The church fathers tampered with the New Testament books

submitted by Vulptex from self.Christianity

Here is a list of suspected interpolations in Romans:

  1. 1:2-6; style, out of place, foreign concepts
  2. 1:18-2:29; style, foreign concepts
  3. 3:25-26; style
  4. 5:12-21; style
  5. Chapters 9-11; style, foreign concepts
  6. 13:1-7; seems out of place, not likely by a Jew who was constantly persecuted by both Roman and Jewish authorities
  7. Chapters 15-16; omitted by some early manuscripts

And here is a list of what was almost certainly not present in Marcion's edition:

  1. 1:2-6
  2. 1:19-2:1
  3. 2:2-11
  4. 3:2-9a
  5. 3:25-4:25
  6. 5:12-19
  7. Probably chapter 6
  8. 8:17b-25
  9. 9:4-33
  10. 10:8-11:32
  11. At least 13:1b-6
  12. Chapters 15-16

As you can see there's quite a bit of overlap between the two lists. Also, Marcion's version flows much better and doesn't contradict itself and go on tangents every 2 seconds, then return as if nothing ever happened, leaving the remainder of the passage without context. It's almost as if Marcion did NOT cut out the parts he didn't like, but instead the church fathers added them later. Especially since Marcion's edition has plenty that contradicts his beliefs. But that all MUST just be a coincidence, because we HAVE to take the orthodox fathers' word for it, because we all know they can never be wrong about anything. Right? Especially since if Marcion's shorter form is to be believed, Paul never said the following:

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Which is THE number 1 central pillar of all Christianity! Certainly the church must be correct, despite all evidence to the contrary!

All of Marcion's books show the same pattern. Also he does not have 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus at all, which are definitely forgeries. The only person who knew anything of them early on was Polycarp...who just so happens to have been one of Marcion's fiercest opponents, and close to another church father named Theophilus, to whom Luke is addressed (Luke is the orthodox edit of Marcion's gospel). Yeah, totally no sketchy business going on here. Sure.

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[–]HugodeCrevellier 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Christianity is an amalgam , to begin with.

It consists of Platonic and Neoplatonic philosophical ideas, about a pure universal consciousness, 'The One', onto which was tacked (somehow!) a mythology surrounding some primitive tribal deity, 'Yahweh'.

The two conceptions are not just radically different, they're essentially incompatible.

And yet, in Christianity, they're conflated, with Christians unwittingly(?) associating the Platonic 'The One', a universal consciousness, with the mythology of some shockingly evil tribal deity from the Middle East.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

That is not a doctrine I have found anywhere, other than Unitarian Universalists. Although certain aspects of Platonism greatly influenced later Christians (the obsession with "no non-procreative sexual acts" is Platonic, for example).

The Old Testament is not actually incompatible, but its allegorical intentions are constantly demonized so people don't see that. If you look back in history you can see how people's understandings of it turned more and more literal over time.

[–]HugodeCrevellier 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The primitive tribal deity in the 'Old Testament' is grotesque from its very inception.

Hellenism grew much more allegorical, with an interesting and useful mythology.

And Hellenists, importantly, were syncretic, accepting other cultures' own symbolic representations of the universal concepts they themselves celebrated.

One of the aspects of Judaism that made it necessarily evil is a foundational/dogmatic demand for hostility towards other cultures/religions.

This also infected Christianity, unfortunately, and Islam, condemning them all to be unethical, not to say murderous, basically by dogma.

[–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Old Testament was never meant to be literal.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Vulptex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If it had been in Marcion's version, surely it would've been cited against him. "God appointed all authority Marcion, so the demiurge is appointed by God and serves him!". But it's passed over in silence.

    It makes sense. Paul and Christians were reviled by both Jewish and Roman authorities, there's no way he'd consider them "God's servants". No, that's a later expansion by an editor. Furthermore, it's out of place; it's part of a section about doing good to your enemy, and the "render unto Caesar" fits, but the explanation doesn't. Thus I think he probably wrote: "Don't be overcome by evil, rather overcome evil with good. Everyone be subject to the authorities above him. Give to all their dues, tax to whom tax, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. Owe nothing to anyone except love for each other; because the one loving the other has fulfilled the law."