could be moving and placing celestial bodies for specific purposes. It could be crafting entire planets, much like in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, actually creating atoms, or using what is available, or it could even be creating an entire universe, whether physical or virtual. Again, none of these are mutually exclusive and, for example, there could be advanced beings more savvy then us, performing the experiment of humanity, as well as an even more advanced civilization of beings creating our entire universe.

But all I'm really getting at is timeframes, and the idea that it's all relative. What could seem like eons to us, could be a small snooze to a different being, with different biology and/or different technology. Admittedly, I'm still thinking quite linearly.

I have heard a decent amount about the possibility of time travel. If we accept that beings can not only live far into the future (essentially time traveling, as we all are, into the future), but also can travel to the past, well then things get quite weird and quite difficult for humans, so tied to our linear timeframes, to grasp. But I do sometimes feel what I call the ever present moment, the only moment, the NOW. It's a beloved feeling and thought to me, but also easily forgotten unfortunately. I do think I need to reintegrate that and have it at the forefront of my mind, because I think that is a very vital part of an accurate view of the world.

I remember seeing an interesting clip of Bashar (a channeled being by Darryl Anka) talking about instantaneous travel through time space. He explained it as if there is a vibrational signature to each point of the universe, in time and space, and if you can tune yourself, or your craft, to exactly where you want to go, you will cease to be here, and instantly be there. Something like that; I can't find it at the moment.

Please, go on, about the liminal phenomenon and what Hansen has to say.

[–]OsoFeo 2 insightful - 1 funny2 insightful - 0 funny3 insightful - 1 funny -  (0 children)

Please, go on, about the liminal phenomenon and what Hansen has to say.

It's been a long time since I read it, and since he doesn't offer any definitive statements it's difficult to characterize his message. Mostly, "it's complicated". The very liminality of the phenomena make them difficult to definitively characterize. He does talk a lot about the relationship between paranormal phenomena (including UFOs) and the "Trickster" archetype -- thus reinforcing the difficulty in grappling with the issues.

Re: vibrational signature to each point in the universe. Yes, I believe that to be a much truer representation of reality than our familiar spatiotemporal conceptualization. Several times, at the hold hangout, I've referred to the Fourier Transform as a mathematical allegory for how a frequency-based conceptualization can be equivalent to a time-based conceptualization, and perhaps (for some purposes) more powerful. Also, lately, I've been thinking about the idea of the Rainbow as being representative of the covenant between Yahweh and Israelites, how the idea of "covenant" evokes the idea of a collective agreement. I.e., our experience of this plane of reality is the result of a collective agreement to tune into specific frequencies (=colors). Outside the scope of the OP, but I think relevant to the issue of how other "beings" may be interacting with us.

[–]necaremus 2 insightful - 1 funny2 insightful - 0 funny3 insightful - 1 funny -  (0 children)

i can't deny or prove the existence of extraterrestrial beings. i think it is highly likely they exist. according to our current understanding of the physical laws, it seems highly unlikely we are (already) interacting with them - but our understanding of the physical realm is flawed.

i do not like to dive too deep into this subject. If there are extraterrestrials who do not help/harm us, but merely watch, all is good. if they do not wish to show themselves, for whatever reason, i don't want to force them. we are on our own on the path of finding truth and meaning - and i really do like to walk this path; i would like some help, i would try to overcome malicious interference and i certainly do not mind walking alone ;)